I recently brought an A1200 motherboard for a project. It has come with Kickstart 3.0. I need to upgrade but noticed that AmigaKit has 3.1 but also a "3.X" ROM as well.

I am a little behind with this (obviously!), is it worth going for that or just stick with 3.1?

@smartroad

3.x is a way of saying 'any version number starting with 3'. As far as physical ROMs go, the 3.1 ROM is the highest one you can buy.

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@evilFrog

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evilFrog wrote: @smartroad 3.x is a way of saying 'any version number starting with 3'. As far as physical ROMs go, the 3.1 ROM is the highest one you can buy.

This is what I saw: http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1273

@evilFrog

Not quite, no-one is really using such vague descriptions for ROM's since they are very specific in their purpose and pairing to Workbench. And in this case the version "3.X" (capital X) is a specific ROM version from Cloanto that helps you get the most out of their Workbench 3.1 and 3.X versions.

To make it even more confusing there are two different versions of 3.1, first the official Commodore 3.1 version as published by the Amiga IP owner Cloanto (we can call it the "checkmark" branch), then Hyperion briefly sold a different version in parallel (we can call it the "Boing Ball Branch").


(Click for big picture)

@TRIPOS

There is also the Vampire branches of 3.x, a blend of 3.1 and 3.9 kickstart, and dedicated exec.library (and who knows what else) very much like Cloanto's kickstarts.

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@TRIPOS

Ehhhhhh... that's messed up. They should've called it 3.1.1 or something. 3.x was used all over the place back in the day.

Interesting to note they're moving wb.library off to disk, just like the A4000T.

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@kolla

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kolla wrote: @TRIPOS There is also the Vampire branches of 3.x, a blend of 3.1 and 3.9 kickstart, and dedicated exec.library (and who knows what else) very much like Cloanto's kickstarts.

Oh, I wasn't aware that Cloanto released a special Vampire branch.

Is it in the list, or does the list need to be updated?

I thought the Vampire shipped with AROS so far?

Last edited by TRIPOS on 07-Jul-2017 at 06:28 PM.

@evilFrog

I agree that it's kind of an unfortunate name for the reason you mention. I suppose the "X" (looked upon as a variable) illustrate how it has been a moving target all along. A first version was released in 1999, with improvements made in 2006, 2014, 2016, the latest version 45.064. Especially Workbench 3.X has changed a lot during this time. At this point it is kind of OS 3.9 with some components having later/updated versions, so the capital X could perhaps also bee seen as the roman number 10, i.e. "Workbench 3.10". So the name could have dual meanings...

@evilFrog

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Interesting to note they're moving wb.library off to disk, just like the A4000T.

If this is the case, I recommend to stay with plain 3.1.

@TRIPOS

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Especially Workbench 3.X has changed a lot during this time. At this point it is kind of OS 3.9 with some components having later/updated versions

It's been a few years since I used AF but I always found the Workbench environment to be a bit lacking compared to a plain 3.9 install.

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e capital X could perhaps also bee seen as the roman number 10, i.e. "Workbench 3.10". So the name could have dual meanings...

3.10 wouldn't be a new version number. It's simply 3.1 with an extra decimal place.

@pavlor

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pavlor wrote: @evilFrog Quote: Interesting to note they're moving wb.library off to disk, just like the A4000T. If this is the case, I recommend to stay with plain 3.1.

Eh, OK? Why would you make such a recommendation?



This was how it was handled in the "plain 3.1" (for Amiga 4000T), and just like the 3.1 for A4000T the Workbench.library is supplied in in Libs/ in the plain Workbench 3.1 disk from Cloanto (i.e. not only in the Workbench 3.X).

It's simply a trade-off between keeping the ROM size at 512 KB for maximum compatibility while making room for enhancements. The benefit of for example having boot-time support for disks larger than 4 GB (no reboot required) should be obvious to everyone. Especially since there are no downsides?

@Rob

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Rob wrote: It's been a few years since I used AF but I always found the Workbench environment to be a bit lacking compared to a plain 3.9 install.

Then try again and boot Workbench 3.X instead of 3.1.

