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      /  Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
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Beans 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 23-Sep-2017 19:38:10
#281 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 384
From: Bear Delaware USA

@tlosm

Sorry, I was throwing that (Ryzen) in for perspective.

But I'm not happy with the memory or video card benches we are getting on the X5000.

Some of the video card operations would obviously be improved with DMA, and the memory bandwidth figures Freescale quotes for the P50XX are several times higher than we're getting with the X5000.
I'm can't help but think that there are some firmware issues.

And btw, on support, since you have had to work through Matt Leaman, I CAN understand your frustration.
That same issue almost cost us in the United States our only Aeon distributor.
And since I get immediate answers from Aaron at AOTL, losing his assistance would have probably soured me on the entire idea of buying an X5000.

No one should EVER question your opinion on AmigaKit support, its definitely sub par.

And our beta tester and the early adopters shouldn't have been the ones to figure out which CMI8738 audio cards work (and which don't).
Further, onboard network drivers should be done before the machine is released (then again, ask an X1000 owner about that fiasco).
But, I have heard from a reliable source that the X5000 will get native NIC support soon.

The lack of that on the X1000 is a lingering black eye on the entire Aeon AmigaOne project.
Continued support for older platforms should be a given.
And let's not forget, X1000 owners are still due a copy of OS4.2, which WILL be released (how much longer it will take is anyone's guess, but it IS being worked on).

SO, keep the benchmarks coming. I want the info, so I know what needs to be addressed. And we'll PUSH for answers addressing those issues.
Because a basic principle in business is that one dissatisfied customer affects at least 12 other potential customers.
So, feedback needs to be acted on (apparently Matt doesn't get that).

Last edited by Beans on 23-Sep-2017 at 08:21 PM.
Last edited by Beans on 23-Sep-2017 at 07:39 PM.

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Srtest 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 23-Sep-2017 20:43:57
#282 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 144
From: Israel, Haderah

@Beans

I keep hearing all that stuff on Amigakit. I don't know about other people's experience with amigakit but this overseas customer was very satisfied. I keep telling people of the support I got and still getting on the linux level (which is a bonus in my view). I'm reffering both the shipment and getting the help via the ticket system. Maybe you have near perfect standards - I don't. I prefer a warm attitude to having it tick-tocking like a swiss clock.

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Beans 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 23-Sep-2017 21:06:35
#283 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 384
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Srtest

I prefer companies that answer their 800 number support lines or at least have a system to record messages if they aren't going to offer the courtesy of answering those telephone inquiries themselves.

Also, as far as 'tick-tock' goes, I DO appreciate timely responses.

For example, I emailed Aaron Smith at Amiga On The Lake this morning, and he called me back in person less than an hour later.
THAT is your 'warm attitude', NOT ignoring inquiries from customers.

So...if I buy Aeon products, its from AOTL not directly from Aeon's distributor AmigaKit, because I know Trevor appreciates my business, and I know Aaron does as well, BUT I don't get those 'warm fuzzies' you seem to get from Matt and company.

AND, I'm not alone in this opinion.

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Srtest 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 23-Sep-2017 21:14:14
#284 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 144
From: Israel, Haderah

@Beans

Okay as always, i'm not disregarding your sentiment. For me a personal touch is the way the whole case + machine arrived from the overseas trip and the way I discussed matters via a supposed technical system like the ticket system with the added help of the Hyperion forums. The word I would use is smooth. For me it was a personal touch that smoothed my transition back into this small habitat of ours. I'm not telling this to support this or that. Everyone are big boys. To me that is simply the truth. You have a difference of opinion or an alternative experience with the same guys I'm talking about. What can I say? just telling what happened where I sit which is a different continent where things much smaller and less expensive than a X1k went to crap because of the way they arrived.

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Signal 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 23-Sep-2017 21:38:45
#285 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 508
From: USA

@Thread
This thread illuminates the glaring difference between what is an Amiga and what is an Amiga Wanna Be. HARDWARE.

Just take a look at all that is available, both now and in the past including those companies that have long since disappeared, for the Amiga line of computers. Then compare that with what is available, and working, for the W-B systems that have been around for 15 years already.

Sickening?

