Following Bill Gates admitting he now uses an Android phone, MS have announced that their 'priority' is no longer in new features or hardware! Game over! Buy Nokia, destroy Nokia, run their business into the ground! It's sad as iOS is a joke in comparison on the basis of having a more basic and buggy phone OS that bloats in size after each release and runs on hobbled hardware with no SD slot for instance. Obviously both iOS and Android won due to their app stores and the number of developers onboard. While I'm no fan of MS, their mobile paradigm made a lot of sense and the tile layout was well designed and slick on these phones (not so much on the desktop ).

Did the Lumia etc deserve to die?

Can the Sailfish OS/Jolla phones etc offer a third way? A long shot but at least it offers compatibility with Android apps as well as doing things slightly differently using a new version of the Linux MeeGo OS strain of OS development used in the Nokia Smart Phone the N9.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/10/windows-phone-is-now-officially-dead-a-sad-tale-of-what-might-have-been/

Last edited by BigD on 12-Oct-2017 at 09:46 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Oct-2017 at 10:49 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Oct-2017 at 10:43 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Oct-2017 at 10:30 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Oct-2017 at 10:27 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Thread

This Sailfish news looks promising!

https://blog.jolla.com/sailfishx/

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

the Windows Phone was not that good i known friends who had windows phone only time it work was turn on or off when it did work it was bad

_________________
maybe i am dyslexia

An Apple a day keep bill gates away

@mcbone

Bluetooth set up/file transfer, upgrading the storage memory to allow WhatsApp to work smoothly again, transfering apps from internal memory to the SD card (again to allow WhatsApp to work ok again) and buying apps to set up and allow Google Docs functionality was all straight forward. The walled garden approach of iOS is in comparison annoying and the lack of SD card slot is unforgivable leading to my advice for my Dad basically being; "Get a Samsung next time as your iPhone doesn't have the space!"

Also Bluetooth security settings and setting up advanced features such as mobile internet tethering etc were pretty hard to do on the iPhone and in the case of Bluetooth file transfer to an Apple laptop FAR HARDER THAN FOR A WINDOWS PHONE (I actually never managed it)!!!!

Last edited by BigD on 10-Oct-2017 at 01:22 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Oct-2017 at 01:21 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Microsoft start-stopped-changed direction of Windows Phone waaaaay to often. Devices got unsupported fast, promising hardware was left with sometimes unfinished software and the closed Microsoft ecosystem could never gain any reasonable traction in this marketspace. I had a Lumia 800 and 900, loved the hardware, but came to hate the software as it matured into something worse.

Microsoft should take a page out of Linux' book. Take a direction and keep chipping away. Eventually, you'll even manage to start denting entrenched marketplayers.

@BigD

No offense but The real question is “why on earth did it take so long?”

Windows CE/Mobile/Mobile-Again/Phone Has always been a bad joke. I used to code on a Dell Axim 51, then on an HTC Titan 2, then I jumped off the carousel. I briefly popped up on WinMo 6.5, then 7.1 then I learned the “zune” lesson: You cannot be a me-too company without bringing anything new to the table for too long.

You can be biased against iOS (without merits on a technology point of view, to be clear) or Android, but in this specific case they are both on a much higher plane.

To be clear (again) the “walled garden” means that you cannot sell on the Apple store unless you pay the Apple tax. Seems fair enough to me.
About other common iOS misconceptions: Nothing prevents you to launch Xcode, compile and install your apps on your phone. If you love open source, you are already served.
Nothing prevents you to codesign a pirated app to pretend you legitimately purchased it and then install it, if this is your thing.

Does Apple implement the full Bluetooth operation profiles? No. Does Android do that? Neither. Windows XYZ? Ditto. It’s all about the parts that make sense in the context of the os. Midi over Bluetooth makes sense to Apple because of the multimedia orientation. Does not make sense to Android or even worse, windows File transfer makes sense on windows, but not on an iOS without a central “downloads” folder.

So, did windows XYZ deserve to die? Not sure.
did it deserve to be created in first place? Here I say ... no

@Tellurium

Quote:

File transfer makes sense on windows, but not on an iOS without a central “downloads” folder.

