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g01df1sh 
Ransom Ware
Posted on 27-Jun-2017 14:44:09
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1777
From: UK

Hi all

With the rise in ransom ware how hard would it be to close down the bitcoin system as this is what I believe to the route of what started all this virus crap. Surely if bitcoin is shut down then the criminals will have to look for another way of payment. Bit coin is to easy and not as traceable as cheque or money transfers.

Just wondered how all you guys feel on this

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Drewlio77 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 27-Jun-2017 15:25:09
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Jan-2008
Posts: 781
From: Woodstock, Ontario, Canada

@g01df1sh

I agree Bitcoin's biggest drawback is that it can be used for less than legal means. Any type of currency should be traceable.

Drewlio77

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TheAMIgaOne 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 27-Jun-2017 15:40:53
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Jan-2004
Posts: 776
From: United Kingdom

@g01df1sh

Hmmm, why on earth would the reasoning for ransomware come down to bitcoin.

Ransomeware has been around for years, and predates the concept of bitcoins.

You could quite easily ask for ransom by submitting a An amazon voucher barcode, all the attacker needs to do is use that code in a chain of card voucher redeem websites and presto, clean money



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g_kraszewski 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 27-Jun-2017 16:29:11
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Sep-2010
Posts: 343
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

Using the same reasoning, driving a truck should be forbidden and all the trucks should be confiscated by government. Then terrorists cannot use them to kill people.

In fact it is not Bitcoin enabling ransomware. It is Windows operating system. It really should be made illegal in Europe, or at least it has to be made clear, that users are using it on their own risk.

Last edited by g_kraszewski on 27-Jun-2017 at 04:29 PM.

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evilFrog 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 27-Jun-2017 17:36:12
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2004
Posts: 397
From: UK

@Drewlio77

Quote:

I agree Bitcoin's biggest drawback is that it can be used for less than legal means. Any type of currency should be traceable.


I would argue that untraceability is one of bitcoin's greatest strengths.
Governments are incredibly quick to stamp all over industries and viewpoints that don't benefit them or their friends in business, and that's not very good for progress or liberty.

If you think about it, we've had untraceable 'currencies' for 99% of all human history. Things like gold, spices, etc. quite often ended up with a value over and above their practical uses.

The muppets who like to commit crimes/terror attacks are always going to find a way to do it, no matter what they use as a store of value.

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DC_Edge 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 27-Jun-2017 17:53:30
#6 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2003
Posts: 190
From: France

Ok let's try also to close western union because the scam quantity there is absolutely and definitely bigger than any bitcoin system.

Do we need to establish a complete list of services? Also please close the internet because no one can trace someone who uses vpn?

Not a good idea imho

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Xenic 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 27-Jun-2017 19:44:46
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2004
Posts: 1246
From: Pennsylvania, USA

@DC_Edge
It's more than an issue of ransomware. There is no NEED for bitcoin, other than engaging in illegal activities. It facilitates drug dealing, illegal internet activities, terrorism, tax evasion etc. but law abiding citizens don't need it.

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Jose 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 27-Jun-2017 23:17:08
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 992
From: Unknown

There used to be a time when banks used to pay us to have our money there, now it seems to be the other way around... We have to pay them for them to make profits with it, many times abusing it in the process and bringing whole country's economies with it. Bitcoin (and other alt coins) allows transfers with virtually no fees.
By the way, it's not as untraceable as many people believe, actually it might be more traceable in some cases.

"Governments are incredibly quick to stamp all over industries and viewpoints that don't benefit them or their friends in business, and that's not very good for progress or liberty."

This. Also, don't forget real money is how the mafia used to work in the old times (and current I guess), should we scrap real money because it can be used directly ?

Last edited by Jose on 27-Jun-2017 at 11:20 PM.