Somewhere along the line enough people decided that everything could, and should, be done with software and the available hardware has been only minimally exploited. I can understand the business model, but it is just not working.

Oh, you can buy a low cost standard PCI(e) card, then wait for support if enough people want to use the same card, and then pray the OS/API does not change and make that card useless. Then when your card is fully supported............it's no longer available. Whereas a custom card on a more flexible bus may cost more but remain usable for a much longer period of time.

AmigaNG systems do exist. However, they are built upon a weak foundation. IMHO.

IS the X5000 worth the price? To each his own.

_________________
A1-X1000, x86 Linux, RaspberryPi 3 Linux

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Srtest 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 23-Sep-2017 21:49:29
#286 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 144
From: Israel, Haderah

@Signal

Oh yes go against amd and nvidia LOL. Wanna go against creative as well? even creative are not going against creative nowdays... You need to pick and choose. The old school R-E-A-L amiga developers said as much about the combination between custom or "genuine" hardware and available standards or as Haynie said it: "we would have definitelly used usb and stuff like that". You can even go along the lines of saying that the super-custom mode of the amiga was what killed it and the speed in which the market that saw its birth, changed and didn't translate back to another c-o-m-p-u-t-i-n-g model not a business one. So yeah, the romance was gone but the user base was still there. Today you have to grow it from scratch as there are not a lot of crazies like me that actually follow through on their dreams (at least in one aspect). Most people crave for nostalgia if you wanna talk about a certain busines model.

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Beans 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 23-Sep-2017 22:49:05
#287 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 384
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Srtest

I'm not saying that some of you aren't getting better technical support than others.
And as a MorphOS user, I probably shouldn't admit this (as it would rile some older user's feathers), but I've had no problem contacting Ben Hermans directly.
I have his and Trevor Dickinson's personal email addresses.
But it does bug me that in order to interact with AmigaKit, I have to enter a ticket. That they have an 800 number for support, but they don't answer it, and there's no option for leaving a message.
And using forums for advice? That's a given, at least by us, but it shouldn't be how support works with your vendor.
Its not professional, and I've been in retail, have a BS in Business Management, and I'm working on my MBA.
Good customer support leads to recommendations that gain you new customers, bad customer experience actually lead to a larger loss than good experiences gain you.
So neglecting customer support is a really bad method of operation for long term survival.

If there were more vendors in the market, I think AmigaKit would face a backlash from this situation.
As it is, I can't help but wonder if some of the shrinkage in our user base isn't due to how they are treated by our vendors (the few that remain).

Hey, I KNOW the customer base is small, and that profits are minimal, so I appreciate that they are there at all.
But I still think we could treat those customers better, and that it might lead to more growth in our market.
After all, can you think of a better 'retro' platform? I can't.
If they can successfully sell Atari 2600 clones (and those games really suck in my opinion), our retro hardware should be flying off the shelves.
And with the interest in alternative computing platforms, the only thing I see holding back NG is the price of entry.

Looking at it from a more distant perspective, I can't help but think our motto ought to be "Amiga, we REALLY know how to shoot ourselves in the foot!"

Last edited by Beans on 23-Sep-2017 at 10:50 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 0:59:32
#288 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2301
From: Amiga land

@Srtest

I understand that you are happy about this numbers like Spectre is... but me not. sorry
im not happy of all issue found and for have this number in 2017 ...
If this number comes in 2004 or 2005 can be ok... but not now.
plus pay more than 2000 for this numbers is insane...

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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Beans 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 1:50:15
#289 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 384
From: Bear Delaware USA

@tlosm

Yeah, those X1000 figures are painful, especially when you compare the X5000 to them, and you realize the X1000 has much better video performance.

Then there is the issue of available PCI-E lanes, which are Gen2 on the X5000, but there are a LOT more Gen1 PCI-E lanes 18 in total on the X1000 motherboard, giving it a full X16 video slot OR two X8 video slots (as opposed to an X4 video slot).
Finally, there's the late 2005 PCI-E PowerMac G5 (AKA the 11,2) with 32 PCI-E lanes, and an X16, X8, X4, X4 slot configuration.
SO much better than either the X1000 or X5000.

SO, I won't argue with you about the superiority of the G5 platform.

