@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Amigo1 Quote: Look back a few years, before the change to the new style, you can find a plethora of youtube videos with people bashing apple for the old and heavy looking icons and GUI design. They wanted to ape the design of the app buttons and aesthetics in iOS on OS X. There is nothing more to it than that. It doesn't mean that it suits a computer or looks particularly professional. A kids toy aesthetic springs to mind

I might agree with that, but hey, I know people who like their rooms painted in glaring orange and they state it brightens up their day making them more productive. I would get to a state where my mind feels like orange juice after 15minutes.. Also the blue painted room for professional Surgeons, looks not professional for a clerk environment. curious isn't it?!
Quote:

The REAL problem is Apple beginning to lock down OSX to the same degree as iOS. It is eliminating ALL user customisation options and demanding that EVERYTHING should look and work in the way OUR OVERLORDS envisioned. This is not acceptable and my next laptop is very unlikely to be an Apple machine for this reason

I like the looks of AmigaOS 1.3 and luckily on AmigaOS 4.1FEu1 I still can use that theme (to a certain extent, since the theming system needs a rework since FEu1 and some themes do not work anymore). I wonder what the OS team would do if Hyperion had billions of dollars like Apple has and the corresponding user base, will they finally enhance the GUI Prefs program which is kind of dormant since 10 years?
However, if the next version of AmigaOS will not start PageStream and Wordworth anymore, but more importantly DeluxePaint V, I will have to migrate to another computer system.
There is Windows with the amazing WinUAE, so there is choice after all..

Quote:

I get it, I'm not their target market and I never was. I ACTUALLY 'Think Different' and customise Apple hardware to suit MY needs! I have installed my own Blu-Ray internal drive which I use frequently for DVD ISO backups on Blu-Ray, playing Blu-Ray films and burning home video DVDs. I have now 'hacked' the aesthetics of the OS to resemble Mavericks and prefer the FireFox browser to Safari. I use GutenPrint to use an old HP printer (that also works with my Amiga as it has USB and Centronics ports). I run Elite Dangerous on my Windows 7 Bootcamp partition because Apple REFUSES to update OpenGL and it's not cost effective for MOST game companies to use the Metal API (hence no option to upgrade to ED: Horizons should I want to due to as there's no shader support in Mac supported OpenGL).

I never went past playing and still enjoy "Frontier: Elite II". And that doesn't even play right on AmigaOS4.1 without e-uae. Why hasn't David Braben programmed that game using the OS's APIs?!
Quote:

Once Apple forcefully stop the latest version of their OS from running 32-bit apps it's a NO-GO as I consider the iMovie and iDVD combination Apple's 'killer apps' which they will have managed to kill when iDVD is finally totally unusable (it's a 32-bit app that Apple has no intention of updating).

Yes, you will probably have to migrate to Windows then. I remember I saw Mavericks Themes for window somewhere.. You could slap one of those on top of the Win10(whatever creators version) UI.
Alternatively you might use a hackintosh. Or for that matter keep your older system for that purpose. Heck you might even dual boot, it is still possible with the latest generation Macs. That is until they nuke that feature too..

Quote:

THIS sums it up really regarding locking down the system and THIS shows their timeline for phasing out 32-bit apps

thanks for the links
Somehow I think it's called progress. We both know many old apps do not work on Amiga too, be it because the programmers banged the hardware or for a deliberate change in the APIs. The outcome is the same.
As it is now, I would not mind AmigaOS going 64bit in order to make use of the full potential of our new hardware. If this implies they have to ditch all 32bit apps just because the developers team is small, I'm sure they would at least implement a good emulator for all the old apps. But that is just because they are aware of the fact that there are not thousands of app developers converting/rewriting the old apps to use the new system.

Quote:

Yes it does, as your example demonstrates that progress either equals bloat (Windows) or a reduction in features every decade or so with a smoke screen of UI reinvention and/or shiny new (read: thinner and/or lighter) hardware (MacOS).

You didn't read what I wrote. Nevermind.

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo

I understand that you think bloat is inevitable and the Amiga is just behind the curve on this. However, is the Apple way better whereby old app support is cut early so they don't have to continue supporting old systems, chipsets, etc even though they technically could?

I only added that yes Apple replace icon sets with high res versions like you said and then I just offered my opinion that that is not always progress either! Flat UI design in particular has become the scourge of OS design and websites!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_design

Quote:

Flat design has been criticized for making user interfaces unintiuitive and less usable. By making all design elements (menus, buttons, links, etc.) flat, distinguishing what function an element serves may become more difficult, for example, determining whether an element is a button or an indicator.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

I have to kinda of agrees that updates and patch’s are getting to big, maybe not the first install of say game or windows, I can kinda understand that triple aaa game with there textures that now have to hold up to hd or even 4K have to be big files (if you play the original quake in 4K mode the texture are so amazingly basic but they could get away with it as most monitors and machine wouldnt be playing on anything higher than 1024x800 back in the day If you where lucky)). But it’s the patchs pertically the day 1 patch that seem to be getting bigger and bigger and more annoying, game dev seem to really push on release date and don’t seem to have enough beta testing time anymore and so you get a big ass day 1 patch that fix’s loads of issues they missed, it annoying when you just go the game and have to wait for a update to play it, loading time are getting worst than the spect day because of this.

