@bison

3.5% higher than a dozen or more nations, but a full 16.1% lower than the United Arab Emirates?
Doesn't sound too odious for a country that spends as much on its military as the US does.

And some corporations, like General Electric (our largest arms contractor) pay exactly zero.

What statistics like this rarely make clear is that the bulk of these taxes come from SMALL companies.

You don't think anyone like Trump pays over 35%, do you?
Estimates of his tax level are about 15%.

And once the Minimum Alternative Tax is abolished....

BTW - Before anyone is foolish enough to try to make an argument about personal vs corporate taxes, if you run corporations you don't pay yourself in a way that gets you taxed personally.
Trust me, I grew up in incorporation central, Delaware.

@Signman

Quote:

This is from Newsweek. That's not a fake news site is it? http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-prison-labor-african-americans-arkansas-622209

Was that supposed to be shocking?

I come from a State that was a slave State both before, and for two years AFTER the Civil War, even though it was part of the Union.
Where our schools, including our State colleges, were segregated until I was a child.

Black prisoners forced to work? BFD, they were criminals.

AND, alternatively, our elected official in the House of Representatives Lisa Blunt-Rochester is a black woman (and a Democrat).

So, stuff changes.

I'm supposed to blame the Clinton's for Arkansas State tradition? Please...

Last edited by iggy on 10-Jun-2017 at 01:46 AM.
Last edited by iggy on 10-Jun-2017 at 01:45 AM.

@iggy

Quote:

What statistics like this rarely make clear is that the bulk of these taxes come from SMALL companies.

Yes, this is a problem. There are many so-called loopholes in U.S. tax code that only large corporations can effectively exploit, and it creates significant barriers of entry for smaller companies.

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@bison,

Trying to change it is impossible with establishment in place. Pathetic really.

@Zylesea

Quote:

I doubt Theresa May will do the full term... She will quit in a couple of months. Thing is - when the next elections come - don't forget who is/was responsible for the mess the UK is in now. It's primarily the Tories who f*cked it up. 1st Cameron with the Brexit poll and now May with her opportunistic election.  Pride is big and important, but pride should not become a blocking stone that avoids reconsidering things from time to time. The brexit will not benefit the UK. Yet, you're not out, you still may stay.

So denying people a democratic vote on membership of a club that many people for years have felt they don't belong to or have no interest in being being part of is a mistake?

I think if you wish to lecture the British on our problems you may wish to do a bit further research. We have had a number of European treaties and laws passed through without consulting the public, Maastricht, Lisbon, the Human Rights Act. Cameron along with quite a few other parties thought this was correct to put this to the public it's called a Democracy it's something Ireland and a few other EU nations had the chance to do.

The fact that people voted in greater numbers to leave than remain in a turnout that was high than in our recent election should be respected.

As for Brexit hurting us, people who voted to leave myself included view things as an opportunity to freely trade with other countries and forge new relationships which we can't at present because it takes 27 other voices in the room to agree on anything under a one size fits all arrangement which benefit only a select few in the room.

Of course there would be a view in Germany that Brexit will be bad, it's probably to do with the realisation that a large net contributor to the EU money pot will be leaving, thus leaving Germany to shoulder more financial responsibility to bail out other EU states as and when required.

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@Zylesea

Quote:

She will quit in a couple of months

By number of elected MPs this was failure of course, but Tories still got by far the best % of votes in the last 25 years!

@outrun1978

Quote:

The fact that people voted in greater numbers to leave than remain

Less than 4 % is great majority of course...

Quote:

view things as an opportunity to freely trade with other countries and forge new relationships

Good luck, if you expect better treaties for weakened Britain, than those negotiated by 500 milion people strong bloc.

Quote:

Of course there would be a view in Germany that Brexit will be bad

Not only in Germany. I´m Czech myself and I see Brexit as bad decision for both EU and Britain.

@pavlor

Again that's personal opinion

Personally I do worry about poorer EU states under the current system, to me the EU benefits the richer members of the club who have access to a cheap supply of Labour of quite often talented individuals who can earn more working in a coffee shop or cleaning offices in a richer EU country than they would have done working as a skilled /professional worker back in their own country.

This in turn creates a huge brain drain in these countries which morally isn't right and equally when we require the skilled workers, expecting these countries to fill gaps in areas like the health service as is the case in the UK whilst we charge our own people 9k a year to train as a nurse or a doctor isn't the answer either.

To me the EU is a 1950's solution to a 1950's problem of keeping Europe together but the reality is that we now live in the 21st century with 21st century problems and we perhaps need a change of direction which many think in the UK think the EU doesn't offer

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@outrun1978

Quote:

This in turn creates a huge brain drain in these countries

In health-care yes, but other professions are less affected. Eg. I work for less than 1000 EUR/month (before taxes) and my job requires master degree and specialized knowledge. I would earn much more even as a janitor no more than 50 km from my home in Germany, but money is not all we live for.

Quote:

whilst we charge our own people 9k a year to train as a nurse

Horrible. Glad I live in country with free of charge tertialy education. Even foreigners may study here for free (if they know our language) and many of them stay and improve our GDP.

