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      /  Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 19-Sep-2017 18:18:52
#241 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10679
From: Norway

@tlosm

Maybe this more to your liking?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3QDk2VCa-8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbK0n5FjvhI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHAelSOF6f0

Way use slow PowerPC G5 for Linux? that is insane.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Sep-2017 at 06:29 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 19-Sep-2017 18:38:37
#242 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2302
From: Amiga land

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Maybe this more to your liking?


nope i prefer a mini pc ... just because is a good alternative when im building something on G5 Quad ...
now im building the kernel, ad write without any issue on this forum .
I dont need a super pc. I have my macbook pro i7 for do "heavy things".
mini pc is just for do something else when the quad is occupy to made something heavy.

This machine is slow only for gaming things note there are not new games here the last was call of duty 2, quake4 for others things that i usually i did it do everything great fast and good.
If i need to play new games i use my consoles.

Dont worry i will not quit the Os4 scene i just will wait a new machine the important for me is that will be not made by A-eon. For now i will use emulators if i miss workbench.

PS: from an ssd on pcie 1.1 1x (2.5 GT/s) the quad need seconds for boot ubuntu mate 16.10.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 19-Sep-2017 19:01:20
#243 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10679
From: Norway

@tlosm

waster cooled system, are cool, and silent, mini or not, well it does take a lot of space, but removes all noisy tiny fans, this great if your like me like to listen to music, and or don't wont headache.

My X1000 is water cooled, remove all the notice, some time I forget to turn it off, as I completely forget its on.

The cooling block is for a old Pentium, the breached need modification, I also figured out how to spring load the CPU block.

Fun but scary project...

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Sep-2017 at 07:02 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 19-Sep-2017 19:04:46
#244 ]
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Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2302
From: Amiga land

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quad is water cooled ... but isnt silent at all

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 19-Sep-2017 19:10:33
#245 ]
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10679
From: Norway

@tlosm

The pump is low setting, so no pump notice, the fans are running slowly, and CPU temperature is way below the max limits. The fans are high quality no notice fans, with rubber between the radiator and fans. Graphics card is also in the water cooling loop, so no fan notice from graphic card.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Sep-2017 at 07:15 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Sep-2017 at 07:11 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 19-Sep-2017 20:10:09
#246 ]
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Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2302
From: Amiga land

@NutsAboutAmiga
here an example ... in this video the quad had an issue .. mine working well noise raise up
only when im compiling or are using the four cpus at max 400%
video

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 19-Sep-2017 20:20:40
#247 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10679
From: Norway

@tlosm

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BoingBear 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 20-Sep-2017 3:40:52
#248 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2015
Posts: 131
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Do you have any pictures or video of your custom X1000 cooling build? I'd love to see how you did it, and maybe some X1000 owners would like to try to duplicate your custom work for their own X1000 systems.

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Srtest 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 20-Sep-2017 15:38:18
#249 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 149
From: Israel, Haderah

@tlosm

"Amigaos and morphos on X5000 for sure work well and are fast. but for me isnt too much"

That pretty much says it all to summarize your approach: a X5k as a G5 beater or not at all.

Isn't the G4 considered stronger in some tests vs the G5? isn't it exactly like comparing the X1k and the X5k?

As far as the talk about Amiga's "worth" I won't even dignify it with a response and I proclaim right here - this is the last time I will justify using a X1k with AOS4.1FEU1 in the year 2017. No amigan should need to continue justifying himself and the trolls could finally go look elsewhere if this site had a moderator. Really, so many forums out there: you have guru3d and rage3d for gfx cards. You have all sorts for benchmarking and htpc. Such powerful machines and great os. Why stick with such a slow machine and depraved os and better - such backwards people that are stuck with their underdeveloped hardware + os? it is a vast net with forums and social media.

My point, man, it that any criticism you have can't be the way you make it out to be. I have criticisms too, I just won't discuss them while needing to defend myself and people like the trolls that say if i'm a 4.1 guy then I'm not a classic guy. That is not the culture I'm willing to have a serious discussion in.

Maybe your way better suits the current atmosphere of shooting arrows and displaying a head in the town's square. You wanted to be delivered - you weren't. I just wanted to get a good feeling again from using an amiga or amiga inspired machine (who cares) with an os that has ties to both the classic way and what's more relevant today. I got that back while having the ability to go back and forth between the current os and the classic one in the same session.

