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      /  Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
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AmigaBlitter 
Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 13-Oct-2017 10:02:14
#1 ]
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Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3512
From: Unknown


http://www.fudzilla.com/news/44706-commodore-s-end-was-a-train-wreck-of-stupidity

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BigD 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 13-Oct-2017 10:22:21
#2 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@AmigaBlitter

It's supposed to be an "amusing read", depressing more like I think the story about how C= UK became the most profitable subsidary of CBM would make a more interesting and uplifting book IMHO. The tale of all the U.S. corporate rubbish is not necessary for the focus of an UK perspective book. It would obviously be a PART of the narrative but the day to day corporate rubbish didn't dent the popularity of the Amiga here in the UK and had C= UK bought it post the CBM bankruptcy they may have made a success of the whole company!

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 13-Oct-2017 21:03:11
#3 ]
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Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3512
From: Unknown

@BigD

and another one...


https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/10/12/2155230/here-to-zero-the-real-inside-story-of-how-commodore-failed

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IridiumFX 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 13-Oct-2017 21:22:26
#4 ]
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Joined: 7-Apr-2017
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From: London, UK

Just watching the video on youtube. David Pleasance is an amazing narrator. I hope Trevor understands the resurgence and reunification passes through merging Amiga and Commodore names again

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BigD 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 13-Oct-2017 21:42:38
#5 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@IridiumFX

Quote:
I hope Trevor understands the resurgence and reunification passes through merging Amiga and Commodore names again


The Commodore brand name is a curse. The Hi-Toro team is where the true magic happened and the Commodore management destroyed it and let the talent walk! You may as well call it the Dave Haynie Amiga if you want to honour the 'Commodore' years because he was the last engineer standing and only the Commodore engineers are worth remembering. Everything else bar some of Commodore UK's business wins and Kit Spencers C64 marketing skills (which were needed to launch the Amiga but he 'retired' around about 1985 to the Bahamas ) should be forgotten. Commodore Gaming made good gaming cases, but Commodore Business Machines screwed up the Amiga and their name WILL NEVER BE WORTHY TO SIT ALONGSIDE THE AMIGA BRAND AGAIN!

Last edited by BigD on 13-Oct-2017 at 09:48 PM.

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IridiumFX 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 13-Oct-2017 22:21:42
#6 ]
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Joined: 7-Apr-2017
Posts: 80
From: London, UK

@BigD

Don’t get me wrong: everyone is entitled to his own opinion. I will not question yours, as I expect you to accept mine.

I stand by the idea that I loved my first Commodore 64. I loved my Commodore 128D. I loved my Commodore 128 D CR. I loved my Commodore Amiga 600, I loved my Commodore Amiga 1200, I loved and still love my 4 Commodore Amiga 4000. In 6 years of Commodore Amiga we had amazing products and technologies of all kind despite the worst possible management. I choose to remember and celebrate the good parts.

You may hate the Commodore name. Fair. HI toro was but a startup and Atari was clear: the chipset for the RF out, no place for the OS or anything else Amiga-ish.

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BigD 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 13-Oct-2017 22:44:40
#7 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
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From: UK

@IridiumFX

Quote:
You may hate the Commodore name. Fair. HI toro was but a startup and Atari was clear: the chipset for the RF out, no place for the OS or anything else Amiga-ish.


Yeah, they stopped Atari raiding the custom chips! Ironically though if C= hadn't stepped in the chips may have helped Atari to survive especially without the C= Amiga competition and may have led to RJ and Dave Needle joining Atari earlier creating a better Lynx and giving Atari more funds to perfect the Jaguar hence beating the PlayStation = quite good timeline (other than the Amiga not ever existing )! Oh and they also gave us Zorro slots and the AGA chipset as kind of a nice send off present! Those are the good bits.

On the bad side they destroyed the Hi-Toro team, they failed to use the Ranger Chipset that Jay Miner gave them to progress the Amiga graphics in line with Moore's law etc, they failed to clinch the lucrative A3000UX deal with Sun Microsystems, they never even lauched in Japan because some C= executive got impatient, they cancelled the A3000+ with DSP that could have opened up new markets and blasted the Apple Mac out of the water for the 2nd time, they didn't support chunky pixels and they didn't upgrade the Paula soundchip or the CIA chips meaning we were stuck with 880kb floppy drives and 4 channel sound while the rest of the world was using 1.44Mb disks and Soundblasters!! Yay for Commodore the greatest 'computer' company in the world that thought it was just selling widgets The company that closed its advanced LCD division (one of its kind in the USA) because a competitor told them LCDs had no future!!!!! The company that bought MOS semiconductor company by withholding payments for massive invoices until they were desperate enough to sell out for a ridiculously low price to avert bankruptcy!!!! They then ran the MOS fabrication plant into the ground leading to severe environmental contamination which would have led to a law court if they had survived!

