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      /  It's time to join the forces - Part IV
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PosterThread
Zylesea 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 8:38:03
#201 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2064
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@bison


The other option is to stay where we are and make existing users happy (vampire is a example for that). I think second is all what is left, make drastic changes and add MP and 64bit is doable but who will make the software for it? In my view NG (at least MorphOS) should have done that from day one. Today it is too late


Well, back in the day that was on the agenda. The new kernel and the idea of boxes was all to prepare the OS for this. Unfortunately no other box than the Abox was actually done. Too much work and not much interest. The idea of QBox was nice, but it never got beyond the idea state. I think with MorphOS 2.x the idea to maybe add another box to MorphOS was given up completely (main reason: realization of limited resources, focus on the fun side of the MorphOS project - which is Amiga).

Today (or since about 10 years now) ppc is completely dead and there is only one option left (except abandoning it): switching ISA. And with this switch that inevitably brings a binary compability break MorphOS will use the chance of the day to change its API to modern standards.


I still think the switch to x64 could revitalize the box approach, I wrote about a while back
http://via.i-networx.de/q86.htm


_________________
My programs: www.via-altera.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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OlafS25 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 9:07:36
#202 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5192
From: Unknown

@ferrels

AROS has but only on X86... and the problem stays. You need a team of developers updating it that do not exist

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OlafS25 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 9:14:36
#203 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5192
From: Unknown

@Zylesea

perhaps MorphOS devs really offer a new modern platform some day but then it will only run on limited number of hardware (I do not know if they will support something like VMWare). People will hardly buy dedicated hardware for it, except the enthusiasts. The second problem stays... who will develop for it? For third party developers the market is too small and even MorphOS devs outside team (seem to me not many) might not all support the new platform. Additionally certainly devs left in the past and took sources with them so recompiling is not possible. The new OS will have even less software than the existing MorphOS on PPC.

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Zylesea 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 9:55:10
#204 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2064
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@OlafS25

I guess noone expects MorphOS x64 to become a major business success. It may, but it's very, very, very unlikely. And that's not the motivation behind the project, primary motivation is to do it. If it gets used, fine. If not, well, then not.
Not so different from AROS in that regard.

Anyway, MorphOS has its share of problems and prob #1 is the delayed 3.10 release (way overdue!).

_________________
My programs: www.via-altera.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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nikosidis 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 9:59:30
#205 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 675
From: Norway, Oslo

@ferrels

Strange that I can do most of my tasks on AROS and you say it is nostalgic. I don't see anything nostalgic in a mothern browser like Odyssey and MPlayer that play all kind of media formats. Best most understandable, configurable OS. Many music and gfx programs to be creative. Even some games and lot's of Emulators to play 1000 of games if I want.
If you think everyone knows everything about computers you are wrong. If you present something to people, could be just a nice painting program or even a game you demonstrate, sure could be sold.

Did not someone do a presentation with Hollywood running Sam hardware for dentists that sold quite a few?

Many things are possible. You just need a team and money. Potential is huge and the price must be right for what you want to sell.

As said before we are talking a free open source OS as a alternative to Linux. Don't want to compare to Apple or Win. and the professional market you can also forget. You don't use Amiga as OS in a space station ;)

Last edited by nikosidis on 06-Feb-2018 at 10:20 AM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 06-Feb-2018 at 10:02 AM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 06-Feb-2018 at 10:01 AM.

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vision 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 19:39:58
#206 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 453
From: Unknown

@bison

Quote:
Right now it's not an issue (as far as I know) because there are so few AmigaOS users on the Internet that it's not an interesting target. But if it were to become more popular, it would be a problem. Any attempt to transform AmigaOS into a modern OS would have to begin with memory protection and process isolation, which would break compatibility with most existing software.


Thanks for opening our eyes about this crucial problem. It fell over me like a stab in the heart, but I preffer to confront the situation as it is, we have been cheating ourselves for too many time.

I don´t know if MP will be too hard to implement on AROS, I hope not, but until we don´t have it working (with 64 bits and smp, which are both almost ready) we won't have no chances to attract new users: security has become a CRUCIAL requirement these days, and any media or forum which could tell them Aros is very insecure, will scary them.

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ferrels 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 0:47:36
#207 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 702
From: Arizona

@nikosidis



Quote:
Strange that I can do most of my tasks on AROS and you say it is nostalgic.


Then you're obviously not doing anything more complex than word processing. Odyssey is a mess and requires MPlayer to even display videos and whenever YouTube or other video sites change protocols or video formats, you're essentially screwed. You're obviously only playing 16-bit games from the 80's and 90's as well since not a single Amiga or Amiga-like system support any modern graphics standards. And any Amiga 3D games are stuck back in 1998 with a sad subset of OpenGL 1.3 or lesser.

So no, you're only making my point that these systems are great for the nostalgia factor and that's about it.

Call me back when AROS has a video editing suite that can handle x265, support for OpenGL 4 or better, a modern office suite and a browser that doesn't choke on video or SSL sites.

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ferrels 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 0:52:28
#208 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 702
From: Arizona

@OlafS25

Quote:
AROS has but only on X86... and the problem stays. You need a team of developers updating it that do not exist


No, there's an x64 build that supports SMP and it's quite stable. I've been testing it for quite some time, but the network drivers aren't working or I'd consider installing it on a standalone system instead of using it under VMWare.

We're in agreement though in regard to a team of developers being required to move it forward. A team to focus on the OS and drivers and another set of application programmers to start porting useful apps.