If you wanted a linux machine you should have requested a linux machine and warn users of the machine not fulfilling real world expectations or whatever is the jargon of bashing someone for not having what you expected. Also the gap between buying not one but two X5k and them completely being disillusioned by them is kinda telling. You imagined they were something they were never supposed to be. I hope a machine will make you happy again.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 20-Sep-2017 16:57:57
#250 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2302
From: Amiga land

@Srtest

Quote:
Isn't the G4 considered stronger in some tests vs the G5?


Who had made that test was a lamer, when the g5 born many "sapients" use programs made and optimized for G4 running on G5 ... G5 was totally different compared G4 and was not using all is power because was running just in down compatibility.
If i build something with only 7400 and 7450 instructions i have a value ... when i build something for 970 optimized the value is the double or the triple.
The G5 start become have good performance only when leopard was released and when apple release X code 3.1.x .
On linux i build everything optimized for mine cpu G5 and e5500 where e5500 dont need special optimization just in fpu because miss some math plus dont have numa that 970 have.
P50xx is really much simple cpu compared the 970


for better understand how much the optimizations made the difference:
This is an example euae jit not g5 optimized :

Euae jit not 970 optimized


euae jit 970 optimized

Last edited by tlosm on 20-Sep-2017 at 05:03 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 20-Sep-2017 at 05:01 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 20-Sep-2017 at 05:00 PM.

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
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Beans 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 20-Sep-2017 17:55:41
#251 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 396
From: Bear Delaware USA

@tlosm

Yes, the 970 was designed specifically for the desktop, while the P50XX was designed primarily with communications applications in mind.

But the 970, even in the later dual core versions, draws a lot of power, and, to the best of my knowledge, the 970 cpus are not available from IBM anymore.
IBM pulled most of the technical data for these from their website a couple of years ago.
They did the same with most of the Cell documentation, they just don't seem to be interested in marketing any Power cpu not derived from Power 8 or 9.

And the P5020/P5040 cpus in the X5000 seem entirely adequate for the application we are using them for. Certainly, they are significantly better than the P1022 used in Tabor, as well as having advantages over the older G4 level cpus.

YES, they aren't G5s, and NO the X5000 isn't an ideal Linux platform (frankly, we're struggling to keep the G5 relevant for that use, although its anything but 'slow').

But, I'm still looking forward to purchasing the X5000/40 you have been lucky enough to secure a beta of.
It should be quieter, and draw a lot less power than a quad G5, while supporting the same number of threads.
A 4 lane Gen2 PCI_E video slot will provide only about half the potential bandwidth of the G5's 16 lane Gen 1 slot, but I also use the X8 and X4 slots in my G5, and they are adequate for use with video cards, so I don't anticipate issues with the X5000's video card capability.

I'm more worried about the use of a PCI-E to PCI-E bridge and a PCI-E to PCI bridge, and the complications those will add to our drivers and the obvious reduction in bus throughput they will cause.

In any case, overall, the X5000 platform still looks pretty promising.
I'm keeping my quad G5 , but I can see adding an X5000 to that.

Edit - BTW, I've seen that fan issue with my G5 too. Those fans are damned loud at full speed, aren't they. It went away when I did a cold reboot, so I don't have a clue what causes it either.
But an X5000, even without water cooling, running its fans at full speed is much quieter.
And if modified for water cooling as suggested, with a generous radiator, a slow pump and large fans turning slowly, would be even quieter.

Last edited by Beans on 20-Sep-2017 at 06:01 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 20-Sep-2017 20:04:29
#252 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2302
From: Amiga land

@Beans

Quote:
the best of my knowledge, the 970 cpus are not available from IBM anymore.

yes ibm sell Power8 and Power9 little better cpu compared P50xx


Quote:
A 4 lane Gen2 PCI_E video slot will provide only about half the potential bandwidth of the G5's 16 lane Gen 1 slot, but I also use the X8 and X4 slots in my G5, and they are adequate for use with video cards, so I don't anticipate issues with the X5000's video card capability.