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Quote: e capital X could perhaps also bee seen as the roman number 10, i.e. "Workbench 3.10". So the name could have dual meanings... 3.10 wouldn't be a new version number. It's simply 3.1 with an extra decimal place.

Simply wrong.

There is no decimal value there at all!

There are simply two placeholders, one to the left of the point, one to the right. On Amiga, the versioning scheme (as outlined by Commodore in the RKRM) is as follows:

[Version] . [Revision]

After 9 comes 10. Then 11. And so on. It's as simple as that.

There is no limit to how many digits you can put in the placeholders. This is how "Version 40" of the Kickstart (the 3.1 kickstart) had 70 revisions (of which the last one (the one for the A4000T) "lacked" the Workbench.library)

The current release of MorphOS is 3.9, the next version will be 3.10. Version numbers are no decimal values!



(PS. Can't remember if the word actually used in the RKRM was "Revision" or something else. Not that it matters for the point in discussion though...)

Last edited by TRIPOS on 07-Jul-2017 at 08:34 PM.

@TRIPOS

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Especially since there are no downsides?

Except emergency cases, when you lose your backup disk containing workbench.library. Looking at usenet forums from late 1990s, it was common problem at least back then.

@TRIPOS

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Then try again and boot Workbench 3.X instead of 3.1.

3.9BB2 has still several components newer than 3.X. However, except AmiDock, it should be close to OS3.9 experience.

@pavlor

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pavlor wrote: @TRIPOS Quote: Especially since there are no downsides? Except emergency cases, when you lose your backup disk containing workbench.library. Looking at usenet forums from late 1990s, it was common problem at least back then.

Well, if you haven't got a Workbench disk you won't be able to boot from a Workbench disk. You have the disk? Then boot it! I don't understand your point?

Last edited by TRIPOS on 07-Jul-2017 at 09:15 PM.

@pavlor

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pavlor wrote: @TRIPOS Quote: Then try again and boot Workbench 3.X instead of 3.1. 3.9BB2 has still

Not "has still", 3.9 is dead since eons. Crashed and burned. Revoked. Forever a dead-end. R.I.P.

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several components

Some media codec or whatever. Probably something more. Stuff that can/should be downloaded separately anyway.

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However, except AmiDock

There is a dock there at least. Provided by Toolmanager I believe.

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it should be close to OS3.9 experience.

It's essentially the same, and unlike 3.9 it's still published and could be further developed.

3.9 has been out of the picture for a long time, making it kind of irrelevant IMHO.

@TRIPOS

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Not "has still", 3.9 is dead since eons. Crashed and burned. Revoked. Forever a dead-end. R.I.P.

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it's still published

Like OS3.9...

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and could be further developed.

Well, in comparison to Cloanto´s pace in OS3.X development, even Hyperion looks like Warp 5 starship.

@pavlor

I literally said published (and for good reason, I was making a point about longevity), and you post a link to some left-over NOS stock at a dealer as a "proof of life"? I'm sorry, but the license for 3.9 was revoked eons ago and the publisher (H&P) has explicitly said that they will never touch anything Amiga ever again.

Regarding development, Cloanto's focus has obviously not been on evolving, but preserving the Amiga. However, they are open to suggestions about the future. Anything is on the table, including putting Amiga IP in a foundation.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41932&forum=2&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0#799626

Developers or anyone interested in the future and longevity of the Amiga platform should really contact them and give them some input.

@TRIPOS

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I was making a point about longevity

I see you must be joking... after 15 years this OS3.9 stock is still there. That is longevity!

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Regarding development

Not much changed in OS3.X since I bought Amiga Forever some 10 years ago. As it is today, only OS4 branch sees constant substantial updates. OS3.X is effectively dead-end. Has Cloanto even legal access to OS source code?

Woah! Didn't expect this to degrade LOL I was only after opinions on going for one over another

The main thing I noticed that made me think about 3.X is the SCSI.device allowing for larger than 4GB from the get go reducing reboots etc.


Just my thoughts on the numbering/naming; I think it should have been 3.C so C for Cloanto Would save on the x/X confusion