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Paula 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 28-Jun-2017 15:42:13
#9 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Jun-2017
Posts: 23
From: Unknown

@Xenic
Quote:
There is no NEED for bitcoin, other than engaging in illegal activities. It facilitates drug dealing, illegal internet activities, terrorism, tax evasion etc. but law abiding citizens don't need it.

You scare me man. Just because you don't understand a new technology, you declare it void and those who do know how to use it to be criminals in one single sentence.
Some may call that verbally efficient, but as I already wrote: I just call it scary.

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iggy 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 28-Jun-2017 17:24:28
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Drewlio77

Quote:
Any type of currency should be traceable


No, that is the authoritarian view, but I don't at all agree with it at all.
And cash is, for the most part, not traceable, so your point about currency is obscure.

Quote:
There is no NEED for bitcoin, other than engaging in illegal activities. It facilitates drug dealing, illegal internet activities, terrorism, tax evasion etc. but law abiding citizens don't need it.


Our founding fathers would have been considered terrorists too, if the revolution had not succeeded.
You worry about abiding the law, I'll worry about the laws themselves (and the taxation).

Last edited by iggy on 28-Jun-2017 at 05:30 PM.

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elwood 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 28-Jun-2017 18:13:17
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3428
From: Lyon, France

@iggy

Quote:
You worry about abiding the law, I'll worry about the laws themselves (and the taxation).


I worry about the human beings having the habit to kill, steal, destroy... etc.
Bitcoin allows them to hide. It's the same with encrypted chat channels that terrorists use to spread their crap.

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evilFrog 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 28-Jun-2017 21:58:59
#12 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2004
Posts: 397
From: UK

@elwood
Quote:

Bitcoin allows them to hide.


So does gold. So do bricks. So do carrots and thimbles and teaspoons.

"These carrots are grown from seed blessed by the Big Man himself! Why not pay 100x the normal cost? No money? That's fine, we're in need of a few things... just buy this one, then nobody can link it back."

Quote:
It's the same with encrypted chat channels that terrorists use to spread their crap.


Or legit businesses use to exchange credit card data, medical info, and so on. Once you've broken the encryption on one, you've broken both. Or you've obsoleted one and invented another.

Are you happy posting all your financial and medical data online? If the government has ways enough to get it, I - and many more less ethical than me - will have it too.

It's no good fighting for freedom if you do it by making everyone less free. What's left when you win?

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iggy 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 28-Jun-2017 22:08:38
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@evilFrog

Quote:
It's no good fighting for freedom if you do it by making everyone less free. What's left when you win?


Sounds rational to me.
The argument that giving up freedom for security, leaves you neither free or secure is similar.

And a briefcase of cash is not much easier to trace than bitcoins or ethereum.

Is the exchange medium itself evil, or anything malign done with it?

And do I really need to inform the government about EVERY aspect of my life?
What if THEY aren't trustworthy?

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Zylesea 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 28-Jun-2017 22:08:46
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

Let's do a roundup and just forbit mankind. Should solve most issues with criminals, terrorists and all the other bastards (you name them).

Some nukes and planet earth will be a peaceful place, finally.

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iggy 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 28-Jun-2017 22:57:45
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Zylesea

Well...all my buddies in environmental science and natural resources tell me that Mother Nature will eventually rectify that situation without our intervention anyway.

After all, all previous apex species that inhabited the planet have been replaced by evolution, disease, or natural catastrophe.

Why assume we get to decide what takes us out?

Last edited by iggy on 28-Jun-2017 at 10:58 PM.

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evilFrog 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 28-Jun-2017 23:29:18
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2004
Posts: 397
From: UK

@iggy

Quote:

Is the exchange medium itself evil, or anything malign done with it?


People are evil. Everything else kinda flows from there.
Otherwise you're blaming guns for shootings, knives for stabbings, etc.
Is the knife still evil if I just use it to make my lunch? How could one spot an 'evil knife'?

Quote:

And do I really need to inform the government about EVERY aspect of my life?
What if THEY aren't trustworthy?