I'll only point out that I can't convince the MorphOS development team to port to the 11,2 (and I doubt Hyperion is going to start supporting Macs), while they are supporting the X5000.
SO if I want an NG system with PCI-E expansion, I'm kind of stuck with the X5000/40 (because I'm NOT buying Tabor, its less powerful than my older G4 PowerMacs).

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Srtest 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 3:08:35
#290 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 144
From: Israel, Haderah

@Beans

At first I thought this man expected this and that just like tlosm here etc etc. However, then I thought about it again and you know what? your grievances are not with the amigakit people but with this entire community. I appreciate your response as thriving to perfection under the umbrella of the small community/companies of amigaland. Well, on other platforms you can take 10,000 costumers and have a single issue but you know what? that can also happen if you deal only with 100 costumers.

That reminded me of something my mom asked about the amiga and it was simple - why? how do I explain my self to my mom? I then asked her - at work, do you have feelings for your computer? she looked at me funny but that is a precise way of explaining all of this: why we have this important discussion and why I care. If you can find on a single forum from other platforms, a single user that cares if another one had a bad experience, I won't add a single word.

Here it isn't only about what I got with the X1k through amigakit, it is also about your dealings with them and tlosm dissapointment. I'm not a business guy, I don't have stakes at those companies and amiga will live or it won't. I'm a user in amigaland who got to know others like him. That is closeness of a community. We might be small yet every single user here has something interesting to say and cares (for better or worse) about what others go through with their amiga or amigaone's machines. I've been on the net since its public inception and it is extremely RARE. It is much more than me not disregarding your feeling on the matter. That is the core of what we do here so the complaint can be against all of us.

@tlosm

We are different. we use amigaone machines in 2017 because of that. We don't need to emphasize it to the whole world via marketing campaigns. All the people here from all over the world mix their cultures with the amiga's and create what we have here.

As far as burying your head in all those benchmarks (and never listening), I already told you that on the pc I get 60fps 1080p movies based on something called frame rate conversion (24/30 fps to 60) which is a technology of the amd gfx cards. Without them that quad can be this benchmarking server tool and nothing more. You want to talk about cpu power in the real world? buying 2 X5Ks as linux killer machines proves you need to get a reality check. That reality can be about being different on aos4.1fe with your X5k.

@both

The X1k numbers are painfull to those who don't have it and enjoy it.

Last edited by Srtest on 24-Sep-2017 at 03:28 AM.

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Beans 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 5:23:06
#291 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 384
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Srtest

Actually, think you're the one that needs the reality check.
We started with the X1000 which had 18 PCI-E lanes.
Now we have the X5000 (and I LIKE the Qorlq cpus having discussed them years ago with Paul Gentle), but now you're down to about 10 PCI-E lanes (the P5020 only has 18 SerDes lanes and some of those are devoted to functions other than PCI-E).
And Tabor, I can't wrap my brain around that mistake, it only has 6 SerDes lanes divided between Network, SATA and PCI-E functions.
Since someone I have the deepest respect for (Paul again) had a hand in designing this and Trevor (who I'm also extremely fond of) approved it, I'm utterly confused.

We are NOT headed in the right direction here.
These processors are well suited for embedded applications, but they were not intended for desktop use.

Consider the comparison to the late 2005 G5, which has 32 PCI-E lanes devoted just to its expansion slots.
That's almost twice as many as the X1000 (which used a cpu designed for laptops), three times that of the X5000 (which uses processors intended for communications devices), and Tabor...we don't even need to go there (a fast PPC microcontroller maybe?).

And btw - what the heck has Linux really got to do with any of this, ALL operating systems need functional hardware to run on, when you limit functionality, you limit the OS. Its a simple enough relationship. Even a fanboi should get it.
I don't even LIKE Linux, my history started with an involvement in compact micro kernel based OS' that were used primarily in process control (and they wouldn't have worked on an I/O limited system any better than Linux or Amiga-related OS' do).

As far as OS4 goes, its not as important to me, as I prefer MorphOS.
I am not a native Amiga user, so that Workbench popping up with new windows all the time crap frankly pisses me off.
But in any case, I do think compact Amigiod operating systems are kind of cool compared to monolithic monstrosities like Linux or Windows.