Quote:

To me the EU is a 1950's solution

Then, isn´t "splendid isolation" 19th century solution?

@pavlor

Quote " I would earn much more even as a janitor no more than 50 km from my home in Germany, but money is not all we live for. "

No and money isn't all I live for either, I too have a degree yet choose to work in an interesting profession such as Corporate Travel which pays peanuts compared to other professions which make use of my language degrees and pay a lot more

The reality is however thanks to freedom of movement quite a large number of people have chosen to take the money and settle in richer EU states with the relatively low incomes from working in menial roles in these richer EU states topped up with in work benefits.

This in terms creates a strain on local services and infrastructure which yes we can keep on building houses and schools, hospitals to accommodate but the reality is that we can't keep building on more and more whilst encroaching on green belt. There comes a point where it reaches a tipping point and quality of life begins to suffer.

As for 19th century isolation, back in the 19th century we were not isolated we had an Empire which no one seriously thinks we can re-create as a result of Brexit although the Chinese appear to be copying some of our traits from the 19th century in their exploitation of natural resources in Africa to enrich themselves.

Forging new relationships with others around the world, many of whom we have had to neglect over the years as a result of joining what was a Common Market back in 1973 not ever closer political and fiscal union in 2017, whilst re-negotiating the existing relationships developed over 44 years is a path that a majority of people (1.2 million more of those who voted) have chosen to take.

Last edited by outrun1978 on 10-Jun-2017 at 11:34 AM.
Last edited by outrun1978 on 10-Jun-2017 at 11:34 AM.

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@pavlor

And I live in a country that charges quite a lot for higher education, and disallows the discharge of those debts even in bankruptcy.
Which further, has not come to the realization that health Care is an atypical industry and cost controls via the free market don't seem to function in that environment (there is zero incentive for it).

Now I get to learn that some of the British think they will be better off in relation to their negotiating strength alone?
My, the irrepressible British ego at work again.

Only, as times have changed, that form of centrism in a global market is doomed to fail.

So, like Pavlor, I'm sitting here with my education, earning less than I might, but reasonably sure I'll be OK.

But I think the future might hold some rude surprises for a large percentage of you.
Particularly those willing to follow reckless, irrational leaders.

@iggy

Reckless and irrational could have been applied to any of the choice of leaders we in the UK faced back on Thursday.

Our political system sadly is as flawed as most other countries

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@outrun1978

Quote:

Our political system sadly is as flawed as most other countries

This does seem to be a widespread issue.
Here, the only solution appears to be hobbling our "leaders", before they do significant damage.

That seems unreasonably anarchistic to me, but when it comes down to issues of self preservation...

@bison

Thanks for the information, Ill take a deeper dive into the details later tonight when I have time.

This is why I actually enjoy this thread. It can get somewhat tense at times, but we seem to have gotten back ON TOPIC with regards to politics, and away from personal aspects.
We/I do actually learn something on a forum. Who would have thought!?

@Overflow

Yes, I think I'm coming to grasp with what we all seem to be facing, and it appears to relate to dysfunctional representation and a real disconnect between our "leaders" and the electorate.

But I hadn't really thought of this on a global scale before.
Definitely enlightening.

@iggy

Yup.

And how to connect this to the original post of this thread;

With increasing inequality and austerity; With increasing conflict levels in Middle east, africa and South America comes security concerns. Those that are on the reciving end of economic/social stress, like in Europa (and USA), or physical stress, like in the middle east; are usually smart enough to realise who is the guilty party.

Byproduct/endresult of this is a increasingly totalitarian system, that increases the desire to tighten information flow.
This manifests itself in USA with attack on the education system (public schools) and both in Europa/USA with regards to social media/internet.

So yes, Tories will negativly effect Internet and Amiga by proxy.

Last edited by Overflow on 10-Jun-2017 at 03:45 PM.
Last edited by Overflow on 10-Jun-2017 at 03:45 PM.
Last edited by Overflow on 10-Jun-2017 at 03:44 PM.

@Overflow

I could not summarize or connect that better.
This is a trend I have feared since Ronald Reagan took office, and what I once attributed to misdirected good intentions very well might be more malign than I was originally willing to credit.

http://www.abc2news.com/newsy/intelligence-officials-are-united-behind-renewing-fisa-approval

Quote:

“Even though much of the Senate Intelligence Committee hearing Wednesday focused on conversations involving the director of national intelligence, the director of the National Security Agency and President Donald Trump, for at least part of the hearing, questions centered around the issue at hand — continuing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, known as FISA. The committee was specifically discussing section 702 of the act. It lets the National Security Agency collect intelligence and communications from non-U.S. citizens outside the country. In 2012, Congress renewed the act through the end of 2017. But to keep using the program, lawmakers need to approve it again. And that's something the intelligence community really wants. "If we were to lose the 702 authority, I would fully expect leaders from some of our closest allies would put out one loud scream," said Adm. Mike Rogers, director of the National Security Agency. "They are deeply, deeply grateful to us for the information derived from 702 has saved, what they said, literally hundreds of lives," said Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats.”

One thing is the whole question of privacy. Secondly, it will probably be used far too much, which cost money. We dont have money for education, but lets waste billions to tap and store the information.