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pavlor 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 16:46:49
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
That both tells us that the Bible is Jesus' message and that Jesus was present at creation.


Who wrote these words? God? No, mere humans. Even if they got message from God, they would interpret it by their own habits and knowledge.

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BigD 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 17:04:51
#42 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@pavlor

No one else was at creation other than the Trinity of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit so I think you can safely assume that the account was directly inspired by God because the apostle John definitely wasn't there at the time to write it down from memory!

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Signal 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 17:05:05
#43 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 664
From: USA


The American Indians believe(d) in The Great Spirit........... No books, no preachers, no buildings or organized religion.

They also think that this planet belongs to their grandchildren.

Silly people.

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BigD 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 17:08:22
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@pavlor

2 Timothy 3:16-17New International Version (NIV)

Quote:
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


The Bible claims to be God breathed not written by learned men in their own strength! Therefore either accept it as such or reject it ALL and live in idolatry. Don't kid yourself that you can straddle the line and accept the bits you like and not other sections!

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BigD 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 17:10:23
#45 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Signal

Quote:
The American Indians believe(d) in The Great Spirit


They might as well have worshipped a baked bean tin for all the good it did them. One of the only good things that Europeans brought the Native Americans was the Bible.

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pavlor 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 17:23:53
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
The Bible claims to be God breathed not written by learned men in their own strength!


So there is some golden-God-created-master-copy of Bible?

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Signal 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 17:32:55
#47 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 664
From: USA

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@Signal

Quote:
The American Indians believe(d) in The Great Spirit


They might as well have worshipped a baked bean tin for all the good it did them. One of the only good things that Europeans brought the Native Americans was the Bible.


They also had no concept of Hell. Another gift.

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BigD 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 17:40:14
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Signal

Quote:
They also had no concept of Hell. Another gift.


Yeah, it's good to know what you're facing rather than just sleep walking into a horrific oblivion with no warning.

Just becasue you're in ignorant bliss regaring the Juggernaut about to hit your car doesn't mean it isn't going to hurt when it impacts.

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iggy 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 19:35:27
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@BigD

You really are an embarrassment.

If the Native American's "can of beans" didn't damn them to hell, it sounds like an improvement.
Which brings up the mentally ill or incompetent who can't understand to ask for forgiveness.
Under your dogma, they are damned to hell regardless thanks to your concept of 'original sin'.
And we could argue for days over the other offensive concepts that draw from literal translation, like slaves being obligated to 'honor thy master', women being subservient to men, physical illness being caused by 'evil spirits' (and, for that matter being healed by faith).

There are a multitude in there as its a document compiled from multiple sources written by men.

So if I separate the wheat from the chaff, and you regurgitate it all, I'm the idolater?
I'm not the fool that thinks he knows what God looks like.
Or did you forget the proscription against graven images?

You know, I live in a State with a high Amish population, and they have one thing going for them that you 'conservatives' don't.
They actually DO talk to outsiders, BUT they don't offer their opinions because they're modest and unsure that it is appropriate to lecture others about their lifestyles.

That kind of approach makes sense to me, because once you're completely sure you know what God wants, that he has communicated it to you, you are one step away from psychosis.


Last edited by iggy on 29-Jun-2017 at 07:37 PM.

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jorit2 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 19:51:37
#50 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

WE WERE CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD!


Bollocks !

Your god is a childish fantasy, an Jesus, if he ever existed, was a cult or sect leader

If you wanna play this retarted religious fanaticism game .... I'll happily reply in kind !

Evert

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pavlor 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 19:59:46
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@jorit2

Quote:
an Jesus, if he ever existed


His existence is proven by way of his death. I don´t think his followers would fabricate story of execution of their master.

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iggy 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 20:01:42
#52 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@jorit2

'cult or sect leader'...hmm, in a way, yes.

A radical Jew, with a small devoted following.

A heretic of the first order, who was condemned by the 'BigD's' of his time.

Not a completely invalid argument.

Nor, necessarily, a bad person to be, one that questions authority.

God on the other hand is a perspective, not a childish fantasy, I can feel the presence of God whenever I'm close to nature.
As could the Native Americans, or any other people close to the Earth.

