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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4 Hardware
      /  Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
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PosterThread
AmigaOldskooler 
Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 8:42:06
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2015
Posts: 118
From: Unknown

Hi guys,

I'm considering buying an AmigaOS 4 system. I've been waiting for the Tabor for quite a while, but I'm wondering if I should just get a Sam 460 right now instead. Anyone knows how these compare performance wise? If the Sam 460 is as good as the Tabor, I'll take the plunge now I think, can't stand waiting anymore. Have previously owned Sam440 and Flex, now on emulation sadly.

Thanks in advance for your help guys.

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WolfpackN64 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 8:46:19
#2 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Oct-2016
Posts: 286
From: Unknown

@AmigaOldskooler

Since The A1222 isn't out yet, that's hard to compare. But the consensus is the A1222 will have a generally faster CPU, but a weaker FPU.

It also seems ACube doesn't have the SAM boards in stock anymore.

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pavlor 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 9:08:03
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@AmigaOldskooler

Wait few months more. Once Tabor is released, user reviews and benchmarks will show its strong and weak sides. By specs, Tabor should be better buy for better price. I hope A1222 will be released around AmiWest this year, which is only 2 months far from present.

And of course, it will be hard to find new A1-500 right now.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 10:15:50
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10736
From: Norway

@WolfpackN64

Quote:
but a weaker FPU


I'm not sure that's correct, its different kind of FPU, I expect it be good idea to recompile the programs for A1222.

https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-6.4.0/gcc/PowerPC-Built-in-Functions.html

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Aug-2017 at 10:20 AM.

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WolfpackN64 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 10:21:45
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Oct-2016
Posts: 286
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

The SPE's are very good at specific functions. If they use an FPassist library, as long as the program uses the general registers it won't be a problem. But other functions will have to be trapped and executed in software, which can cause slowdowns.

I don't expect everyone to recompile their software specifically for the SPE, so I meant programs that make general use of the FPU.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 10:41:43
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10736
From: Norway

@WolfpackN64

Quote:
If they use an FPassist library, as long as the program uses the general registers it won't be a problem


Well if jump to function inside library,

you wast a lot of instruction on seting up pointer to library, and offset to the function,
and update stack pointer,
Execute the code.
Then restore the stack pointer
Then return to where you where before.

So code like that, will have lot overhead.
So if you're going to do that it should lot more then one FPU instruction. Sure it can compensate with having fast CPU.

But it's lot better to just recompile your programs for CPU you have, instead mocking around with things like that.

You might use C lib and use inline functions this should remove jumps, stack setup, and return instruction, at the expense of slightly bigger code. but that won't make sense at all, for obvious reasons.

Quote:
I don't expect everyone to recompile their software specifically for the SPE, so I meant programs that make general use of the FPU.


At end it depends on how FPU heavy the code is, it might not be noticeable at all, it might big fat belly flop, depending on the program.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Aug-2017 at 10:53 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Aug-2017 at 10:45 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Aug-2017 at 10:42 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 10:55:41
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10736
From: Norway

@AmigaOldskooler

I think it be good idea hold out for few months as well, just see how it runs, if runs ok or better then sam460, get that.

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outrun1978 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 11:35:35
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 357
From: Stockport, England

@AmigaoldSkooler

I still own a Sam460 although now i own the X5000 understandably it is sitting in a cupboard awaiting for me to sort it out ready for re-selling (i need to replace the Envy 24HT soundcard which i added to my X5000 system and also the SIL3512 SATA device) I also have a Radeon 5450 card with it which is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard in today's next gen Amiga market.

The Sam 460 is a nice machine, however in order to get the best out of it, you need to make sure it has an SSD card as your main hard drive and not a standard hard drive, performance with a standard hard drive leaves a lot to be desired.

You also need to make sure that you have a low profile Radeon 7750 series card which can be a little tricky to get hold of and will be the only type of cards to fit the small space on the motherboard. This will ensure you get the latest Warp 3D southern islands drivers and Warp 3D nova.

Performance wise, you can stream or playback videos in 360p and at a push 480p in full screen in Emotion or Mplayer. Forget 720p as you will need an X1000 or X5000. Possibly the A1222 may be able to handle this judging by the upgrade in specs over the Sam 460 but we don't really know just yet.

OS4 game wise, the system is too slow to play games like Speed Dreams or Nexuiz but stuff like Quake II and Aliens Vs Preadator run quite well

Classic game wise, you will find that for some games you will need to download the SDL version of E-UAE to get best performance on the Sam and possibly set the frameskip to 2, even then you may get the odd stuttering sound on games like Lotus 3 or R-Type, i think anything that requires DMA access. The A1222 looks to be an improvement on this

Internet use- Odyssey is usable to an extent, again the better the machine the more you will get out of using Odyssey, so I am guessing the A1222 may be the better option for you based on the current specs.


If someone offers a Sam board at half the price of the Tabor, then maybe have a look at the Sam but be aware of its limitations, else i guess i'd wait for the Tabor especially if you are looking for something with a bit more power to it compared to the Sam.


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AmigaOldskooler 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 12:14:00
#9 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2015
Posts: 118
From: Unknown

@outrun1978

Hi and many thanks for the helpful advice. I think I'll skip considering a Sam 460 and maybe wait for the Tabor. With such performance it reminds me of the Sam Flex-system I had not long ago. I definitely want something more powerful than that. I've been waiting so long (it feels like an eternity) for the Tabor and I fear it will not be out before Christmas, but time will show. Maybe I should just grow a pair and buy an X5000 instead. Love your blog by the way! When I get a new AmigaOS 4 setup (not emulator, hehe), I'll starting posting more on my AmigaOS4Gaming blog again. Thanks again!