And as far as meeting people like me, I'm not here as a social event (and frankly, when pissed off I can be a real dick, so I'd prefer to meet people more laid back than me ).

I can't believe that you guys think retaining the warts of an OS is somehow tied to look and feel. Yeah, archaic look and painful feel.

I would pick Scalos or Ambient over Workbench any day.
Workbench was cool, up until I saw my first Sun work station, then I realized more resolution and more than 256 colors was a good thing.
So why would you want your OS4 interface to look like an OS3.1 interface?
Sure, keep the same control functionality (Ambient does), but for God's sake tart it up a bit and modernize it.

Amiga has stagnated since legacy production stopped.
You guys act like a modern Amiga should have some kind of weird retro '80s vibe that I just don't get.

So yeah, I think you're right, I'm on the fringe of your community.
Because Amiga Inc. never should have happened, because Hyperion probably wasn't the best firm to carry on AmigaOS development (unless you LIKE decades of delays), and the hardware?
Well, if someone is still building computers with PPC cpus for desktop use in 2017, I'd expect them to be better than the IBM 970/G5 of 2005, not worse.

So, I'll probably buy a funky little X5000/40, but I'm not going to pretend its anything like what an Amiga would look like in the new millennia if the platform had survived, and I'm going to run MorphOS on it, because running what appears to be a straight forward port of OS3.1 seems...primitive.

BUT if you take my pissing in your corn flakes too seriously, you can always insulate yourself with more of those people 'like yourself' that are willing to accept mediocre hardware, and tell each other what a dick I am.
In the meanwhile, I be content in my belief that where we are is NOT where Jay Miner would have meant us to go.

Last edited by Beans on 24-Sep-2017 at 06:09 AM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 7:31:10
#292 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2301
From: Amiga land

@Beans

Quote:
PCI-E lanes (the P5020 only has 18 SerDes


in the beginning i was not understand why they use two pcie-pcie bridge inside the machine on the second pcie controller without using the 3th one... thanks to a mos guy who explain me all about i understand why... to much low lanes and they have to split with bridges for have all that slots on the mobo.

because of this i suggest to the open ppc laptop team to change the cpu in their project .. because the t2080 have less serdes compared the p50xx too... the best look like the t40xx


about tabor ... probably that toy will have less problems compared the x5000 because it have only one pcie slot ... but i will not buy it because i totally close with a-eon stuff.

@srtrest

Quote:
Without them that quad can be this benchmarking server tool and nothing more.


The quad like x5000 use on firefox 47 only the cpu for make the mp4 html5 play.
there is not va and not vdpau accelerations and no compositing ...
the quad have an r5 230 , the x5000 have 6570HD .
in this conditions i have exactly the same video quality and not frame drops at 720p youtube video on both machine , with same kernel , same distro, same fireforx version/
the difference come when if on x5000 i start open something more than fireforx during the video play ... x5000 suffer and much , g5 not ... and x5000 have 16GB DDr3 1600 ram , quad only 8GB 533 ddr2.

... this is because x5000 have really poor ram transfer rate performances and no one can change this.

About Linux on X5000, i know many guys who love Linux PPC because love PPC ... in the beginning i was suggesting they to buy an X5000 because ppc , because future amigaos and morphos compatible...
but after my experiences im suggesting to buy a second hand machine with 970MP or wait a Talos.

Last edited by tlosm on 24-Sep-2017 at 08:00 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 24-Sep-2017 at 07:59 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 24-Sep-2017 at 07:52 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 24-Sep-2017 at 07:51 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 24-Sep-2017 at 07:42 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 24-Sep-2017 at 07:41 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 24-Sep-2017 at 07:33 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 24-Sep-2017 at 07:32 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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K-L 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 8:48:17
#293 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1119
From: Oullins, France

@tlosm

I don't understand anything to what you've writtent above.

Could you make an effort because answering you is really complicated with such a bad english.

Just a note to evryone : RageMem was written by Crisot and wasn't at all tested on X5000 (we helped him test it on X1000 and Sam460 when he released it).

So please, do not take in consideration this test for benchmarks for the moment (until Crisot says otherwise).

_________________
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
Webmaster of Amiga-NG.org (French)

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bennymee 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 9:06:04
#294 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 343
From: Netherlands

@Srtest

A technician of Amigakit helpt me very fast and with accurate information, files and very helpfull. And this was for an Amiga chip of 9 euro's.