On paper it have to be much faster than my 8x 1.1 pcie slot bus where i have a poor r5 230 2gb compared with 6570 of x5000...
but if i say all in graphic is about 40% more faster than x5000/40 on linux.
and i say for sure on amigaos and morphos you will have a great experience but only because for now there is nothning that will made the gpu used at all it potentials. probably when will be available on amigaos a game like doom3 or quake4 probably you will understand compared with your quad how much slow is the bus

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
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AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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outrun1978 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 20-Sep-2017 20:33:12
#253 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 318
From: Stockport, England

@thread

For those interested in the real purpose of getting an X5000 which is to run classic software as well as Amiga OS4.1 here are some Sysinfo benchmarks for classic software

Without JIT

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1mq6cmv43dgnzzu/sysinfononJIT.jpeg?dl=0


With JIT

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zmn3i28901qeb11/sysinfoJIT.jpeg?dl=0

I should mention this is with E-UAE set up with 256MB of Ram and running a 68040 processor so it would be a tad unfair to compare this to a Vampire set up. We are of course working with the limitations of E-UAE.

Last edited by outrun1978 on 20-Sep-2017 at 08:41 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 20-Sep-2017 21:03:24
#254 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2302
From: Amiga land

@outrun1978

euae jit run well on X5000 on Os4 and fs-uae run well the cd32 games on linux ppc on x5000 too the cpu have good power for emulate the classic good.

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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Hypex 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 21-Sep-2017 15:40:53
#255 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8628
From: Greensborough, Australia

@outrun1978

Wouldn't you want to run the classic software within OS4.1? I mean, if the intention is to use UAE, then it's way cheaper to get a faster computer for the job which likely has a better GUI for configuring it. People keep asking what the killer app is on OS4.1. OS4 IS the killer app. When the X5000 runs OS4 the fastest of any hardware at all you want to use that power.

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BigD 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 21-Sep-2017 16:07:24
#256 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4075
From: UK

@Hypex

Quote:
OS4 IS the killer app.


Yeah, can't beat coming home from work, opening a few windows, rearranging a few icons and snapshoting them in AmigaOS Otherwise life isn't worth living

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wawa 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 21-Sep-2017 16:18:58
#257 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@outrun1978

Quote:
For those interested in the real purpose of getting an X5000 which is to run classic software as well as Amiga OS4.1 here are some Sysinfo benchmarks for classic software


for comparison winuae on my rather old i7 gives me

with jit 2082835 dhrystones 937,30 times equivalent of a600, 174,14 mips and 81,25 mflops

and without 59875 dhrystones 113,18 times equivalent of a600, 62,50 mips and 7,52 mflops

cpu and other settings doesnt matter so much, it is 040 anyway..

Last edited by wawa on 21-Sep-2017 at 04:20 PM.

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outrun1978 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 21-Sep-2017 16:52:22
#258 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 318
From: Stockport, England

@Hypex

The point of my benchmark (aside from being a tongue in cheek post at tlsom's post about his iMac G5 benchmarks) was to show that the type of classic environment that you will be running under on the X5000 is a reasonably quick one certainly the killer app for the x5000 is RuninUAE which makes running your classic software very simple from the OS4.1 desktop and does it in a way that you don't even realise it's emulation.

As you point out too OS4.1 itself is a killer app too on the X5000 thanks to its speed on this machine. The fact a lot of classic productivity software and some RTG based games run natively within 4.1 is also a bonus

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BigD 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 21-Sep-2017 17:07:36
#259 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4075
From: UK

@outrun1978

Quote:
As you point out too OS4.1 itself is a killer app too on the X5000 thanks to its speed on this machine. The fact a lot of classic productivity software and some RTG based games run natively within 4.1 is also a bonus


I still feel uneasy about describing the OS itself as the killer app. Yes, classic compatible emulation layers are great features (as the Classic environment was on OSX Tiger) but it's the software; Lightwave, Pagestream, Deluxe Paint, Scala, Bars & Pipes and Octamed etc that are the true 'killer apps' not the AmigaOS however much we love its quirks.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 21-Sep-2017 18:09:48
#260 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2302
From: Amiga land

@BigD

the killer app that on P5020 use 50% of it power and 25% on P5040

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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