But when you have the hubris to think you can commit these concepts to paper and call them absolute truth, again, we are back to psychosis.

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jorit2 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 20:08:56
#53 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:

God on the other hand is a perspective, not a childish fantasy, I can feel the presence of God whenever I'm close to nature.
As could the Native Americans, or any other people close to the Earth.


Well me too, I think there must be something, allthough I'm not convinced.
Hell, I'm not even convinced we do actually exist.

But I can't help but thinking that the catholic god, let's put it that way, is an oversimplified take on what must be there, complacent even ... or condescending

Evert

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BigD 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 20:39:24
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@iggy

Quote:
That kind of approach makes sense to me, because once you're completely sure you know what God wants, that he has communicated it to you, you are one step away from psychosis.


See my previous post using the example of a Juggernaut heading towards your car. The Bible clearly sets out what God expects and it's a tall order that no one has achieved other than Jesus. That's why we need his help. The 10 Commandments and the law will condemn us ALL to hell if we try and be 'good' people and attempt to work our way to heaven by doing what WE consider good works. Every Christian should be expounding the following truths (and primary 4 points or summary of the Christian faith):

1) God loves me
2) I have sinned
3) Jesus died for me
4) I need to decide to live for God

The4Points.com

If you reject those truths as not applying to you then that's on you. If I keep that to myself then it's still on you because a creator God is an obvious conclusion from creation but then it's also on me for refusing to tell you the good news and I would be doing you a disservice keeping it to myself.

The Bible says clearly the wages of sin is death and without Jesus we're on our way to hell for our sinful state and inability to be found righteous in the eyes of a holy and just judge that God is. Although made in the image of God our lives are pale imitations of what we were meant to be due to the fall and our sinful hearts.

The Amish, Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons uphold their 'religious' teachings and even hand out tracts if it means they are more likely to win worldly praise or fulfill the expectations of their sect and you may be able to respect that. However, unless they actually care about you and where you are at in your life in regards to Jesus then I would suggest their 'religion' is hollow and self serving.

The Church should be the only organisation that is primarily for the benefit of its non-members not a self-serving clique that keeps the good news under lock and key for fear of offending.

Last edited by BigD on 29-Jun-2017 at 08:43 PM.

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iggy 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 21:17:33
#55 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@jorit2

Thanks, there is a particular stand of full growth forest in one of the tracts of Delaware's Redden State forest that I visit if I want to feel particularly connected.
The trees stretch up over a hundred feet forming pillars with a cathedral ceiling of green.
And everywhere around moves with life as the sunlight filters through in angled beams.

There is order in the Universe that seems in opposition to the entropy and chaos that destroys things.
Things are created, live, die, and new things are born.
Its not a seven day event, its continuous.

As such, I'm convinced that the Universe itself is self aware/conscious. And there is your God.
At creation, the Big Bang, saying "Let there be light", with us always, whether we know it or not.
When we die, we return to that.
And as such, the only thing I find 'childish' in the concept is that God demands anything of us, or would ever stoop to the creation of something as small minded as Hell.
An act of evil, if anything documented in the Bible is.

The conservative Christian thinks that if he is made in God's image, that God must have similar flaws to his own and be a small minded as he is, therefore they have modeled their God after themselves.
In essence, they have made themselves God, and the reason for all creation.

Its a transparent, flawed ideology, that I'm sure they are forgiven for, after all, they are only human.

Last edited by iggy on 29-Jun-2017 at 10:15 PM.
Last edited by iggy on 29-Jun-2017 at 09:30 PM.
Last edited by iggy on 29-Jun-2017 at 09:20 PM.
Last edited by iggy on 29-Jun-2017 at 09:19 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 22:15:08
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@iggy

Quote:
And as such, the only thing I find 'childish' in the concept is that God demands anything of us, or would ever stoop to the creation of something as small minded as Hell.


Hell is just where God isn't. We have no concept of that as we live under his myriad of blessings every day. That is why hell is such a catastrophic eventuality for a human soul. Endless torment without ANY good thing.

