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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
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spud101 
AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 7-Jul-2017 23:41:22
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2016
Posts: 25
From: Unknown

I also posted this in the Hyperion forum but response is slow if it will even happen.

Trying to set up a nice A4000D AOS4.1 FE classic system.
Recapped Amiga 4000D with ATX PSU, 16 MB fast, 2 MB chip, Kick 3.1
CSPPC + 128MB
Mediator 4000Di MKiii 3,3 v
Bigramplus 256 MB
Highway USB
Voodoo3 3000
RTL8029 NIC

Issue 1: CDROM noet working on secondary IDE cable

I installed it it with CF HDD and CDROM both on primary IDE. But now that it's installed I want a slimline CDROM that only works as master on a secundary IDE cable. I have an unbuffered IDE splitter: http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php ... rerid=4515 which implememts this logic: http://aminet.net/package/docs/hard/4IDE and it works fine with IDEfix software in AOS3.9.

I don't get it to work.
After some more research it appears that in the "Sys:Kickstart/KickLayout-A4000" I had to remove the leading semicolon on the line:
"MODULE Kickstart/A1200/ATAPIismajik" But it appeared already to be uncommented. It doesn't matter whether I keep IDEfix commented or uncomment it in the startup-sequence, the CDROM on the second IDE doesn't work.

How do I proceed, can I simply install the AOS3.x version of IDEFIX?? Or do I have to get it to work differently. I believe a CDfilesystem is already installed with AOS4.1 out of the box right?

Issue 2: I can't get the RTL8029 working

Also the network card works flawlessly in AOS3.9.

On Hyperium forum I read this thread about setting ENVARCs for VENDORID & DEVICEID. http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=728&start=20

No idea if that thread is still valid for the later AOS4.x versions as it is already a bit old.
But trying the ENVARC thing doesn't work or either I don't do it correctly.
I tried both:
- a file unit0 in /envarc/rtl8029.device/ containing the string (without brackets) "VENDORID 0x0008 DEVICEID 0x8029"
- a file unit0 in /envarc/rtl8029.device/ containing the string (without brackets) "VENDORID=0x0008 DEVICEID=0x8029"
- two files: 1) a file VENDORID in /envarc/rtl8029.device/unit0/ containing the string (without brackets) "0x0008" 2) - a file DEVICEID in /envarc/rtl8029.device/unit0/ containing the string (without brackets) "0x8029"

All to no avail, the network card device cannot be opened. Weird thing is that PCiinfo in AOS3.9 shows a different vendorid than Ranger in AOS4.1, see attached images.

AOS4.1 Ranger:


AOS3.9 PCIInfo


Thanks!!

Last edited by spud101 on 07-Jul-2017 at 11:46 PM.
Last edited by spud101 on 07-Jul-2017 at 11:43 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 8-Jul-2017 4:07:49
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8639
From: Greensborough, Australia

@spud101

Issue 1:

Can you get it to boot at all? Even from floppy? If you swap drives around you will need to update the RDB with last unit. Set the drives in the intended order you want. Which helps if you do it first. Load up Media Toolbox. Go through all your units. And see if it picks up a change. If it does save for all units. This was also a 68K OS issue. Or feature you could say.

Stick to the OS4 IDE driver code. And yes CD drives are mounted automatically.

Issue 2:

Did you try running Internet new connection wizard and it didn't find your card?

I've had Ranger give out strange things. On my A1 XE it reported my USB2 card correctly. On my X1000 it thought it was some kind of storage device.

What about the classic ShowConfig? Do they agree?

Last edited by Hypex on 08-Jul-2017 at 04:10 AM.

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spud101 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 8-Jul-2017 19:44:41
#3 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2016
Posts: 25
From: Unknown

Thanks for the extensive answer!

Everything runs fine, a4k boots from hdd and from floppy. When inserting a cd it spins up quickly, but it does not continue to spin to read data. I'll take a look with media toolbox.

Same with showconfig, I'll give that a try. And yes card is not recognised.

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Hypex 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 9-Jul-2017 17:09:59
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8639
From: Greensborough, Australia

@spud101

Cheers:

Short and extensive? New for me.

Okay just to backtrack:
Quote:
After some more research it appears that in the "Sys:Kickstart/KickLayout-A4000" I had to remove the leading semicolon on the line:
"MODULE Kickstart/A1200/ATAPIismajik"


A4000 one file and A1200 the next?

The file should be just "SYS:Kickstart/KickLayout" from your OS4 boot volume. Where the ATAPIismajik line should activated. It could be named better.

So check that, save any changes and hard reboot. Or turn off and on as OS4 Kickstart needs to reload. Unless Classic has Ctrl-Alt-Alt hot key?