What the hell sort of rubbish Apple controlling mantra is that? If I want to share a picture with someone who I'm having coffee with I'm not going to WhatsApp it am I? It makes far more sense to Bluetooth it over IMHO! iOS pretends that it supports that functionality, but actually setting it up is a real pain and just shows how restrictive iOS actually is.

What the hell do you mean "Central Downloads Folder"? Is that some sort of automated syncing download folder between iPhones and other devices? I should be able to save a file to wherever I want to not where Apple TELLS me it should go!!! Worse than that is where iTunes, iPhoto or i-whatever-rubbish-Apple-comes-up-with-next on the Mac actively hides away the actual files themselves prefering to create 'play lists' and 'photo albums' when user defined default folders or 'drawers' worked just fine before they began babysitting us all

Last edited by BigD on 10-Oct-2017 at 01:34 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Oct-2017 at 01:33 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

I loved my Nokia Lumia phones, i loved Windows Phone too right down to its look and simplicity, its such a shame there was a complete black hole in available apps for the platform. To put it into perspective, here they are trying to push Windows Phone on to the business community as a solution to having Microsoft Office on the move, yet business people frequently travel and where exactly were the apps for checking in for a flight, at a hotel or booking rail travel. It was completely ignored by most airlines, hotel chains and rail operating companies, all of whom went for Apple and Android.

In my steadfast refusal to use Apple products, I have had to convert over to Android, I can't say i enjoy it, its better than it used to be, and at least now I have a Nokia Android phone in the Nokia 6 which isn't bad for the price.

_________________
Amigaone X5000/20 4GB Radeon RX 550 Polaris 12 AmigaOS4.1 Final Edition Update 1
Amiga 1200 Workbench 3.1.4
Amiga CD32

@BigD

I guess, if you want to share on whatsapp, you send it on whatsapp. This sort of mantra. Yes, that "airdrop" thing that apple has is weird, but that's as weird as the bluetooth sharing thing (that, does not work against my HP EliteBook 8560W running Win7 ... a Microsoft mantra I guess)

Now, if you ever used a Mac, Windows, Gnome or KDE machine, you surely have seen a "Downloads" folder side by side with your documents. I think Android has a "Downloads" folder as well. guess what's supposed to contain? downloaded files.

"Apple TELLS" is just as bad as "xyz TELLS". they all build apps or OSes and you use them according to their capabilities. Except linux and bsd. you can thankfully customize them to your needs ... providing you can code.

With all respect, roll the eyes as much as you wish, but once you open them, you'll notice that every single company you can name is no different from the others. All they do is build products. All they want is your money. Bash Apple, sanctify Microsoft or Google or whatever, that's entirely up to you.

The only choice we, users, have is to pick the best product. And since we are here, my last experience with Win Phone 7.1 had 15% Acid 3 test compliance. My Android goes to 91% and my iPhone goes to 98%. It's not the definitive criteria of quality, but it's a basis to discuss about *merit*. HTML Acid3 tests don't you agree ?

@Tellurium

Quote:

Yes, that "airdrop" thing that apple has is weird, but that's as weird as the bluetooth sharing thing

The Bluetooth sharing thing involves switching on Bluetooth on both devices. Entering a authentication code from one device to the other and then the file is sent! It's not a black art but Apple tries to reinvent the wheel FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN CONTROL!!

Quote:

bluetooth sharing thing (that, does not work against my HP EliteBook 8560W running Win7 ... a Microsoft mantra I guess

The point was I could get the Windows phone sending files to an APPLE laptop easier than an iPhone could using Bluetooth! That's crazy!!!!! Yes I researched AirDrop but I couldn't get it to work. Bluetooth functionality is supported on the MacBook and technically on the iPhone so file transfer SHOULD work you'd think. I guess the iPhone only wants to use Bluetooth for music streaming and refuses to do something so inane as sending a file!!!!! For that you need AirDrop!!! INSANITY APPLE!!!!