Windows 10 should also be small patch each week, With quick install, like people have said I gone into work once and we all had to have half hour break first thing just to wait for windows to update. Plus these bigger update seem to get every year seem to break machine and introduce new problem more then fix them and a series of number of small update/patch seem to always follow some weeks later. Why!

I partly think the days of big releases should disappear and just add new features and patch as them become available.

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

Quote:

However, is the Apple way better whereby old app support is cut early so they don't have to continue supporting old systems, chipsets, etc even though they technically could?

I don't know which one is better. Apple's way of going forward is certainly easier and allows them to innovate quicker than having to deal with old and outdated OS, libraries, apps,..

Of course, that let some users behind, but at the same time it's a reason for people to move on.

I don't think Amiga's way of being so conservative (that seems to be shared with MorphOS/AROS/OS4,..) is the best thing either. I'm convinced you can have an Amiga-like modern (= new kernel that supports modern features from the ground up: resource tracking, SMP, 64bit, easily portable with any endian,..) OS without being another Linux or OSX clone.

Amiga was created when memory was very expensive, high-color/high resolution screens didn't exist (or where very new and very expensive). Times have changed: you have plenty of memory, very fast storage (SSD is faster than the memory of 68k Amigas!). The original OS had to be created with these limitations.

The OS should change too: there's no reason to stick with outdated technologies, and also no reason why not using the extra space/memory that is available and cheap today. Other OS just do that.

Last edited by Leo on 25-Oct-2017 at 12:05 PM.

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

Well that sums it up had issue with 1607 machines not updating via WSUS. 1511 and 1703 where fine so I thought ok I update one of the troubled 1607 machine to 1703 2.5Hrs later it has finally updated..... Why Microsoft why why why

_________________
A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
Elbox empty Power Tower
RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC
Wii with Amiga emulation
Vampire v4 SA

@Leo

>. I'm convinced you can have an Amiga-like modern (= new kernel that supports modern features from the ground up: resource tracking, SMP, 64bit, easily portable with any endian,..) OS without being another Linux or OSX clone.

Yep, this example is not 64bit (I think), but the rest anyway:
https://crackberry.com/heres-how-qnx-looked-1999-running-144mb-floppy

Hard part is to try to drag legacy to next gen & to modern goodies.
I'm afraid human life is too short for that.

"why not using the extra space/memory that is available and cheap today. Other OS just do that."

Annoying thing is how fast eg. windows run out of 6GB RAM + 6GB swap.
(too often firefox+chrome+outlook is enough for that, with 2GB machine I can use one app a time, not fun)
Linux has far smarter use of memory, even when it seem to waste even more.

(today my work laptop hung while trying to enter sleep... now after battery removal+insert, it is useable again for a while, damn crappy "high performance" HP laptops... better than asus/compaq/dell/thinkpad, I think, but anyway)

back to work... trying to launch excel.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@g01df1sh

Quote:

g01df1sh wrote: Well that sums it up had issue with 1607 machines not updating via WSUS. 1511 and 1703 where fine so I thought ok I update one of the troubled 1607 machine to 1703 2.5Hrs later it has finally updated..... Why Microsoft why why why

1607 had a bug which broke WSUS. If you install the latest cumulative update manually it'll fix it.

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

@scuzz

Quote:

I do have a Windows 10 machine but don't use it. More like a glorified mobile phone. I had a blow out with Win7 which turned out to be the Nvidia in the end. What it brought home was that probably one day I will lose Win7 and that seriously will be a very sad day. I just cannot use Win10.. its a pig. I hate Macs even more and I struggle with Linux. It isn't about the bloat, its about the trivial way it reduces computing to a phone app that I hate. The difference between 7 and 10 is just so large. I used 10 for like a week before I just had to get 7 working again.

I like Windows 10*. I never got on with 7 much, actually the last version of Windows I tolerated was Windows 2000.

Microsoft have actually taken feedback on board with Windows 10. It's faster, and less annoying. Really, I hated Windows. Every new version they just made it more irritating to use. Windows 10 is different.

I understand what you are saying about it being like a mobile phone. I think that's sort of the point - they are trying to merge desktop and phone/tablet interfaces and the new look (Windows Common Platform or whatever they call it - the Windows store apps) is basically a tablet interface. I don't necessarily see a problem with it, having icons that don't really mean anything and don't have tooltips is slightly annoying, but yoou can click the thing which looks like an Android menu button and it'll give a text version. The main thing is that these are sandboxed, so it makes the system much more secure.

