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klx300r
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 13-Aug-2017 5:04:51
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Elite Member |
Joined: 4-Mar-2008 Posts: 3833
From: Toronto, Canada | | |
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iggy wrote: @Spectre660 .... And while I have enjoyed playing around with Linux on my PCIe G5, what its really done is help me reaffirm that I need an X5000. .... . |
seriously you've been saying that for what seems like a long time now so go & buy one already and start having fun already Last edited by klx300r on 13-Aug-2017 at 05:05 AM.
_________________ ____________________________ c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII ! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 ! mancave-ramblings X1000 I BELIEVE |
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Hypex
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 17-Aug-2017 15:23:01
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Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @tonyw
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FWIW, booting my X5000/20 takes 42 seconds from power on to AmiDock appearing on the Workbench |
That's on par with the A1-XE which is good.
Though it is matching a computer over ten years old with technology about 15 years ahead so perhaps it should be booting in half the time at least. |
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Rob
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 17-Aug-2017 17:27:25
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Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Mar-2003 Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales | | |
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| @klx300r
Quote:
klx300r wrote: Quote:
iggy wrote: @Spectre660 .... And while I have enjoyed playing around with Linux on my PCIe G5, what its really done is help me reaffirm that I need an X5000. .... . |
seriously you've been saying that for what seems like a long time now so go & buy one already and start having fun already |
MorphOS isn't available for it yet and he really wants a P5040 version. |
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Beans
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 17-Aug-2017 17:39:08
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Joined: 26-Aug-2016 Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA | | |
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| @klx300r
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seriously you've been saying that for what seems like a long time now so go & buy one already and start having fun already |
Fun? I'm having fun. The X5000/20? Maybe... But I'd rather have an X5000/40.
Either way, a nice system._________________ Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective" |
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tlosm
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 17-Aug-2017 17:58:35
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Elite Member |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land | | |
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| @Rob
sorry i will prefer g5 quad morphos. _________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
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Beans
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 17-Aug-2017 18:20:54
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Joined: 26-Aug-2016 Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA | | |
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| @tlosm
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sorry i will prefer g5 quad morphos. |
Funny. So would I, but it doesn't exist. Then again, MorphOS for the X5000 isn't available yet. _________________ Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective" |
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Hypex
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 18-Aug-2017 16:02:40
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @All
One of the annoying things I find about PowerPC is the lack of basic info about it. So I Google the "T208X" that this laptop is supposed to have. I barely get a few pages with the exact hit and what I do get, including the NXP site, is vague about what it has. I betcha if I Googled some AMD64 model number I'd get a load of pages that would detail all the basic specs like Ghz, Cores and threads.
So from what I can acertain the processor will be a quad core, dual threaded job running at 1.8Ghz. Sounds like an X1000. But won't the X5000/40 have a quad core at 2Ghz? Gee I'm shocked, an AmigaOne model, faster than a laptop!
From a little research this looks similar to a basic eight core AMD64. That is a four core with two hardware threads per core. Or as I would put it, a cheat. I don't know if the PPC hardware threading is better than the AMD one which I'm told, only does it in the integer unit, IIRC.
AltiVec still looks like a problem. For one thing, it's only 128-bit. Isn't a 128-bit CPU stuck in the 90's?
AFAIK AMD/Intel have 512-bit vector units. So any advantage PowerPC had over x86 there was lost a few 64-bits ago. Apart from that Intel is indirectly forcing alternate CPUs like PowerPC to run in ppc64intel mode. And AFAIK in little endian mode AltiVec is disabled.
So nice idea but it's still going to be crippled if it must run in PC mode to be full functional. Then again. Perfect for OS4! |
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WolfpackN64
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 18-Aug-2017 17:36:26
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Regular Member |
Joined: 8-Oct-2016 Posts: 300
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Hypex
There is no such thing as "PC mode" There are little and big endian distributions. The laptop will be aimed at big endian distributions.
Furthermore, the amount of bits isn't very representative of the the speed of a vector unit. |
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tlosm
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 18-Aug-2017 17:41:35
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Elite Member |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land | | |
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billt
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 18-Aug-2017 18:46:44
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Oct-2003 Posts: 3205
From: Maryland, USA | | |
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| @Hypex
What is "PC mode"?
It's a 64bit CPU, with 128bit Altivec, yes. For AmigaOS, surely it will be running in big-endian mode, with Altivec enabled...
So, comparing 4 cores, 2 threads each, total 8 threads, to an x1000 2 cores, single thread each? Uh... Laptop wins...
Then, comparing x5000, with 2 cores, 2 threads each, at 2.-GHz but no Altivec, to a 1.8GHz 4 cores, 2 threads each at 1.8GHz with altivec, then it depends on what you are running about who to expcet to win. If it is somethng that can benefit from Altivec, then I'd wager the lptop wins by a good margin. If it doesn't benefit from Altivec (whether or not Altivec is present), then the x5000 may win slightly. Even if the 4-core, 2 threads each 5040 version of x5000 was available, I think the same outcome in a race, depends on if the software benefits from Altivec or not.
I have a sense that the dual-threadedness (aka hyperthreading) of the e6500 core is a better duality than x64, I'll see if I can dig up any links to support that or not, or if that wsa something at one point in time but obsolete now. _________________ All glory to the Hypnotoad! |
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Beans
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 18-Aug-2017 20:35:57
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Regular Member |
Joined: 26-Aug-2016 Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA | | |
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| @billt
The e5500 cored P5020 or (P5040) are single threaded processors without AltiVec instructions. The e6500 cored T2080 is a dual threaded processor with Altivec instructions. So the X5000/20 would support 2 concurrent threads at 2.0 GHz, the X5000/40 would support four concurrent threads at (I believe) 2.2 GHz (it could be slower). The T2080 based laptop would support eight concurrent threads at 1.8 GHz (with a more powerful fpu).