Jack Tramiel (the hero and founder of this great company) treated Chuck Peddle; one the greatest influences on computer design ever like an absolute dog, making sure his career went nowhere and scuppered any chance of a C= alternative to the IBM PC which Chuck Peddle could have competed against given the chance as he was a visionary!

Good riddence to C=! Jack Tramiel was a bully who got lucky with the C64, chose a dubious business partner in Irvine Gould, who in turn thought Medhi Ali was a better leader than Thomas Rattigan!!!!!! Jack Tramiel gave his junior engineers untold freedom to design great products because he probably didn't want to spend money on many senior engineers and probably didn't know how to manage them other than shout a lot or leave them alone! What an inspiring leader!!

THE WHOLE COMPANY WAS ROTTEN!!! THE AMIGA SOLD ITSELF TO THE UK AND GERMANY IN PARTICULAR WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM C= USA! THE AMIGA WAS A SMALL SUCCESS IN THE NICHE VIDEO PRODUCTION MARKET IN THE USA BECAUSE OF NEWTEK NOT COMMODORE FRIGGIN' NEWTEK!!!! ATARI WROTE THEIR OWN SOFTWARE BUT WHAT DID C= WRITE? DISK SALV?

Last edited by BigD on 13-Oct-2017 at 11:08 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 13-Oct-2017 at 11:04 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 13-Oct-2017 at 10:58 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 13-Oct-2017 at 10:52 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 13-Oct-2017 at 10:49 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 13-Oct-2017 23:23:41
#8 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@IridiumFX

You know what, Steve Jobs was a highly unpleasant individual but he did give Tim Cook some great advice when he said, "We can all only do a few things really well". Focus! That's what it comes down to.

Question: What was Jack Tramiel's focus?
Answer: "Computers for the masses not the classes"
= STACK 'EM HIGH, SELL 'EM CHEAP!

Question: What was Irvine Gould's focus?
Answer: Making C= a $1 billion company
= GREED

So they had a cheap skate leader in league with a greedy son of gun trying to develop a computer platform that required a long term strategy, R&D and a unifying leadership to push the platform to not just keep pace with but stay ahead of the competition through innovation and calculated risks! They weren't really the men to do it were they? Could they hire and retain the talent to help them? No, they got jealous of Chuck Peddle in Jack's case and Thomas Rattigan in Irvine Gould's case

To sell 25 million+ C64s = Jack and Irvine's dream come true! However, to manage a sustainable and profitable computer platform for the long term prosperity of the company was just not something they were qualified to do

Last edited by BigD on 13-Oct-2017 at 11:26 PM.

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IridiumFX 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 14-Oct-2017 3:57:04
#9 ]
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Joined: 7-Apr-2017
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From: London, UK

I have been in the Commodore universe since 1984. I have seen most of the disasters happening. I have seen the glory too. No bad mouthing is going to change each other’s opinion. All this hate speech is pointless. I think we agree to disagree on our respective points of view.

With your permission, I’ll go back to clicking icons on the Commodore/MetaComCo created Amiga OS

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BigD 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 14-Oct-2017 9:13:23
#10 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@IridiumFX

It's not bad mouthing, it's the truth. Were it not for the likes of David Pleasance we wouldn't have had a successful Amiga in the UK and like America most of us would have forgotten about it. The parent company was bad news and we don't need the C= brand any more. C= can be used to sell generic computer cases, memory sticks and mouse mats in tribute to the fact it was a 'widget' company

At least Jack Tramiel knew to position the Atari ST as a Apple Mac killer with the high resolution monochrome mode. What was Commodore's marketinhg strategy? Promote a colour computer with sepia adverts and not show the multimedia power in the video adverts and just cryptically say it'll help the consumer get ahead! How?

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BigD 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 14-Oct-2017 9:15:42
#11 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@IridiumFX

Quote:
I have been in the Commodore universe since 1984.