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tlosm 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 12:16:55
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@AmigaOldskooler

buy the sam 460. you can find it second hand. will prize less than a tabor and will gave you 99,99% of compatibility in software.
os4 use only one core ... a second or 3 or 4th will be not needed.

x5000 will made you not much happy compared the sam ... check my sign

Last edited by tlosm on 12-Aug-2017 at 12:18 PM.

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K-L 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 12:39:00
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1133
From: Oullins, France

@AmigaOldskooler

Please consider OutRun1978'answers as valid, not tlsom's ones.

Quote:
x5000 will made you not much happy compared the sam
==> LOL. Do not trust this kind of comment at all.

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outrun1978 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 12:41:40
#12 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 357
From: Stockport, England

@tlosm

the x5000 would indeed make quite a few people very happy if they can stretch to it, except perhaps for those who routinely pollute these boards with their usual negative postings, similar to Kim Jong-Un you wonder what exactly would make them happy......

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Rob 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 13:38:32
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5588
From: S.Wales

@outrun1978

Quote:
similar to Kim Jong-Un you wonder what exactly would make them happy......


I expect the Kim Jong-Un is more reasonable and easier to appease than a third-wave feminist.

Back on topic it might be worth getting a 460 if you see one for a good price before the Tabor is available then it might be worthwhile. It's hoped that Tabor is only a few months away but who knows how things will play out and if you get a Radeon SI card and all the drivers they can always be swapped over to a Tabor if you feel the need to get one when it's released.

Last edited by Rob on 12-Aug-2017 at 01:43 PM.

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Beans 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 16:43:37
#14 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 441
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Rob

Quote:
I expect the Kim Jong-Un is more reasonable and easier to appease than a third-wave feminist.


Curious comparison, since I don't feel threatened by radical feminists.
And if Kim Jong-Un isn't careful, he's going to earn immolation for his subjects in reward for his brash actions.
Were it not for consideration for the people of North Korea, I'd be in favor of reducing that area to an irradiated, fused, glassy plain.

Last edited by Beans on 12-Aug-2017 at 04:44 PM.

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WolfpackN64 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 16:46:45
#15 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Oct-2016
Posts: 286
From: Unknown

@Beans

I find it funny how a "Sam 460 or A1222" thread changed to talking about potentially glassing North Korea.

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outrun1978 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 17:06:29
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 357
From: Stockport, England

@Beans

Lets hope ol Kim doesnt end up like his dad....

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwil64iFl9LVAhUDnBoKHRumA1kQyCkIKTAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUEaKX9YYHiQ&usg=AFQjCNHXkyEgLE_7-8Xdr99FfG-YOMcgrg







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tlosm 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 17:24:01
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@K-L

x5000 will prize 9x time more than the sam 460
in any way you will use one core
you will use only 2047 mb of ram
the amigaos actual software dont need much resource in cpu computing except the qt sofware
and couple of emulators... sam gave really good os4 experience.
for what people have to buy x5000 for play little more faster quake?


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amigang 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 17:51:53
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1360
From: Cheshire, England

Like most others have said, I'd wait for Amiwest (October) and hopefully the A1222 will be released or at least we will get an update on its status and you can maybe make a better judgement then.



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K-L 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 17:56:58
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1133
From: Oullins, France

@tlosm

Please, don't speak about topics you don't know.

The only things your are doing with your OS4 configurations are benchmarks (more or less) and running Linux on it.

I for myself am using my X1000 (and my Sam440) on a daily basis for most of my needs. I'm using it not to do benchmarks, not to run Linux on it, not to test and then post results on forums but to feed my needs completly.

So I know the difference between systems. We are not talking about core numbers or memory system but usage. We are not even talking about price.

Sam460 is an excellent system, one of the best that came after all previous AmigaOne and the Sam440s. You can do many things with it.

But it cannot compare with the x5000 much more powerful, much expandable, etc...

I have been testiong a wide variety of OS4 systems (AmigaOne G3, AmigaOne G4, Sam440, Sam460, X1000 and even emulation). And when I had them, I used them on a daily basis with my settings.

Just ask HunoPPC who is developping on both his Sam460 and his AmigaOne X1000, he'll tell you about differences (regarding speed for example).

Try to watch a 720p video on the Sam460 (480p max with frameskip).

So, please, let us answer the question that was asked since we know what we are talking about.

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Beans 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 12-Aug-2017 18:15:20
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 441
From: Bear Delaware USA

@K-L

All that makes sense to me.
Frankly the comparisons between the SAM460 and the A1222 baffle me a bit as they are both a bit weak.
And a comparison to the X1000 or X5000 is pointless, as those are significantly more powerful platforms.

Anyone that is under the impression that the A1222 is a significant improvement over the SAM460, or that it will be an adequate substitute for an X5000 is likely to be bitterly disappointed.

If you accept them for what they are, the SAM460 or A1222 may be adequate, but you really need to temper your expectations.

After all, we're talking about systems that don't play 480p video back well.

Would you accept that in an ARM or X64 based system?

@WolfpackN64

Quote:
I find it funny how a "Sam 460 or A1222" thread changed to talking about potentially glassing North Korea.


I don't find North Korea funny, I find it sad.
Reunification with the South would be of great benefit to the people of that country.

Last edited by Beans on 12-Aug-2017 at 06:18 PM.
Last edited by Beans on 12-Aug-2017 at 06:15 PM.

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