Now in Media Toolbox your CD drive should show up. If not something is wrong. Also you may need that 0x1FE00 max transfer setting but it should be selected already. Or you likely would have had volume errors by now.

Quote:
- a file unit0 in /envarc/rtl8029.device/


What's this Linux path name doing on your Amiga?

Try this one:
SetENV SAVE rtl8029.device/unit0 "VENDORID=0x0008"

Device ID matches but if still gives trouble try this:
SetENV SAVE rtl8029.device/unit0 "VENDORID=0x0008 DEVICEID=0x8029"

Normal OS4 reboot should be fine if driver has already loaded. Hope it goes well. OS3.9 tends to be more tolerable with hardware I've noticed on a friends A4000 machine.

It looks like Ranger has taken the Subsystem ID and Vendor ID and combined them as the Vendor. There's 00 in one and 08 in the other.

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spud101 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 12-Jul-2017 22:34:59
#5 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2016
Posts: 25
From: Unknown

Thanks again. Unfortunately I made no progress :(

Quote:
A4000 one file and A1200 the next?

:) Typo, obviously I did all in the respective a4000 files.

Issue 1 (2nd IDE cable not working)
- Media Tools does not see CDROM, somehow I get the feeling it simply doesn't scan the second IDE cable. Updating RDB doesn't help.
- In startup-sequence I commented "C:ATA3.driver QUIET" out and kept IDEFix commented out
- In Sys:Kickstart/KickLayout-A4000" "MODULE Kickstart/A4000/ATAPIismajik" is still uncommented
- I even removed My BigRAMplus and Highway USB zorro card
- I played around with the jumpers of the CDROM drive (master, slave, cableselect)

CF (master and only drive on 1st IDE cable) partitions (2x SFS & 1x SWAP) are all set with correct maxtransfer and blocksize 512 bytes

All to no avail :(

In AOS3.9 it still works without problems

Issue 2 (RTL8029 not working)

Quote:
What's this Linux path name doing on your Amiga?

Hehehe, I always work my ENVARCs via DOPUS4, there they are treated as drawers and files

Also here no success yet:
- I tried your suggested ENVARCs
- I tried network also without the BigRAMplus and Highway USB zorro card
- ShowConfig in AOS4.1 shows same info as Ranger
- ShowConfig in AOS3.9 only shows zorro entries for the Mediator bridgeboard and memory (like in early startup menu) and no PCI info

And here as well in AOS3.9 it still works without problems

Hyperion forums is still quiet :(


BTW how do I get that splash screen back on startup that you have when you just installed AOS4.1, that shows "install internet, install extras, install AHI, etc."?

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Hypex 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 15-Jul-2017 17:36:51
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8639
From: Greensborough, Australia

@spud101

Issue 1 (2nd IDE cable not working)

Quote:
- In startup-sequence I commented "C:ATA3.driver QUIET" out and kept IDEFix commented out


I don't have a real A4000 with a PPC. Just a real A4000. So tried to duplicate the setup in FSUAE. But couldn't get it going. Too hard to configure, GUI is limited. Also confusing. Keeps adding configs and can't see how to remove them. Plus it forgets things.

Quote:
- In startup-sequence I commented "C:ATA3.driver QUIET" out and kept IDEFix commented out


I see this. From your setup I would keep IDEFix enabled. Since you need that second IDE bus working.

Quote:
- In Sys:Kickstart/KickLayout-A4000" "MODULE Kickstart/A4000/ATAPIismajik" is still uncommented


Any docs for this? None on my emulated classic install. Great information there!

Quote:
- I played around with the jumpers of the CDROM drive (master, slave, cableselect)


Keep it as specific. Master in this case for one drive. And set the same on drive.

Issue 2 (RTL8029 not working)

Quote:
Hehehe, I always work my ENVARCs via DOPUS4, there they are treated as drawers and files


I understand. But still. It wouldn't exactly be using "/envarc" in DOpus.

We have a built in ENV: now. So things in ENVARC: should appear in ENV: on boot. And you should be able to see that "rtl8029.device" drawer in the top level of the ENVARC: directory. As well as ENV:.

Tried manual setup as well? In that New Connection Wizard, you can pick LAN connection, Manual configuration next, then you should see a list of devices. Pick yours off the list, making sure it is using same unit 0. And test.

Last edited by Hypex on 16-Jul-2017 at 04:25 PM.
Last edited by Hypex on 15-Jul-2017 at 05:39 PM.

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Morphix 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 16-Jul-2017 3:54:23
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Aug-2009
Posts: 433
From: Greece


Quote:
The file should be just "SYS:Kickstart/KickLayout"


As I read above changes were made to the KickLayout-4000 file.

But as already mentioned the KickLayout file is the one that should be edited.

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spud101 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 16-Jul-2017 17:41:01
#8 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2016
Posts: 25
From: Unknown

@Morphix

Quote:
But as already mentioned the KickLayout file is the one that should be edited.