Apple products are going DOWN in quality not UP. They are removing features and increasing the price. No other company on the planet charges more for less in the way that Apple does! I couldn't care less how much aluminium they've shaved off the latest laptop if they haven't got the optical drives and ports that I need they are pointless eye candy which would get ruined with a mess of dongles if I ever bought one. Sadly, I can't really stand Window 10 so I'm stuck with Apple but I think this latest one will be my last Apple machine unless they start listening to the customers. The Mac Pro and iMac Pro are a step in the right direction but the Touch Bar on the MacBook Pro is not!

It's sad because I was beginning to think the Windows Phone OS made a lot of sense and seemed to be good in operation (just guaging what I've seen from helping out my wife). Oh well back to my dumb Nokia

Last edited by BigD on 10-Oct-2017 at 09:16 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Oct-2017 at 09:15 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Oct-2017 at 09:11 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

You guys know you can run Linux on some of those phones right ? There's some version of Ubuntu that's more user friendly too. Anyway, time to make AROS smart phone friendly anyone ? :)

_________________

José

@BigD

I didn't vote because... I didn't know that MS had a phone.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

Problem of Windows Phone was lack of apps and interest of developers, not the OS itself.

Last edited by ExiE on 11-Oct-2017 at 08:02 AM.

@Tellurium
It sounds like you never tried Windows Phone 8 or Windows 10 Mobile. The systems you mentioned were indeed terrible, but they were based on the old Windows CE core.


The idea was a unified platform, but the managed to fragment the product line and make a lot of people disappointed. Those who bought a WP7 device were stuck on this inferior OS while MS developed WP8. Then W10 Mobile came out and again many handsets were never updated.
Windows 10 Mobile wasn't a bad OS, but already when it came out, it didn't feel like MS were putting as much effort into it. It was a huge step forward at the backend, sharing almost all the API's and using the same NT kernel as Windows 10. However in terms of the user experience and features, it was in some ways a step back, and the actual W10 Mobile phones that came out weren't very good.

This was their vision for Windows 10. How was anyone going to take this seriously when even Microsoft were prioritizing iOS and Android apps over UWP apps?

What's the point of UWP apps now, when all that's left are desktop and laptop computers (with or without touch)? Win32 apps reach not only Windows 10 users, but also those who are sticking with Windows 7 (tons of large companies for example).

The biggest question is, where does this leave Microsoft now as a consumer company? They recently killed off Groove (their iTunes/Spotify wannabe). Now Windows Mobile. What about the Hololens and Xbox? The Surface line? Are they going to turn into IBM and just provide boring enterprise products and cloud services for suits? Because they are quickly losing mind-share and presence among consumers. For many young people, Windows isn't even relevant any more. They rely on mobile devices like phones and tablets for their daily computing needs.

Obviously nothing will change in the next couple of years, but it will be interesting to see what will happen to Microsoft in the next 10 years. Maybe then there will be retro forums where people can discuss and feel nostalgic about Microsoft and Windows, and discuss the best Windows emulators for ChromeOS or spend thousands on some niche "real" Windows hardware

Last edited by AdvancedFollower on 11-Oct-2017 at 09:49 AM.
Last edited by AdvancedFollower on 11-Oct-2017 at 09:48 AM.
Last edited by AdvancedFollower on 11-Oct-2017 at 09:48 AM.
Last edited by AdvancedFollower on 11-Oct-2017 at 09:46 AM.

I think it is about to finally happen in the next 10 years, Microsoft will fall, why I think this is I started seeing Android programs and cloud based solutions in offices the last great stand of Microsoft is in its Windows Desktop but they have done a lot to hurt that market with Windows 8 disaster and then the force to windows 10 that bricked so many devices. I think companies and app developers need to advertise and support Bluetooth keyboard and mouse and it will be game over.

I think they will always be around but there rule on the computer market is over, and it has finally forced them to up there game and improve there programs and be more open about having there programs on any device.

Windows mobile never used it, so cant judge but Android is pretty good, and is pretty easy to hack if you dont like certain features, plus I think google is pushing the market in the right direction and it come on a long way. IOS seems to be going backwards, never really like apple closed market and its over priced toys, there software standard also seem to be dropping and lack of innovation is surprising in this area.

I think there room for more competition but will be hard for any company to catch up with the app list of ios or android and I think having an inbuilt emulation for either platform is a necessary.

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

@AdvancedFollower

Quote:

AdvancedFollower wrote: The biggest question is, where does this leave Microsoft now as a consumer company?

They continue doing what they have been doing for a while. Working on their services.

Windows is a service. There will be no more "versions", updates are continuous. Same with Office, and OneDrive. Services.

Hardware platform is becoming less relevant for Microsoft. They will target any suitable x86/x64/ARM device with exactly the same services and content, including low cost/low performance ones, like ARM based laptops, tablets and whatever.

Windows running Photoshop x86 on ARM:
https://youtu.be/A_GlGglbu1U

(Note that the above youtube clip shows Windows running on a kind of oldish ARM CPU, not the good stuff we see coming now. And still it's perfectly OK!)

@BigD
Android is better than Windows Phone, but the fault of Microsoft was though that phone market is like computers, where they were the masters with their "prácticas".

@survey

I don't know if "deserve" is the right word. It was certainly quite obvious right around the time they were moving to Windows Phone 8 that they were likely going to be the 3rd smartphone platform or the platform that ended up being shut down, a la Zune media player

They had plenty of money but they didn't pay for developers to port their apps to Windows Phone. I suppose they thought people would develop for it because they think their awesome?

I used a HTC Windows Phone running version 8 of the OS. It was a very nice device, with a 4.5" screen. The Windows Phone 8 was definitely the best UI on any smartphone at the time. I never thought I'd utter such words. But compared to BB10 and iOS, and Android, where all you have is a grid of icons, Windows Phone 8 was much more useful. Three different sizes of tiles and some can be Live Tiles, so there's information available at a glance.

I used it for a couple of weeks in between iPhone releases. All that it was missing is the apps. It didn't have anywhere near the app support that iOS and Android had. And then some developers would create their own unofficial app for this or that, but most were hastily put together partial functionality stop gaps you really didn't want to use.

The race is over. The smartphone era has reached saturation. There is no room for a 3rd major player. We're stuck with iOS and Android, and I can't tell which is the lesser of two who gives a crap.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@AdvancedFollower

that's completely true. I stopped at 7.1 and I never looked back. As a developer it is already difficult to cope with two platforms, and as much as I love Android (my language of choice is still plain, old, simple, lovely C but day to day I have to Java), fragmentation and obsolescence is already too much of a big issue to waste time with exotic alternatives that had "the end" stamped on their very first page.
I got burned three times, I learned the lesson. Nothing against MS or any other company out there. As I said, they are all the same to my eyes. The only one I cared about is long dead (Commodore). Nonetheless, I confess that while I have a decent set of recent Android devices, I only have an iPhone 6 plus and I could be tempted by an eventual X Plus (which does not exist).

Looking at the Dev Docs, there's a ton of new APIs that I'd like to try.
I still would recommend an Android over an iPhone, because of the price, but I honestly never feel the same excitement on new tech as when I read the constant wagonload of new frameworks that distinguish an iOS release from another.

@BigD

I had a work-issued Lumia a few years ago, before we went BYOD.

It was pretty horrible. Firstly, I couldn't get any updates - it wouldn't update OTA and I needed Zune installed on my work PC to get updates. Even then, I couldn't get updates because Zune would crash or just not work.

Secondly, it would randomly text my contacts while charging. I kid thee not - I had to lock it first, otherwise it went beserk and sent random garbage texts.

Our IT Dept warned me that the battery would run flat very quickly - the stupid rotating tiles UI burned power for no real reason.

It did have a nice feature in that it displayed the room my meeting was in on the lock screen - which was very handy.

I switched to BlackBerry 10, which was miles better, but sadly BlackBerry has all but killed it off (they clearly don't support it any more, but have publicly said so.)

So now I use an Android - which is just a phone. I don't hate it as much as I hated Windows Phone and I don't love it as much as I loved BB10.

_________________
---------------
AmigaOne X5000 P5020 2Ghz, OS 4.1
AmigaOne XE G4 800mhz, OS 4.1
A1200T 40Mhz 68040, OS 3.9