Government should be on a need to know, minimum-power-to-do-the-job basis, always. Even if someone wishes to trust their government TODAY, who's to say that tomorrow won't see the election of some sort of stealth nutjobs who seem totally reasonable then go on a racial/ethnic/ideological purge? What if they're knowingly elected but a large % of voters just don't give a damn, because they hate that group already and won't be purged themselves?

We have seen this monster pop up many times before. We sure as heck shouldn't be considering handing it the tools it needs as the better of two options.

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BigD 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 28-Jun-2017 23:38:21
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@iggy

The Bible clearly says that they'll still be some of us alive when Jesus returns at the end of days. You swallowed the evolution cool aid hard man. I suppose it was the 'millions of years' assumption that swung it for you. I mean in a million years a piece of mouldy pizza could 'evolve' intelligence right You chaos theorists crack me up! How many Rolex watches have you come accros that were assembled by a concurrent set of random explosions? You might as well say given a million years at least a few Rolex watches could be assemble in this way! Deluded And the Americans are still supposed to be a bastion of Bible believers too!

There will never be another cataclystic 'natural castrophe' like the flood unless you count judgement day. And not even the 'Black Death' got close to wiping out humanity.

Quote:
The Black Death was one of the most devastating pandemics in human history, peaking in Europe between 1347 and 1350 with 30% to 60% of the population killed. It reduced world population from an estimated 450 million to between 350 and 375 million.


The whole 'replaced by evolution' statement is ridiculous as well by somehow assuming that a species ceases to be because one of it's members species jumped, managed to reproduce (a long shot if it's mutated to the point you'd consider it a new species) and then was biologically sent on a Terminator 2 style mission to outbreed and kill all of its progenitor species!! You couldn't write it. We'll it turns out you could and some people are peddling it as science! And all because a group of scientists got together and agreed to try and erradicate God by making their own insane (and unscientific) world view based assumption about the age of the universe and then pretended that peer review between them was somehow more valid than the Bible.

Rectify the situation? We're it; the human race. We're the reason planet Earth is even here; created to sustain us for God's pleasure. Yes, we're supposed to caretake for all the plants and animals and be good stewards but to make out the Earth has somehow got value without us existing is nihilistic and has no scientific proof just a world view starting from an assumption that there is categorically no God. In reality a completely biased 'faith' based position in itself but based on zero faith in humanity ever having ANY redeemable qualities. WE WERE CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD! We have inate value and human life shouldn't be reduced to a comparison with cockroaches or vermin needing pest control!! Yes we're fallen being yes we need Jesus but we are NOT cosmic pond scum that deserves nuking!

Last edited by BigD on 28-Jun-2017 at 11:41 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 28-Jun-2017 23:44:27
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Thread

P.S. How did all this come from a thread about ransomware and computer attacks?

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lylehaze 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 0:42:12
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1142
From: North Florida - Big Bend area.

An unexpected requester just popped up. It said:

"Donate to AmigaWorld.net, or else Windows 10 will autoinstall on your X1000"


Ransomware is terrifying.

There is no need for bitcoin, as long as you completely trust the economic system.
There is no need for encryption, as long as you completely trust the government.
There is no need for unions, as long as you trust management to consider your best interest.
There is no need for weapons, as long as you trust all the people in your world.

Because something CAN be used for evil, does not make that thing evil.
Some people actually use Intel processors to compile AmigaOS code.

:)

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Jose 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 0:44:22
#20 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 992
From: Unknown

@BigD
I don't know you tell us :)
I think nature can do amazing things, specially through time, and what hasn't a scientific explanation today might have so tomorrow. But I don't get it why there has to be a creationist/evolutionary, black and white, one is wrong there other is right type of view. In the end maybe both are right and wrong, maybe there was a big bang and evolution from monkeys or whatever you wanna call them, however why was that possible in the first place ? And if there were Rolex watches assembling that way the matter/energy that makes them would still have to come from somewhere.

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