I develop in C/C++ and I'm waiting for the driver situation to improve before I start porting my LIDAR apps over to AROS x64. 32-bit operating systems are useless to me because the apps that I develop require a 64-bit address space to handle the huge point clouds that I work with.

Last edited by ferrels on 07-Feb-2018 at 12:54 AM.

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bison 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 1:42:49
#209 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 992
From: N-Space

@paolone

Quote:
You can use Icaros Desktop hosted on Linux.

I downloaded the light version this morning and discovered that it will not boot from a USB stick, at least not on my UEFI system. It was at this point that I realized that I had tried the same thing last year with the same results.

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bison 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 7-Feb-2018 1:51:58
#210 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 992
From: N-Space

@vision

Quote:
security has become a CRUCIAL requirement these days, and any media or forum which could tell them Aros is very insecure, will scary them.

I run AROS hosted on Linux (but not Icaros as of yet -- see previous post) and do all my web browsing on the Linux side. This is relatively safe, as far as I know, although after Spectre I think it would be inadvisable to be sure of that.

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Hypex 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 10-Feb-2018 13:18:36
#211 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8970
From: Greensborough, Australia

@paolone

Quote:
Short and simple answer: No. Ask your girlfriend about sex and money, if she agreed with the same comment.


Haha. Now that's funny.

Quote:
AROS costs 0, but gives me a huge amount of fun. AmigaOS 4.x costs 30 euros, but it gives me no fun at all. Guess what's the most vaulable to me.


Well I would say that's because it starts at 30 but then you gotta spend more for drivers and other software to get real use out of it. It used to hold it's own. But now the state of it is fractured.

Your other points are quite valid.

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ntromans 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 10-Feb-2018 18:55:34
#212 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Jul-2004
Posts: 103
From: West Midlands, UK

@ferrels

I think you must be using an old version of AROS OWB. It hasn't needed mplayer support to show YouTube videos for some time, and for me the videos on most sites play OK in the browser - even on FaceBook.

As to how useful AROS (or any other Amiga style OS) may or may not be for an individual's needs, it is horses for courses. I can do all of things I need to do as a teacher on AROS, and if it wasn't for having to access Microsoft documents I really would not need to turn on my work laptop. At home OWB copes with the vast majority of websites I need to access, YAM does the e-mail and MPlayer handles the entertainment. Games I don't miss as I've never really been a video games fan. I do have the occasional game of Cube 2, and I don't think it can be that bad as whenever I show AROS at the Recursion Computer Fair it's always very popular with the teenagers. I will agree, though, a video editing suite would be very desirable.

Cheers,
Nigel.

Last edited by ntromans on 10-Feb-2018 at 07:00 PM.

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vision 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 11-Feb-2018 15:54:35
#213 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 453
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:
Then you're obviously not doing anything more complex than word processing. Odyssey is a mess and requires MPlayer to even display videos and whenever YouTube or other video sites change protocols or video formats, you're essentially screwed. You're obviously only playing 16-bit games from the 80's and 90's as well since not a single Amiga or Amiga-like system support any modern graphics standards. And any Amiga 3D games are stuck back in 1998 with a sad subset of OpenGL 1.3 or lesser.


What are you talking about????



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXlO_lAxLbw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT_KIvnz2rg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Onjwk9XeXWw


https://youtu.be/BQ2evtcm7QU?t=1m46s

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vision 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 12-Feb-2018 21:37:27
#214 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 453
From: Unknown

@bison

install the latest patch

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kolla 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 14-Feb-2018 15:21:06
#215 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 789
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ferrels

Quote:

Call me back when AROS has a video editing suite that can handle x265, support for OpenGL 4 or better, a modern office suite and a browser that doesn't choke on video or SSL sites.


It will, but only on your Vampire V4 of course.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

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vision 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 15-Feb-2018 22:38:14
#216 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 453
From: Unknown

@kolla

Quote:
It will, but NOT on your Vampire V4 of course (sadly not fast enough). Just on v1 and x64


Fixed

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 16-Feb-2018 9:27:15
#217 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2074
From: Ft. Collins, Colorado, USA

@vision

Quote:

vision wrote:
@kolla

Quote:
It will, but NOT on your Vampire V4 of course (sadly not fast enough). Just on v1 and x64


Fixed
...as in unable to reproduce.

Whenever you try to get 3rd party graphics card support involved you end up backporting drivers from Linux which would have been better left on Linux. I use an ODroid XU4 to meet my Linux needs, thanks.

_________________

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vision 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 24-Feb-2018 22:30:44
#218 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 453
From: Unknown

@Samurai_Crow

Quote:
you end up backporting drivers from Linux which would have been better left on Linux


??????????????

Pretentious and false statement

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 25-Feb-2018 15:41:11
#219 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2074
From: Ft. Collins, Colorado, USA

@vision

Mesa on Aros is backported from Linux, as are all of the 3D drivers it uses. Open source drivers show up first there.

_________________

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OneTimer1 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part IV
Posted on 25-Feb-2018 19:28:00
#220 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 308
From: Unknown

@Samurai_Crow

Quote:

Samurai_Crow wrote:
@vision

Mesa on Aros is backported from Linux, ....


Mesa is not a part of Linux, because Linux is just a kernel.

But Mesa is used in some Linux distributions like a lot of other things that are not made by the Linux team.

Quote:

Developer(s) Currently: Intel, AMD, VMware
Formerly: Tungsten Graphics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_(computer_graphics)

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 25-Feb-2018 at 07:29 PM.

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