@all

We can have 48 lanes for a better Linux experience . But I would worry more about the TCP stack of OS4 which gives less then 4MB a sec. on a 1Gbit internet connection in Odyssey.

Last edited by bennymee on 24-Sep-2017 at 09:13 AM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 9:15:08
#295 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2301
From: Amiga land

@K-L

only you dont understand ... just because dont wanna understand.
i dont know eng lang but know something else..

learn something else

Last edited by tlosm on 24-Sep-2017 at 09:15 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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outrun1978 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 9:42:04
#296 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 318
From: Stockport, England

@beans

Quote:
Good customer support leads to recommendations that gain you new customers, bad customer experience actually lead to a larger loss than good experiences gain you. So neglecting customer support is a really bad method of operation for long term survival.



Well I have had nothing but good customer service off Amigakit so I think its good to offer some counterbalance here. From a UK perspective, I consider them to be reliable, they respond within 2 business days which is standard practice here in the UK and they delivered my X5000 board to me within 48 hours. They pack items very well and use a extremely reliable supplier in DPD for deliveries in the UK. Based on that reason alone I would use Amigakit and more importantly recommend them to others. As far as UK deliveries are concerned, I know my package is not going to get damaged or lost, nor I have to trudge down to some service centre in the middle of some industrial park 10 miles away from my house to collect a package all because the likes of Yodel, DHL (Drop it, Hide it or Lose it) and UK Mail couldn't be bothered to knock on my door when I have been in all day.

but of course you have a very enthusiastic and reliable supplier in AOTL who can attend to the enhanced needs of the US Market. People should be willing to support both companies, they are doing good things in order to keep the Amiga going...

Last edited by outrun1978 on 24-Sep-2017 at 09:43 AM.

_________________
Amigaone X5000 with Radeon HD7750
Amiga1200 with ACA 1231/42 68030 64mb with OS 3.9
Amiga CD32

Check out my blog on the Amigaone X5000 at www.amigax5000.blog

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tommysammy 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 10:26:30
#297 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2010
Posts: 622
From: Isselburg,Germany

I got an AmigaOneX5000 for AmigaOS4.1 too
The Amiga works very well and fast, faster then my X1000
I bought me it for AmigaOs and not Linux
Linux is a goddy, that it run on X1000,X5000.Sam460 etc.
If you want only run Linux, take an up to date PC for it.
My conclusion:
AmigaOneX5000 is the fastest PPC, that runs AmigaOS.
MorphOs is not Amiga, G5 are not Amiga

_________________
Amiga600/Vampire2/PrismaMegaMix
AmigaOne X5000

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 11:48:59
#298 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2301
From: Amiga land

@tommysammy


Quote:
Quote:
I got an AmigaOneX5000 for AmigaOS4.1 too

you change your mind ? i remeber you wasnt like to buy a new NG just a vampire

Quote:
AmigaOneX5000 is the fastest PPC, that runs AmigaOS.

for sure ... but isnt the fastest ppc

Last edited by tlosm on 24-Sep-2017 at 11:49 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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K-L 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 13:45:04
#299 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1119
From: Oullins, France

@tlosm

Well, you have no more credibility. No AmigaOS 4.1 PPC system has ever claimed to be the fastest PowerPC system (IBM servers are).

Have fun with Uboot under Qemu (it's a very nice OS to play with, many command lines to type for so much fun).

And stop being of bad faith.

_________________
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
Webmaster of Amiga-NG.org (French)

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outrun1978 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 24-Sep-2017 14:38:34
#300 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 318
From: Stockport, England

@K-L


Well the Amigaone X5000 poster which is on the back of a few issues of Amiga Future magazine does state that the it is the most powerful AmigaOS computer ever and you and I know this is true, so as far i can see A-eon have not infringed trading standards or hoodwinked anyone, if you have bought the X5000 with the primary purpose of running AmigaOS

A-Eon poster

_________________
Amigaone X5000 with Radeon HD7750
Amiga1200 with ACA 1231/42 68030 64mb with OS 3.9
Amiga CD32

Check out my blog on the Amigaone X5000 at www.amigax5000.blog

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