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      /  Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
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Spectre660 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 7-Sep-2017 22:48:46
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3569
From: Unknown

Crumple em up and throw em away .
How did the great beta testers miss the CMI sound card problems ?


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khayoz 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 7-Sep-2017 23:42:18
#62 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2004
Posts: 131
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@Raffaele
To answer your topic of this thread -
"Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits..."

Not for you by a long shot!

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 0:50:43
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@Spectre660


Quote:
ow did the great beta testers miss the CMI sound card problems


simple because is not a problem ... dont use a cmi audio board or use one not effected by "the bug"
it was reported by some other and was know before i had my first x5000/20

Last edited by tlosm on 08-Sep-2017 at 12:54 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 08-Sep-2017 at 12:51 AM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 0:53:22
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@Amiboy

dont worry soon will have a new home

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
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Acill 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 1:32:22
#65 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2006
Posts: 131
From: Port Hueneme, Ca.

@tlosm

I can go on facebook and even use messenger just fine in OS4 (MorphOS as well) using Odyssey. Its just the mobile version, but it is more than fine.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 2:28:32
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@Acill



Quote:
s just the mobile version, but it is more than fine.



i know i do the same.
but the point for me was use firefox that on x5000 is really hard to use because too slow

_________________
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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
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Hans 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 3:03:15
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4800
From: New Zealand

@Raffaele

Quote:

Raffaele wrote:
...

X5000 DDR3 RAM 1333MHz performances are inferior to an old Apple G5 DDR2 667 MHz, and X5000 stops at transfer rate of 2GB per second in read while decreasing even to 1.5 GBpS in write, a performance that could be appreciated on an Intel P4 of 2001, while G5 is capable of 7GBpS r/w that rise to 9GBpS when using ALTIVEC...

Using what benchmark? Stream? I remember having a discussion about this. From memory, the stream benchmark cannot saturate the P5020's memory bus. I'm not sure exactly why, but do know that it's impossible to get maximum memory transfer using a single core. Even when you perform a multi-core benchmark there are still all sorts of tricks that need to be pulled to truly saturate the bus.

Of course, there is a possibility that the memory controller doesn't get initialized optimally. Actually, I hope so, because then it'll be possible to improve performance.

Quote:
Also dramatic is situation of BUS DMA and it can't handle more of 3,5GB of RAM, limiting to 512MB the size of memory available on graphic cards.
But if dual 256MB graphic cards are mounted on two different PCI/PCIE slots, there were problems of instability.

That's what happens when you are limited to a 32-bit address space (which is 4 GiB in total). This problem has been solved.


Quote:
Performances of bus PCIE on X5000 are inferior to even an AGP bus and similar to a Cyberstorm A4000,

Okay, this one's utter BS. Compare the X5000's GfxBench2D memory benchmark to Cyberstorm's results. The X5000's write performance is 4x what the Cyberstorm achieves.

Sure, the read performance looks bad, but the results are without DMA. DMA is essential to get high throughput with PCIe, especially when it comes to reading from VRAM. Just have a look at the X1000 results. On the X1000, CPU-based read performance is even worse... until you use DMA; that's when the true capabilities are shown.

Quote:
pcie 16x with real performances of a 4x

Yes, the P5020 has a 4x PCIe v2.0 bus, which should be the equivalent of PCIe v1.1 8x, provided that the device at the other end is also has PCIe v2 (and it's been enabled, which firmware or the drivers need to explicitly do). This is similar to the Sam460ex having a 4x PCIe v1.1 bus.

Please be careful with these benchmarks; even the so-called "real-world" ones. It's very likely that Linux and related software is much more optimized on tlosm's quad-core G5 than the P5020, because it's been around a lot longer. This goes all the way from configuring the hardware to the compiled binaries that GCC generates.

Other A1-X5000 users have quite a different opinion of the machine than tlosm does.

@tlosm
I'm sorry that you're unhappy with the X5000 and angry with A-EON. I hope this will get sorted out.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 08-Sep-2017 at 03:08 AM.
Last edited by Hans on 08-Sep-2017 at 03:05 AM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 6:00:06
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@Hans

Hi Hans,
you know that i have a really good consideration about you.
but:
Quote:
I'm sorry that you're unhappy with the X5000 and angry with A-EON. I hope this will get sorted out.

first of all for me a-eon are not the developers that try to do the best of their possibilities some times for free.
for me aeon is one person who really disappointed me gaving me a big delusion.
i found by my self the solution cut the bridges with a-eon, sell my two x5000 and use os4 from emulators or try to find again a sam 440minitx.