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iggy 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 22:23:59
#57 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@BigD

THAT sounds more like a fairy tail then the Harry Potter novels you appear to find offensive.
And its not possible for God to be absent from anywhere if he is omnipresent.

What would create the torment?
Or do you doubt the part of Isiah 45:5 that says "I am the one, the only one, there is no other".
No duels with Satan, no equal oppressor, and only one possible creator.
Which means God would have had a part in Hell's creation...no.
Hell is story fabricated to scare children.

The Jews were right, when you die, the worst thing you can do is die outside of grace.
And cease to exist in any form.
So in a way, you're right, you'd be in the absence of God.

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Paula 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 22:34:32
#58 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Jun-2017
Posts: 23
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
The extinction timeframes are normally assumed and species are said to have died out at a time period because they're not preserved in that particular layer of stratigraphy. And yet certain animals are explained away as not needing to evolve for millions of years i.e. sharks and others don't fit into evolutionary assumptions at all i.e. the Platypus and the Bombardier Beetle and so are ignored.

I will try to demonstrage the scientific method to you, based on these two of your many faulty claims:
You've made three claims here, namely that Sharks, the Platypus and the Bombardier beetle supposedly invalidate the theory of evolution somehow and thus they'd prove it to be false.
You've made your claim, now prove it. Where is your proof, that the exististence of these three species demonstrate that the earth is just around 6000 years old? You provided none - other than claiming that e.g. Sharks did not evolve over time, which is simply blatant nonsense:
http://sharkopedia.discovery.com/shark-topics/prehistoric-sharks/

I on the other hand, can demonstrate with two scientific facts, that the age of the Universe *must* be older than 6000 years (the bible thumper's claim to the age of Earth and the Universe - as both were supposedly created on the same day):
The speed of light is a constant within a vacuum and nothing in nature can travel faster than the speed of light. That was not just Einstein's theory, but it has been proven over and over again by scientific observation since (if you claim otherwise, please provide proof).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light

The Milky Way alone is ~100,000+ light years across, with the nearest sister galaxy Andromeda being ~2.5 million(!) light years away.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda_Galaxy

Since it is also an observable(!) fact that *all* galaxies move away from each other (->Hubble Constant), they must - by the very laws of logic - have once started out from a common point of origin.
Now how could they have possible reached their current position in spacetime within a mere 6000 years, w/o(!) invalidating the very laws of physics that hold our Universe together?

Last not least, by the laws of thermodynamics, a Universe which holds billions of galaxies with hundreds of billions of stars each, would boil itself to pieces, if it be a mere 6000 light years in diameter.
Your biblical Universe simply makes no sense, by any of the basic laws of physics and you base your faulty assumptions on the ancient writtings of uneducated goat herders and tribal chauvinists, who were rightfully decried as "barbariens" by their mediterranian contemporaries.

Last edited by Paula on 29-Jun-2017 at 10:51 PM.
Last edited by Paula on 29-Jun-2017 at 10:49 PM.
Last edited by Paula on 29-Jun-2017 at 10:47 PM.
Last edited by Paula on 29-Jun-2017 at 10:46 PM.

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Paula 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 22:39:00
#59 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Jun-2017
Posts: 23
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@pavlor

Have you ever read the Gospel of John?

John 1:1

Quote:
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God


That both tells us that the Bible is Jesus' message or 'wisdom' and that Jesus was present at creation.

What I find truly frustrating is that most bible thumpers don't even understand scripture too well.
John doesn't talk about Jesus, he talks about God (the father).
They are *not* the same - please my dear Christians, educate yourself on the concept of the holy trinity.
God the father, the son and the holy ghost. Its called "trinity" for a reason and all the gospels have places where Jesus (the son) talks with God (the father).
Now was he just being silly talking to himself there??

Last edited by Paula on 29-Jun-2017 at 10:42 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Ransom Ware
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 23:04:54
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@iggy

Quote:
What would create the torment?


The fact God isn't there means no good thing, no pleasure, no rest, only torment. I told you we have no concept of an eternity without God being present because we haven't experienced a second without him in this existance on Earth.

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