Under OS4 or MorphOS (without SMP support) either X5000 model (not considering fpu instructions) would outperform a T2080 based laptop.
Under Linux, the laptop would completely blow the doors off either of the X5000 models. And should SMP be introduced to either NG OS, a similar performance disparity would appear. _________________ Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective" |
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billt
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 18-Aug-2017 22:56:01
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Oct-2003 Posts: 3205
From: Maryland, USA | | |
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| @Beans
Thank You for correcting x5000 theeads per core, i for some reason thought it would be 2 per core like e6500 is.
I still think that an altivec enabled app would beat a non-altivec equivalent, but Im not really sure what actually uses altivec in amigaos. _________________ All glory to the Hypnotoad! |
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tlosm
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 19-Aug-2017 8:17:46
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Elite Member |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land | | |
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| @Beans
in numbers T2080 every thead will be 5200 mips P5020 one thread 6000 mips P5040 one thread 6600 mips.
but mips are relative because we have to consider the cpu cache speed, ram speed and pcie speed.
for what i know about p5xxx and the datasheet of e6500 the second cpu will have double ram access speed and double pcie speed compared the e5500 and this in not altivec operations ... in altivec usually you need to add 30% more faster io speed access.
e5500 have a pcie bus 2.0 with 4x max speed e6500 have a pcie bus 3.0 with 8x max speed
e5500 have max 3.5 gbs ram access in the P5040 version. e6500 will have 7 gbs ram access and near 10 gbs in altivec operations.
altivec is used in gfx and video computing and in raid in linux . _________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
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Beans
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 19-Aug-2017 15:34:01
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Joined: 26-Aug-2016 Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA | | |
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| @tlosm
All pretty close. The T2080's faster ram access, faster PCI-E operation, and AltiVec instructions might even things out.
But in single threaded operations, I don't expect to see a lot of difference.
Its when SMP is factored in that the 2 versus 4 versus 8 threads will really play out. Under Linux, a T2080 laptop should really shine.
For now though, the X5000/20 ought to be adequate. And once the X5000/40 is introduced...well there is a bit of a diminishing return above 4 threads. _________________ Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective" |
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Hypex
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 19-Aug-2017 16:24:36
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @WolfpackN64
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There is no such thing as "PC mode" There are little and big endian distributions. The laptop will be aimed at big endian distributions. |
Big endian distros are dying out. Little endian distros run in PC mode. The words are all reversed. Like a in a PC. |
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Hypex
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 19-Aug-2017 16:30:46
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @tlosm
Cheers. I migh have found that. But I still prefer the info prepared as a table. Also, did they say they are using the 1.8Ghz version? And why aren't they running at 4Ghz now? I thought PPC caught up. |
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Hypex
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 19-Aug-2017 16:43:42
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @billt
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Just a little joke of mine about the PowerPC running in little endian mode.
They might call it ppc64el but that's just a contraction of ppc64intel. I can see it.
The 7 inch release has ppc64el. But the 12 inch release has ppc64intel with the full story.
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So, comparing 4 cores, 2 threads each, total 8 threads, to an x1000 2 cores, single thread each? Uh... Laptop wins... |
I was just comparing the "1.8Ghz" to the X1000. The rest I was comparing to the X5000/40.
Quote:
Then, comparing x5000, with 2 cores, 2 threads each, at 2.-GHz but no Altivec, to a 1.8GHz 4 cores, 2 threads each at 1.8GHz with altivec |
Good point there. The missing AltiVec. What uses it on Linux?
For OS4 it should be using it for fast copy routines and other optimisations. Which it will lack on the X5000. Back from 128-bit copy to 64-bit copy.
Quote:
I have a sense that the dual-threadedness (aka hyperthreading) of the e6500 core is a better duality than x64 |
Still good to have. Though taking that into account OS4 will only be using 1/8th of the cores. But could make full use of AltiVec in one core. |
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tlosm
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 19-Aug-2017 16:53:06
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Elite Member |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land | | |
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| @Hypex
Open Laptop is first born for linux because Roberto Innocenti is a Linux PPC lover . we can adopt it for AmigaOs because will be really simple for hyperion after did X5000 version of Os4 make the adeguate modifications for use the e6500 core.
About Performance The user experience will be really cool on 1 thread of e6500... but if you count the qemu team is near to full emulate the Sam460 (yesterday news) you will have on this laptop 6x amigaos4 session in linux window at full speed thanks to kvm ... e6500 can full virtualize the e5500 and the 4xx cpu. _________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
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WolfpackN64
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 19-Aug-2017 17:42:42
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Regular Member |
Joined: 8-Oct-2016 Posts: 300
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Hypex
That's why we're specifically targeting big endian distro's. There still are some major ones (Fedora, OpenSUSE). But the idea is to resurrect the PPC64 Debian distro. |
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tlosm
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Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty Posted on 19-Aug-2017 17:55:28
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Elite Member |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land | | |
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| @WolfpackN64
Debian PPC64 is updated but is unoffical like the debian SPE for the tabor. The Fedora and OpenSuse are full of issue because really optimized for Power5,6,7 i hope thanks for this laptop will start be more generic. I have issue with this distros on X5000 and on G5 quad too ... because with VSX optimized .
_________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
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