Quote:
memory controller doesn't get initialized optimally.

Can be... yes, but after 2 years of payed beta testing (from the beta testers) the can be is not a good option.

Quote:
t's very likely that Linux and related software is much more optimized on tlosm's quad-core G5 than the P5020,

can be yes .... but if i build all needed(library and dependencies) for e5500 core you can exclude this.


Quote:
Other A1-X5000 users have quite a different opinion of the machine than tlosm does.


im really happy for they, but in my case, i have the same feeling than when after a travel i exit from my mercedes slk(g5) and start driving the ford ka(x5000) of my wife.


Quote:
Yes, the P5020 has a 4x PCIe v2.0 bus, which should be the equivalent of PCIe v1.1 8x


this is why it have worst performances compared the 8x pcie 1.1 slot of g5 quad ..


Quote:
the X1000

cpu integer are stronger than x1000 and G5 when no altivec instruction are used... this is for sure and is what im say from very beginning ...
but x5000 overall desktop experience is choppy,crappy terrible on linux compared an old 2005 g5 quad using the same distro not optimized ,kernel revision and gpu.
i call it bad performances ram and x5000 cant run more than 2gb/s on P5020 in smp.

Last edited by tlosm on 08-Sep-2017 at 06:10 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 08-Sep-2017 at 06:03 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 08-Sep-2017 at 06:02 AM.

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
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Amiboy 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 6:05:09
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Dec-2003
Posts: 1027
From: At home (probably)

@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote:
@Amiboy

dont worry soon will have a new home


Dang would have loved either system.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 6:11:21
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@Amiboy

i have a friend that is a truly amigan that will gave it a good home

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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Raffaele 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 6:17:34
#71 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1803
From: Naples, Italy

@tlosm

Please tlosm, your english is worst than a translation made by Google.
If you want help I will gladly read your italian statements before you intend to post and I'll try to translate it in a more readable english version.
At least I'll try the best I can with my poor english.

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Raffaele 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 6:19:25
#72 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1803
From: Naples, Italy

@khayoz

Quote:

khayoz wrote:
@Raffaele
To answer your topic of this thread -
"Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits..."

Not for you by a long shot!



I beg your pardon?

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K-L 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 6:31:04
#73 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1133
From: Oullins, France

@Raffaele

He aimed the wrong person (I guess he wanted to answer to tslom forgetting you were the one who asked the question).

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 6:35:02
#74 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@Raffaele


i know
Quote:
Please tlosm, your english is worst than a translation made by Google.

Last edited by tlosm on 08-Sep-2017 at 06:49 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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Cool_amigaN 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 7:41:23
#75 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2006
Posts: 1164
From: Athens/Greece

lol this thread strongly reminds me my own outburst many years ago (was it 2009/10?) in the very same forum. Back then I was complaining regarding 440mitx/OS4 performance and funnily enough I did got similar responses, to: just sell it, although I never did, but just switched platforms to an alternative Amiga NG solution and withdraw from aw.net. In retrospect, I still think that my findings were true regarding the overall experience of the system but what I didn't took into account was that it was a one way road for anyone that truly wanted to run OS4 and didn't consider any other alternative as an option. The same holds true I suppose for the X5k since if it's faster than the x1k then it's the top system to use OS4 regardless of its drawbacks. Note that not in any way I endorse tslom's comments given that I don't own such system and cannot make direct comparisons although I don't have also reasons to believe otherwise.

edit:

@tslom

Mate, I propose you to cool down. I think that you made your points clear. I also propose that in case you need your daily Amiga NG fix with the best price/buck ratio to check other available solutions in the market (heck, they are even better in a lot of daily tasks compared to the original/host OS they were designed for). If you need PPC linux keep your quad G5 since it will be one of the best machines ever for this particular use. If you can sell the machine without a significant loss then proceed and invest just a fraction of it to other options :)

Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 08-Sep-2017 at 07:52 AM.
Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 08-Sep-2017 at 07:50 AM.
Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 08-Sep-2017 at 07:50 AM.
Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 08-Sep-2017 at 07:47 AM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 8:28:00
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@Cool_amigaN

just to clarify in my worst english :p
i buy the best x5000 because on paper the performance was cool and i can made my old,noisy and heavy g5 quad goes in pension plus have to gave me the opportunity to have the best amigaos 4 experiences.
The first point was not true and this made the big problem of have another big machine in my home for do less and slow what i can do with my quad.
I had made the best for my time and my knowledge for make the x5000 gave the max of performances in linux but without success ... old g5 continue gave the best desktop experiences, usability and dont miss nothing for nowadays use.

example play 4k 360 videos without issue in firefox
image

example my fedora server ppc64 desktop
image
(i was using on g5 an x5000 fedora img)

i love os4 but the truth is ,it can not be used as work and home system because is full of compromise that i can accept but another user like is my wife not.
solution sell the x5000s loose a little bit and buy something that can be used in my home from everyone without compromise (like are minipc celeron)

Amiga for me now will be just classic ... NG will be in future if and only will come something that is from another company.
A-eon for the hardware for me is totally dead like is amigakit for the goodies.

if user need the best os4 experience im sure x5000 will make they happy ... if need something like i was need probably will face a big delusion.

by the way i really appreciate your post, really diplomatic and with true sense of the critics

Last edited by tlosm on 08-Sep-2017 at 10:23 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 08-Sep-2017 at 08:38 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 08-Sep-2017 at 08:33 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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wawa 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 8:42:40
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5726
From: Unknown

@Hans

Quote:
Okay, this one's utter BS. Compare the X5000's GfxBench2D memory benchmark to Cyberstorm's results. The X5000's write performance is 4x what the Cyberstorm achieves.


what? a radeon hd on x5k has up to four times better performance than p4 on a4k/csppc, or in some cases even worse? i mean a modern pcie graphic card is even being compared to a quarter of century old zorro3 one and doesnt just win hands down? whoa.. im just baffled.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 9:03:30
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@wawa

check this is x1000 vs x5000/20 courtesy of one friend of mine

sysmon reflect exactly what i face on linux and on gfxbench..
and cpu really good result

link

poor ram performances read/write 32/64 and poor read on pcie

Last edited by tlosm on 08-Sep-2017 at 09:06 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 08-Sep-2017 at 09:05 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 08-Sep-2017 at 09:04 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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davebraco 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 10:28:00
#79 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Jan-2005
Posts: 112
From: Belgium

@tlosm

"i love os4 but the truth is it can be used as work and home system because is full of compromise that i can accept but another user like is my wife not. "

Man, this is a hobby OS not targeted at non amiga users. Honestly I don't need facebook and play youtube video on my work system ( moreover there are workarround to play youtube video quite decently).

"solution sell the x5000s loose a little bit and buy something that can be used in my home from everyone without compromise (like are minipc celeron)"

PC's can be bought second hand for nearly nothing... and when I need one, I have friends that gave me their old ones.

So you can keep your x5000 and get a PC for the remaining stuff and the family.

"Amiga for me now will be just classic... "

Classics are great and will remains as it forever, but well did'nt play youtube hd video nor going on facebook too...

"NG will be in future if and only will come something that is from another company.
A-eon for the hardware for me is totally dead like is amigakit for the goodies."

Not all hardware coming from Commodore were perfect and successfull. The Amiga NG market was slowly dying, so even if I'm not totally agree with a-eon/amigakit choices, I'm glad they are keeping the AmigaNG PPC alive.

"if user need the best os4 experience im sure x5000 will make they happy ... if need something like i was need probably will face a big delusion."

Don't tell me you bought an X5000 to play youtube video while going on facebook. AmigaOS 4.1 really flies on this hardware, there are tons of nice games and softwares available... use it as a creative Amiga user, nor as a passive user

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 8-Sep-2017 10:40:27
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@davebraco

different points of view

NB: classic i already have from 1991 just need a vampire v4 for my amiga500+ i will not use it for goes on facebook. for do this thinks Quad G5 do everything and good.
if not i have my work macbook pro :P

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I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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