Unfortunately that didn't do the trick.

I ended up installing IDEfix97 and now it works. I'm only wondering what I know have installed double, i.e. cd filessystem and other stuff. Hoping this will not conflict or prevent me from potentially more advanced features from built in AOS4.1 CDROM functionality.

Network is next. I'll try some different jumper settings on the mediator bridgeboard (SWAP & PCI memory space).

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Hypex 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 17-Jul-2017 15:28:18
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8639
From: Greensborough, Australia

@spud101

Quote:
I ended up installing IDEfix97 and now it works.


Oh no! So the built in IDEFix didn't work? If you had to modify your Startup-Sequence that's too far and the OS4 team has failed you. User-Startup is okay as always but the Startup-Sequence should be kept to OS4 system programs. From the experience of others OS4 Classic has had problems for years and some things some should be automatic but are not.

Quote:
Hoping this will not conflict or prevent me from potentially more advanced features from built in AOS4.1 CDROM functionality.


Did you also install a third party CDROM filesystem? Easy enough to remove it. OS4 CDFileSystem is in Kickstart. I don't know if you're missing much. No multi-volume support. I burnt a lot of these on my A1200 with MakeCD. It does UDF but nor BR. Supposedly supports HFS but I've never got it to work and there are two conflicting CDFS docs causing confusion. Seems the code was put in there but no one made up a HFS CD to test so no one knows if it works or which key works. I suppose the docs work then by cancelling each other out.

Quote:
Network is next.


So auto and manual yield no results?

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spud101 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 17-Jul-2017 16:27:46
#10 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2016
Posts: 25
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Quote:
Oh no! So the built in IDEFix didn't work?


Unfortunately the built in IDEFix support was limited to those out-commented lines in the startup sequence. There was no trace of it anywhere on the System partition where AOS4.1 was installed nor on the install CDROM. That's why I decided to try IDEFix97.

Quote:
So auto and manual yield no results?


No, I tried that before, both with DHCP and with fixed IP. I'll try the environment settings once more. After that I will play with the mediator jumpers.

I currently have them as follows:
Master: Closed
Winsize: Open (< 256 MB)
Swap: Closed (I think, don't remember 100%)

And do I have to change the Winsize jumper when I later on install Update 1 and use my BigRAMplus 256 MB as FastRAM?

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spud101 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 17-Jul-2017 23:16:17
#11 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2016
Posts: 25
From: Unknown

OK, so I give up with the rtl8029 PCI card. I can't get it to work.
I tried several ENV: settings.
I tried multiple jumper configs on the mediator board.
Nothing works. Maybe I still need to use different VENDORID/DEVICEID settings? The card shows the following:
HT-2100PCI on a sticker and HT-8029as on the PCB.

I tried with my AriadneII card and that thing worked flawlessly in AOS4.1. But I can't use that one, I need the space for other stuff. Would a combination of X-Surf 1000 & RapidRoad work?

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kolla 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 18-Jul-2017 12:10:17
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 685
From: Trondheim, Norway

@spud101

Why not use a cheap USB ethernet adapter with the highway?

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Hypex 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 18-Jul-2017 16:34:51
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8639
From: Greensborough, Australia

@spud101

Quote:
That's why I decided to try IDEFix97.


So I examined a Classic CD. It is missing. Which leads me to believe from examing startup scripts that it is in fact not supported directly by OS4. But requires IDEFix. I thought this would have been built in. Best to use the IDEFix code from the original OS4 Startup-Sequence. And have the command installed.

Quote:
And do I have to change the Winsize jumper when I later on install Update 1 and use my BigRAMplus 256 MB as FastRAM?


I don't know exactly. I'll see if there is any info I can gleam.

For now your best is to consult the Classic FAQ guide on the root of the OS4 CD. With your PCI cards in mind, and hardware setup, check the lists inside. There are A4000 and Mediator settings.

Quote:
Maybe I still need to use different VENDORID/DEVICEID settings?


Maybe. What happens if you enter this command in a shell from fresh boot?

Dir ENV:rtL#? all


Quote:
Would a combination of X-Surf 1000 & RapidRoad work?


I've read it can be done. But without a native OS4 driver an X-Surf can be buggy. And needs to be in Z2 mode. I don't know why OS4 drivers are not written these days.

Check this thread:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=75924

Last edited by Hypex on 19-Jul-2017 at 03:47 PM.
Last edited by Hypex on 19-Jul-2017 at 03:35 PM.
Last edited by Hypex on 18-Jul-2017 at 04:36 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 20-Jul-2017 14:48:54
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8639
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kolla

I think the simplest explanation is that the card works. It works in OS3.9. And so it should work in OS4.1 as well. I don't know how there is an easy working driver for OS3.9 and not for OS4. Seems more collaboration is needed.