People are used to the phone/tablet look and functionality now. It's a bit more locked down, but you can see why Microsoft are heading that way - even though they destroyed their phone division (personally I wouldn't go anywhere near Windows on a phone or tablet and would rather not use it on a desktop, but as I have to Windows 10 is the best version of Windows to use IMO).

* by which, I think I mean, I like Windows 10 as far as Windows goes.

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

We all hate it when we have to start paying monthly to use the crappy system..

_________________
A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
Elbox empty Power Tower
RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC
Wii with Amiga emulation
Vampire v4 SA

While I've been an Amiga user and Windows user since 1992, I have to say that both have progressed nicely. I do prefer the simplicity of the Amiga and less "Bloat" it's OS has on the Hard Drive and in my everyday use of the system. To be fair to Windows, has come a long way since it's initial incarnation. Yes it is "Bloated" but it does everything I want to do - Zero issues. I'm wondering why some of you are having such issues with Windows. I've done quite well with building my own custom PCs and utilizing fast and powerful hardware like NVMe SSD Drives, DDR4 Memory and GTX 1080 Ti graphics cards. And I know, I can already hear some of you - But Windows needs that to be faster/efficient. Maybe so, but the OS is super complex. Amiga OS 4.1, while not nearly as complex, is far more efficient. I guess this is just becoming part of the norm with the PC world. I've actually been looking to move to Apple, but need to learn to like their OS. For now, it's still going to be a PC/Windows world till someone can bring back the Amiga magic is a really big way. Here's hoping for an Amiga future. Thanks.

Ed

_________________
Amiga 1200 - ACA 1233 68030 128MB Ram
8GB CF With tons of Classics

AmigaOne X5000

Raspberry PI 400 - PiMiga 1.5
"That which doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger" - Someone important, but I forgot who

@edponpon

Windows also needs weird hacks to get it working as expected! I downloaded the wrong version of Windows 7 Pro (German) and found that a third party app was required to install English onto Windows 7 Pro as only Ultimate and Enterprise allow different languages out of the box!! Crazy I don't think Windows 10 has this limitation.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

Win7 HomePro but still can't find anything if something is installed everywhere in bits and pieces.

Wifes updated (and others) 10 is worse if I go there it's hard to find even a sd card for me as they are full of crap.

(These people never maintain their os, they just buy a new one, like a car when it gets dirty nearly..)

@BigD

Huh? You downloaded wrong version yet it's Windows "fault" ?
I know people like to bitch for no particular reason, but that's a stretch, even for this site.

Also strange as Win7 pro (heck even home) do indeed have multiple languages ootb.

Some weird, hacked, pirated Windows by the sound of things. And yet you're complaining?
Given your overt religious nature Im surprised you'd steal so blatantly. Most other religious people I know tend to fear getting spanked by mythical fairies (ie. fear of God).

Last edited by fishy_fis on 25-Oct-2017 at 04:18 PM.

@fishy_fis

We have a couple of windows 7 PC in the factory that where installed by Germans and have German Language. No way of changing without using third party software that's very helpful Microsoft. Surely being able to change Language after install is not to much to ask and should be part of all versions. Bet Apple don't do that or Linux.

_________________
A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
Elbox empty Power Tower
RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC
Wii with Amiga emulation
Vampire v4 SA

@g01df1sh

I accidently installed German with a friends Win7 Pro pc a few months ago.
Took about 15 seconds to change and required no add-ons.

Seems bizarre to me to hear these things 'cos theyre completely contrary to my experiences.
What the heck are you guys doing (or not) that makes things so much more difficult than it is for most people ?

@fishy_fis

Quote:

fishy_fis wrote: @g01df1sh I accidently installed German with a friends Win7 Pro pc a few months ago. Took about 15 seconds to change and required no add-ons. Seems bizarre to me to hear these things 'cos theyre completely contrary to my experiences. What the heck are you guys doing (or not) that makes things so much more difficult than it is for most people ?

You're wrong! You need Vistalizator to change the display language for Windows 7 Home and Pro. It's ridiculous but it's a fact and yes downloading a german version of Windows 7 IS a risk if you buy a legit product key off a german website! Would I make the same mistake again? Ans: No, but it was damn annoying until I spotted the link below:

http://www.froggie.sk/en/7lp64rtm.html

Quote:

Did you buy a Windows laptop from abroad and want it to talk to you in your mother tongue? Try Vistalizator - this tool allows you to change display language in Windows editions other than (officially supported) Ultimate, like Starter, Home Basic, Home Premium and Business/Professional. Vistalizator overrides the limit of one MUI language on non-Ultimate Windows editions. See details about using multiple languages in Windows.

Last edited by BigD on 25-Oct-2017 at 05:17 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios