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/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  The race is on V4 or A1222
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PosterThread
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 3-Aug-2017 23:07:48
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@ferrels

Quote:
....but waiting for it doesn't say much about one's intelligence.


Well that was low.... this says lot about you I think...

Well what other options do we have really, what other hardware support the latest Radeon hd cards, and has support for SATA2 and DDR3 memory, USB2 or USB3?

None, so you make no sense at all, to me.

I don't see AROS taking off, so what is your solution besides bitching?

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2017 at 11:22 PM.

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ferrels 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 3-Aug-2017 23:24:30
#42 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 922
From: Arizona

@NutsAboutAmiga

I already gave you 2 solutions. Contact A-EON and Hyperion. You can also try to get answers from them here by posting questions which in most cases will go unanswered. If you try asking any questions over at Amiga.org that are even remotely critical of OS4 or about a lack of progress, you get banned for 5 months.

Another option is to take your money elsewhere for your Amiga fix. Buy legacy PPC hardware which is cheaper than a Tabor and even outperforms it, or buy a Vampire. You can get those systems now and they work. No waiting, no excuses and reasonable pricing.

I've found the only 2 things that motivate most companies are money, and bitching.

Last edited by ferrels on 03-Aug-2017 at 11:25 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 3-Aug-2017 23:26:04
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@ferrels

"Buy legacy PPC hardware", but MorphOS does not support RadionHD cards so that does help.

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ferrels 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 3-Aug-2017 23:27:19
#44 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 922
From: Arizona

@NutsAboutAmiga


BTW, my comment about intelligence wasn't directed at you. It was a generality and I apologize if it seemed as if it was meant for you. You're obviously intelligent and bi-lingual.

Last edited by ferrels on 03-Aug-2017 at 11:27 PM.

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ferrels 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 3-Aug-2017 23:32:20
#45 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 922
From: Arizona

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
"Buy legacy PPC hardware", but MorphOS does not support RadionHD cards so that does help.


That's a valid point, but are there really any killer 3D apps for MOS or OS4 anyway? Gone are the days when Amigas were known for their killer graphics.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 3-Aug-2017 23:48:43
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@ferrels

Quote:
I've found the only 2 things that motivate most companies are money, and bitching.


"bug reports" are helpful, bitching is not, well it's better to be informed about problems, then not being informed about problem, you won't get any stars in my book by acting like that, over and over again, I just call you cry baby and hang up on you.

there catch 22 problem, not lot money, not lot development.

You put came to me with lots cash asking me to make some drivers something I be really motivated to make that happen, like any other job, I require work security, and as employ or contract worker I constructive about being able to have constructive work relation.

The other day I sitting in Peppes Pizza restaurant, ordering a Pizza, and was listening to two people taking, and I was think, man I'm happy I'm not working for this people, they taking about there customers, they taking about their employees bad way, and taking about company things probably should be covered by disclosure agreement. I was think what bush unprofessional twats.

I won't work for people like that. maybe I'm being picky in my old age, but Bitches don't motivate me.

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Rob 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 0:01:23
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@ferrels

Quote:
2 years to write and debug audio and NIC drivers is ridiculous.


It's not like anyone working on the OS is employed full time and the hardware was only shown booting Amiga OS just over 8 months ago.
At a guess based, on Amiboing 's February video, developers other that Thomas and Hans-Jörg have probably had access to OS4 for Tabor for around 6 months. Developers have limited time for OS4 development outside their day jobs and that my be divided between work on OS4, personal projects and paid contract work for A-EON. I would however assume that audio and NIC drivers are currently at the top of the list of priorities of the developers responsible for writing them. It's fair to say that they haven't had 2 years to work on them.

Quote:
Hyperion is either incompetent or A-EON is delaying the manufacture and release of the Tabor boards until the price drops significantly for the Tabor's CPU since they announced the 400 Euro price 2 years ago


It's down to limited resources rather than competence. The possible 400 euro price tag from only spoken at last years Amwest, not 2 years ago. 1000 boards were already manufactured before that point anyway. The hardware is ready to go when the OS is.

Quote:
You guys have just bought into all the same tired excuses from A-EON and Hyperion.


It's basic economics. Less money equals less resources.

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iggy 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 0:50:12
#48 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@ferrels

You're being much nicer to these guys than I would.
Frankly, this has to be one of the dumbest thread topics I've seen posted in a really long time.

Unobtainable product A (with no floating point unit) versus unobtainable product B (with a crappy floating point unit).

Don't you guys really have anything better to do?

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Overflow 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 0:58:10
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

@iggy

I should take your advice and insult people instead. Much more productive.

You doing the same on Aorg. So talk about "not having anything better to do".

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gregthecanuck 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 1:14:43
#50 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 846
From: Vancouver, Canada

@thread

Yay another thread starting to go off the rails.

From our collective OS4 and OS3 experiences I think I can say that getting device drivers working and debugged is very difficult and a specialized task.

With the new V4 Vampire the same challenge is there. It now has USB and Ethernet ports. How long until stable drivers appear? I guess we will found out.

2 more weeks.... ;)

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ferrels 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 2:42:10
#51 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 922
From: Arizona

@iggy

Quote:
You're being much nicer to these guys than I would. Frankly, this has to be one of the dumbest thread topics I've seen posted in a really long time. Unobtainable product A (with no floating point unit) versus unobtainable product B (with a crappy floating point unit). Don't you guys really have anything better to do?


+1

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ferrels 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 2:44:37
#52 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 922
From: Arizona

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
I won't work for people like that. maybe I'm being picky in my old age, but Bitches don't motivate me.


When the bitching doesn't work, the money sure does. Especially when they see you starting to spend it elsewhere.

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ferrels 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 3:05:30
#53 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 922
From: Arizona

@Rob

Quote:
It's not like anyone working on the OS is employed full time and the hardware was only shown booting Amiga OS just over 8 months ago. It's basic economics. Less money equals less resources.


Tell that to the novice, hobbyist programmer who developed the first Amiga softFPU, Jari Eskelinen. He completed that project in 3-5 weeks and isn't getting a dime out of it. He has a day job too so he can't work on Amigas full time either.

As for fair, yes it is fair to say they've had 2 years to work on the drivers. I'm sure that as soon as the first dev board pictured in the announcement back in 2015 left the photo shoot, it was in the hands of a developer. So again it appears to be a matter incompetence or a sales strategy by A-EON to wait for CPU prices to fall. I don't believe for a minute that they had 1000 boards created nearly 2 years ago and they're just sitting on them until drivers are ready any more than I believe that the Xena co-processor for the X1000 was useful for anything other than a marketing ploy.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 5:08:00
#54 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 846
From: Vancouver, Canada

@ferrels

I believe we actually saw photos of the "stacks" of A1222 boards that had been built in a posting somewhere. I have no doubt the production run has taken place.

But a big shame for sure that the drivers are taking so long. I am sure Trevor is really enjoying seeing all his capital tied up in inventory. The opportunity cost just keeps growing...



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utri007 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 5:25:54
#55 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2003
Posts: 1074
From: United States of Europe

This is dumb thread. There is no competition between vampire and A1222. Target is different set of people.

Hopefully nobody don't wait Vampire to be general use desktop, it isn't and it will never be.

Generally speaking, there was a problmen when people waited too much from OS4. It is hobby OS with limited software catalog. In these days people who buy it, prety much everyone understand it's limitations now a days.

A1222 release is has took some time, ques because there has to be drivers for every device on board, before release. It has only one PCIe slot.

Vampire has large software catalog, but those apps are 99,9% more than 25 years old. Thats why I don't understand why compatibility is not their first priority? In current state has about 25-200mhz 68060 performance. I ques future it will have performance equivalent to 400-500mhz 68060. Price will be more than 350 euros. Did they talk about 600 euros some time ago?


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ferrels 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 7:14:09
#56 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 922
From: Arizona

@gregthecanuck

Quote:
I believe we actually saw photos of the "stacks" of A1222 boards that had been built in a posting somewhere.


You saw photos that could have been stacks of pizzas for all we know. I find it ludicrous that any businessman would order 1000 boards to sit and wait for an OS and drivers to be tailored for it. That doesn't pass the common sense test. Doing that would run the risk of having 1000 useless/worthless boards.

Typically a hardware vendor orders a small production run of 10 or 20 boards for developers and once the developers work out the kinks, then an order for a much larger run is dropped to supply the customers. Anyone who does otherwise in the computer industry would be considered an idiot.

Last edited by ferrels on 04-Aug-2017 at 07:14 AM.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 7:37:44
#57 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 846
From: Vancouver, Canada

@ferrels

I expect the boards were tested/debugged under Linux and the green light was given for the production run after that. I presume there was an expectation that the OS4 drivers would not take as long as they have. I don't know why anyone would lie about that - makes no sense? It isn't a good thing to be sitting on a pile of inventory.

I am sure if the team in charge of the A1222 had the chance they would do things differently. Even in my own business we have done some costly things or gotten our priorities and timing wrong (in hindsight). But that is all part of the 'fun'.

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WolfpackN64 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 7:47:09
#58 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Oct-2016
Posts: 300
From: Unknown

@ferrels

That's not what I meant. The FPAssist library already exists, which enables the SPE to use general purpose registers to fill in most FPU instructions and traps instructions it can't perform and does these in software.

Problem is probably porting or designing similar libraries to these over from QNX.
So yes, the SPE FPU isn't the smartest choice. But it isn't a problem.

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OlafS25 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 8:37:31
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@pavlor

if it keeps the order then 2019

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OlafS25 
Re: The race is on V4 or A1222
Posted on 4-Aug-2017 8:39:21
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@ferrels

the truth was it was a one-man show in reality

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