@OlafS25

Quote:

Bernie was too left for USA I assume, for western europe his views propably would be seen pretty normal but for USA he was almost seen as terrorist

I was watching Tim Pool and some other independent journalists and they were saying that in the US, Le Pen would still be seen as leftist.

Quote:

regarding England, in germany we have to sell our homes too if care is not covered by health insurance and income. In worst case you have to sell all you have before. I think too it is not fair that you loose everything at end of life, all you worked for and saved.

It's slightly better here in Wales than in England though not by much. Much of my mothers assets come from hard work and sacrifice and the fact that my father worked well past his retirement age, he cared more about providing for us than for himself.
We are partly protected when mum sells her home in a few months time since they pre-empted this scenario in the will so when my father passed away in 2011 my brother and I got a quarter each of the equity in the house and the local authority can't touch that.

@Overflow

not because of personal experience but norway is not part of euro and the taxpayer in norway has not to pay back greek debts

@Rob

I am not sure about details here, when for example a house is protected and when not. If it is given early enough to children then I assume here too but that are legal details. But it certainly would not work if you do that right after being informed that you are ill and income and insurance is not enough.

I too think it is not fair, in reality people saving are punished and those without anything are rewarded. Finally someone has to pay for it, if not taxpayer then individual

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: regarding England, in germany we have to sell our homes too if care is not covered by health insurance and income. In worst case you have to sell all you have before. I think too it is not fair that you loose everything at end of life, all you worked for and saved.

So you think it is fair that I (by taxes) have to pay for your mother's care so you can inherited a debt free house in a few years ?

_________________
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- blame Canada

@OlafS25

Which is the gist of the problem;

You are paying for the debt of your own leaders mismanagement of the economy.
EU or Not EU.

And by the way; Norway has to pay a yearly fee to be EUs friend, so we do pay. In addition to open ourselves up to the free market.

Last edited by Overflow on 08-Jun-2017 at 10:31 AM.

@Kronos

So you believe in a impoverished middle and working class where the state runs everything and takes huge taxes accordingly? That's the way it is heading. Credit Crunch = tax the middle classes, NHS funding black hole = tax the middle classes, increase inheritance tax and raid the pension pots. Nothing is actually getting better but everyone except the mega rich are getting poorer. Increasing corporations tax is not the answer either as it will drive big business offshore. How about making the likes of Amazon pay up for what they currently should be paying i.e. do business in the UK = having to pay UK corporations tax with no questions?

There are NO good ideas coming out of Westminster in regards to this but I don't think stealing money so no one gets to leave an inheritance to their children is the answer! The NHS funds viagra, sex change therapy, abortions and all other sorts of rubbish we shouldn't be paying for. No one would bother saving at all if it ALL gets taken off you to pay for care (when we've paid into the NHS our whole lives) and if Corbyn gets his way he'll make sure there's 10% inflation to reduce the debt he will build up thereby further reducing peoples' savings.

Corbyn wants 70s style Britain with strong trade unions and no jobs. It just a shame that the exceptional Labour MP in my area has to serve under this moron Power to the Labour Party members who keep supporting Corbyn and the fools that still think the unions can turn this country around

Last edited by BigD on 08-Jun-2017 at 10:42 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 08-Jun-2017 at 10:41 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
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@Overflow

Fair play to Norway for investing their North Sea oil money. Tony Blair blew all of ours on expensive hospitals and high salaries for our National Health Service and we'll never be able to afford it now

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Do you want to push the right wing agenda tho, which eventually leads to increased levels of conflict around the world, and increased spending on military (socalled defense) and security.
Take a look at the US budget, its enough to make you weep. And thats not including the 10% increase by Trump, or black ops budget;

@Overflow

this is done because norway needs access to the market, not because of solidarity with the poor EU members

yes I think this whole "saving" was wrong and it was obvious that greece never could repay it because it is a weak economy with only tourism and agriculture products, not much to export

@Kronos

I think that the social systems are punishing saving and rewarding not being responsible for yourself

@BigD

If you insist on going on far out rant it would be basic courtesy to atleast try to comprehend the post your are tacking it to as a reply.

Would atleast make it a bit harder to makes oneself look like an utter fool

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@OlafS25

With regards to Germany, and mechanics, Mark Blyth;

https://youtu.be/S31VLG8Qi78?t=2355

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWsMfmNXUYQ&feature=youtu.be&t=2

@BigD

Quote:

The NHS funds viagra, sex change therapy, abortions and all other sorts of rubbish we shouldn't be paying for.

The main problem with the NHS is the number of non functionary middle manager protecting their own mini empires.

Have a guess which country comes second to Thailand for gender reassignment operations.

Last edited by Rob on 09-Jun-2017 at 12:05 AM.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: The NHS funds viagra, sex change therapy, abortions and all other sorts of rubbish we shouldn't be paying for.

WTF? So in your opinion, the country would be better off reduced to religious fundamentalism as a basis of governance? What about if I feel upset that my taxes are paying for the treatment of whatever conditions you or your family members have suffered from? I'm sure you'd change your tune if you developed ED - or would you just accept it as God's will?

It's already a joke that the UK is dragging its heels on marriage equality, but you'd rather see it pushed back into the dark ages instead of moving forward like many civilised nations. What next? Take the children of unmarried mothers away into state care? Take the right to vote away from women? Ban red meat consumption on a Friday?

_________________
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@Overflow

Hi Everyone!

Let me speak as an American voter and as a political activist myself. First, Bernie would have lost worse then Hillary. The minorities did not trust him, and they believed his socialist programs were pie in sky garbage. They know that nothing is free!

Trump was pay back for Obama basically. It is clear that America is becoming increasingly non-white, and this is challenging the old power structure of the country. We saw for the first time, this colation (liberal whites, urban dwellers, minorities, under 35) in action when it voted in Obama, so the old colation (rural whites, WASPS, white baby boomers, over 55, etc) flexed there muscle one last time and got trump in.

Since the old colation is basically losing power and trump is a complete disaster, our next president will definately be from the center left and probably young and a minority.

Yogi

@OlafS25

>greeks digged themselves in the grave

Not only the greek people are responsible but also EU that accepted Greece in Eurozone with a falsified comptability.
Also the banks are responsible that have continued to give money despite the fact they knows that Greece cant pay (but "too big to fall" was making sure banks to have their money back)

>there should have been a clean solution, greece going bankrupt and leaving euro

I TOTALLY agree with you : it will have cost much to french and german banks but only one time
Now we are in a (banks favorable) system that greek debt is still getting bigger (source eurostat) :


2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016
Greece 225,648 239,915 264,775 301,062 330,570 356,289 305,096 320,511 319,728 311,668 314,897 http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&pcode=tipsgo11&plugin=1

>Jobs [...] you can call it neoliberal if you like but that is how it worked in germany
Except that all neoliberal reforms that were made in France just bringed more unemployment
Also the Euro was taylored for Germany : anchoring german currency to low currencies is a way to keep it moderately low. It wasnt the case for deutsch mark that got a tendance to go too high
And German population is older so need less jobs
So can say that EU seems to only works well for Gemany not a proof that EU go in a good direction

@Rob
>I was watching Tim Pool and some other independent journalists and they were saying that in the US, Le Pen would still be seen as leftist.

Objectively they are true : her program is really leftist for the economics and conservative against the immigration/globalization: a somehow Sanders/Trump mix


Alain Thellier

Last edited by thellier on 08-Jun-2017 at 01:19 PM.
Last edited by thellier on 08-Jun-2017 at 01:18 PM.
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@Yogi27

Please don't speak for all of us.
Personally, I would have voted for Bernie and I voted for Clinton.
If you didn't support either, well then YOU are responsible for Trump, not ME.

The only thing we agree upon is that Trump is a disaster.

And, btw the way guys, if you think European countries have an issue with health care, you ought to try to cover it here (as a US citizen).
Perhaps British healthcare could be run better, but you don't want someone with a profit motive running it, because then you will see your costs skyrocket.

As we have seen in the US, and that is the primary problem with the Affordable Care Act, involving insurance companies merely makes things worse.

I'll pay for my healthcare, just eliminate the middlemen and run it through one payer that negotiates better prices for medications and other necessary care.

@thellier

I heard that already a couple of times but it is not true still

germany has both record low unemployment and high numbers of people employed in absolute numbers

it was not tailored to germany but many countries joined euro who were not able in reality. To have a working currency market you need a similar structure in all countries, there was a currency market in time of DM with countries tying their currencies to DM, if those countries would have formed a working market. Tying countries with different economic structures and attitudes in one currency was simply stupid, politicians think they are oride of creation but in reality they are simply too stupid to understand but pretend to do so. In this case with far reaching consequences...

I can assure you germans are not happy about the politics of ECB, in fact germans were the only ones opposing it from day one. It is politics with high risks and no control, nothing we ever would support. BTW even personal I feel the damage so it is not abstract anymore. And the longer it lasts the more harmful it will become.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 08-Jun-2017 at 04:08 PM.
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Last edited by OlafS25 on 08-Jun-2017 at 04:04 PM.

@iggy

we have a phrase here, choice between pest and cholera... I think both were deeply unpopular and many who voted for Obama, f.e. many blacks, were disappointed because of him and not going to vote at all. The disappointed white middle class people and the poor whites all voted so that decided the vote. Additional of course the strange election system in USA inherited from britain.

@OlafS25

You should watch a few Mark Blyth talks. He covers the EUzone and Germany rather extensivly in several of them.
Basically with the same currency, noone can correct for the situation. Those that has the printingpress has the upperhand etc.

I linked it before; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S31VLG8Qi78&feature=youtu.be&t=2355

Anyhow, that just gives you a very brief commentary. He covers the issue in many other talks, some quite extensivly.

Last edited by Overflow on 08-Jun-2017 at 04:34 PM.