The Amiga wasn't a thoroughbred C= machine. They bought the tech because they'd run out of good ideas. The Amiga bought them about 10 years but they had no corporate desire for innovation post C64.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 14-Oct-2017 11:26:28
#12 ]
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Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3512
From: Unknown

@IridiumFX

Quote:
the resurgence and reunification passes through merging Amiga and Commodore names


+1

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BigD 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 14-Oct-2017 13:20:01
#13 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@AmigaBlitter

The ONLY Amiga products left with any direct link to the Commodore Amiga (IP wise) are Amiga OS4 and Amiga Forever. Hyperion heve both the trademarks AmigaOS and AmigaONE all wrapped up while Cloanto have all the ROMs and Workbench IP upto 3.1. Why would the Commodore brand add anything to either company? It is next to worthless now. It would be worth more to Jeri Ellsworth or the C64 brigade

Last edited by BigD on 14-Oct-2017 at 01:27 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 14-Oct-2017 at 01:27 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 14-Oct-2017 at 01:27 PM.

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number6 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 14-Oct-2017 16:16:35
#14 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@BigD

Quote:
Hyperion heve both the trademarks AmigaOS and AmigaONE all wrapped up


Yes, if by "wrapped up" you mean "refused" and/or under opposition.

Source U.S.

Source Europe (euipo)

#6

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BigD 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 14-Oct-2017 17:59:17
#15 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@number6

So adding the C= trademark to the Amiga companies battles would help how and add what value to the victor?

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number6 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 14-Oct-2017 18:09:51
#16 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@BigD

I wasn't suggesting one add anything. I'm just saying that although we know that no one is preventing sale of products called AmigaOS or AmigaOne currently, that we simply do not know how all of this will shake out.

And currently on the Commodore side there is:
C(chickenlips) Commodore
Commodore (the formerly unused tm mentioned by freeamiga)
C64
THEC64
Commodore CBM
etc.

How in the world would anyone add yet other contested and/or confusing mark to the currently contested Amiga marks and expect to come out for the better?
I'm actually agreeing with you on your point. heh.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 14-Oct-2017 at 06:10 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 14-Oct-2017 21:00:17
#17 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@number6

Glad you agree with me

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Beans 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 14-Oct-2017 21:14:21
#18 ]
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Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@BigD

Quote:
So adding the C= trademark to the Amiga companies battles would help how and add what value to the victor?



Absolutely nothing what so ever for me.
Commodore is dead, while Amiga struggles on.

And my history with Commodore ends at the Super Pet.
Frankly I never had any real use for the 6502, preferring Motorola processors.

Last edited by Beans on 14-Oct-2017 at 09:15 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 15-Oct-2017 14:22:11
#19 ]
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Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@BigD

In reality the Amiga wasn't a real Commodore. It wasn't 8-bit. It didn't run on a little endian CPU. It wasn't based on an MS-OS. It didn't have text modes, chunky graphics or multi colour modes like actual Commodore's had. Or a synth sound chip. To use a Commodore printer with my A500, like my CBM MPS1250/EpsonX, I had to switch it into IBM mode

Quote:
The ONLY Amiga products left with any direct link to the Commodore Amiga (IP wise) are Amiga OS4 and Amiga Forever. Hyperion heve both the trademarks AmigaOS and AmigaONE all wrapped up while Cloanto have all the ROMs and Workbench IP upto 3.1.


That is under dispute, by former and current Amiga people, who tend to hang out on Facebook. They don't like the "AmigaOne" name because it has "Amiga" inside it and as far as they are concerned the AmigaOne and AmigaOS4 for that matter has nothing to do with the Amiga, doesn't have an Amiga chipset, is not a Commodore and doesn't run old Amiga games, directly. Now I can see where they are coming from but I think this argument is too far. Obviously, the AmigaOne is designed (to an extent), or produced rather, to run AmigaOS4, which is descended from AmigaOS3 source code. And with the shackles thrown off so it can use off the shelf hardware. I don't know how many Mediator owners dispute AmigaOne hardware being Amiga related at all as they use their Amiga for a dongle that glues PC cards together. But it seems to me that the ones who dispute it are all a bunch of PC guys anyway. And it just doesn't seem right for Amiga people to go up against each other and to dispute an "Amiga" development when they have given up on the Amiga in favour of the PC.

Last edited by Hypex on 15-Oct-2017 at 02:27 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Commodore's end was a train wreck of stupidity on Fudzilla
Posted on 15-Oct-2017 16:54:58
#20 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Hypex

Quote:
And it just doesn't seem right for Amiga people to go up against each other and to dispute an "Amiga" development when they have given up on the Amiga in favour of the PC.


True 'dat, he says typing on his first quad core computer which happens to be an Apple Mac (also a PC) not a P5040 AmigaOne

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