I also don't know why a PCI device list file isn't used to determine chip sets. The debug output of "Looking for 1002: xxxx" just looks bad. Why isn't there a PCI scanner that builds a list of what cards are inserted rather than do it backwards and check for each card? Doesn't look very efficient.

I wonder if this also relates to the Mediator design of using graphic memory for DMA transfers. Be that a hardware design or controller software. This was meant to be a small post.

Last edited by Hypex on 20-Jul-2017 at 02:50 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 21-Jul-2017 16:49:09
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10691
From: Norway

@Hypex

The same Vender ID and Devices ID are used on different product it's not 100% reliable.

That’s way its called plug and pray not plug and play

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spud101 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 21-Jul-2017 19:53:23
#16 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2016
Posts: 25
From: Unknown

I've never been a fan of USB network cards.'

I've ordered 3 more RTL8029as cards (from different brands) for 10 euro in total, so gonna try those first. If none work I may switch to the X-Surf 100 option

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Hypex 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 22-Jul-2017 14:23:45
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8639
From: Greensborough, Australia

@spud101

If it helps. From the Classic FAQ guide.


For Mediator 4000, 4000Di, or 3/4000T boards, put the Graphics Card in the second to
bottom slot, the slot labeled PCI2. It is OK to place a Realtek 8029 based PCI network
card in the first PCI slot closest to the Mediator Logic board, the slot labled PCI1, but
do not place a SATA card or Sound Card in that slot.

...

For Mediator 4000, 4000Di, 3/4000T from bottom to top:

Mediator PCI 4000 Slot: Mediator Logic board (Bottom Slot)

PCI1: Nework Card

PCI2: Graphics Card

PCI3: Sound Card

PCI4: SATA Card (Top Slot)

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spud101 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 24-Jul-2017 15:04:18
#18 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2016
Posts: 25
From: Unknown

Thanks Hypex!

I tried that already, including other positions. New cards are on the way to me so hopefully more success soon.

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HammerD 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 25-Jul-2017 20:45:33
#19 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2003
Posts: 898
From: Ontario, Canada

@spud101

The RTL8029 doesn't appear to be identified properly under OS4. It could be due to address space limitations. I would remove the BigRAM to see if it changes anything with respect to the RTL8029 card. OS3 and OS4 handle address space differently.

The other issue is that the OS4 RTL8029 driver may not support your particular card. You mentioned the variables. If that doesn't work try what I mentioned above (remove the BigRAM), or another card. The OS3 and OS4 driver for the RTL8029 are totally different.

With regards to IDE devices. OS4.x Classic has very basic support for IDE devices and it is best to stick to the existing A4000 IDE cable and not use splitter devices (which as you have found out may not work). In my A4000 I have an IDE hard disk and a slimline laptop-style CD which works on the original IDE cable with a small adapter similar to this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-PIN-JAE-CD-ROM-DVD-ROM-to-IDE-adapter-Laptop-Notebook-VC-/182562267065?hash=item2a818f1fb9:g:7wkAAOSwax5Y2Mq2

Last edited by HammerD on 25-Jul-2017 at 08:48 PM.
Last edited by HammerD on 25-Jul-2017 at 08:47 PM.

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Dandy 
Re: AOS 4.1 FE Classic IDE & Network issues
Posted on 27-Jul-2017 7:07:17
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@spud101

Quote:

spud101 wrote:

I also posted this in the Hyperion forum but response is slow if it will even happen.

Trying to set up a nice A4000D AOS4.1 FE classic system.
Recapped Amiga 4000D with ATX PSU, 16 MB fast, 2 MB chip, Kick 3.1
CSPPC + 128MB
Mediator 4000Di MKiii 3,3 v
Bigramplus 256 MB
Highway USB
Voodoo3 3000
RTL8029 NIC

Issue 1: CDROM not working on secondary IDE cable
...
Thanks!!



Hmmm - I have a setup that is quite similar to yours.
Just that I don't have slow "fastRAM" onboard, my Mediator is 5V, I have Deneb USB instead of Highway and a Voodoo4. Not sure regarding the NIC - mine is a 10/100 mBit one with RTL chip that runs in the 100 mBit mode with OS 3.9/WarpOS.

But the most significant difference in our setups is that you use IDE, while I exclusively use the UW-SCSI on the CSPPC. Aside from one UW-SCSI harddisk, all my other devices are IDE-devices connected via ACARD UW-IDE adaptors to the SCSI chain.

The benefit is that SCSI operations don't put load on the 68060@50 cpu, while IDE operations do. So the system is more responsive with the UW-SCSII on the CSPPC.

You possibly wouldn't have these CD drive issues, if you used the UW-SCSI host adaptor on your CSPPC...

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