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      /  What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
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Poll : What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Legal actions
IP and rights situation
Amiga community divisions
Lack of dedicated software
Lack of browser-office applications
The Amiga doesn't have a strong leadership
Missing of a future vision
 
PosterThread
Signal 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 19-Apr-2018 15:36:37
#161 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 664
From: USA

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
Yes all working together would be good but for that to happen you would need to brainwash a lot of people ;)

Do you really think AROS fanatics could be 'brainwashed' into programming for AmigaOS 4 ?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 19-Apr-2018 15:41:52
#162 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Signal

What type soap is best for brain washing?

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EDanaII 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 19-Apr-2018 16:13:49
#163 ]
Member
Joined: 21-Dec-2011
Posts: 87
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
What type soap is best for brain washing?


S.ome O.ver-zealous A.miga P.eople. ;)

Last edited by EDanaII on 19-Apr-2018 at 04:14 PM.

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Srtest 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 20-Apr-2018 0:17:01
#164 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 259
From: Israel, Haderah

Is it funny that this has been going on for a while now? I mean my 3-4 years have been this way and that only a fraction.

1. On one hand you don't want this discussion to be yet again about what is an Amiga that needs to move forward past a certain blockage. Well, if the Amiga as we know it, became what it is because of the community, past its intial big bang startup then it's obvious why this happens again and again because those objects are factors which need to push something forward when that something might be a blockage in itself.

2. On the other hand, you have this varied and different factorts which seem to put a stop to Amiga's effort and whatever good will is left (whatever Amiga is let's just get on with it, etc etc). On top of that not only there are different factors you also have this community divided on which factor is the most relevant to our current status. A matter of priorites if you will. So ot seems the divide of the comminity is also about those underlying factors. I mean, can't we just agree on one and move from there? that is funny. Unless you takee into account that maybe this community is defined by a computer or a perception of commputer so its members won't have to deal with what actually makes a community, a community.

3. That is why I suggest that if there is one underlying factor in paying and sustaining development either directly by financing development or by "taking care" of this community members, then you can simply being up a universal Amiga cause in contributing funds to help "Amiga development" regardless of the platform. Which means, one simply can donate to help any kind of amiga world (no pun intended) development in a way that will surpass the current technological choces. Another option which I don't know why it wasn't suggested earlier is to make some kind of a real club of connections when if someone sees an opportunity which an Amiga member can enjoy that someone will bring it here first. A circle of trust of you prefer. On both occasions you will get a test, separating the elements which consider themselves part of all this from those who have other reasons to be here. I for one am willing to be the first to donate to an Amiga cause for whatever platform as long as that is a unification of every available developer which will, at least try, to develop for every branch of Amiga.

Either that or waiting for you company saviour, or maybe going for that extra percent on web browser and office tools and declaring it the deciding factor that inhibits development...

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remotenemesis 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 20-Apr-2018 3:25:10
#165 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2018
Posts: 94
From: SF Bay Area, California

@bison

Quote:
The fact that there's an Amiga community at all, after all these years, is more amazing than depressing, at least for me. If I were a sociologist I think I would find this phenomenon interesting.


This!

And the nice thing about open source is you can find a way to help if you care – it doesn't just have to be code.

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OlafS25 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 20-Apr-2018 8:43:31
#166 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Signal

difficult

as long as Hyperion insists on NDAs and nobody ever in touch with the sources is allowed to do anything on other platforms

Working together anyway would mean (in my view) to agree on a common API that should be open so everybody can contribute

But already on agreeing on a common API would it fail

Everybody would say this or that he added or changed on the original API should become standard, the ideas would be controversial, a loud argument would start and it would end in a fight

Last edited by OlafS25 on 20-Apr-2018 at 08:53 AM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 22-Apr-2018 19:05:35
#167 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3512
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
Working together anyway would mean (in my view) to agree on a common API that should be open so everybody can contribute


Or an API merge?

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Trekiej 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 22-Apr-2018 23:50:47
#168 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 890
From: Unknown

The Amiga is not leading edge any more.

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fishy_fis 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 23-Apr-2018 1:25:14
#169 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

In a nutshell:

The fact that it's of no interest or serious use to most people, the hardware, the software, the price , the OS and the community. Covers most of the problems.

Its a niche, it always will be. Honestly, 10x the price for at best 1/10th the performance vs a mainstream system, and more basic with at best modest support,....... how is it difficult to understand that it's a hard sell?

Personally I suggest enjoying it if you're inclined rather than worrying about what others are doing.

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Trekiej 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 23-Apr-2018 3:08:49
#170 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 890
From: Unknown

I believe the next Amiga could be a completely reconfigurable computer.
How many full fledged machines can do that?
I know that there is mini-mig, etc.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 23-Apr-2018 9:53:35
#171 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3512
From: Unknown

@thread

Well, seems that this thread has reached it's natural end, since no more vote are being added.

I started this thread just to know what other users thinks about the arguments presented in the poll options

and, again, since these arguments are very a bit difficult to deal with - although topic themselves are frank

expressions - and can lend to different interpretations (someone might feel directly called into question), the

intention is not to offend anyone, really. Rather someone can take from users's comments (although some of these

have been expressed with little delicacy, sometimes with harshness) to reflect on (food for thought) in order to

verify what can be improved and makes their move and adjustament accordingly.

Personally I think the Amiga community is very strong, and over time it has proved to be hard to die.
Companies like A-eon, A-Cube have done their best (under certain hard circumstances) to keep the platform alive,

producing good hardware that we still uses today, showing a passionate interest for the platform .
Cloanto, for example, is committed to preserving Amiga's precious intellectual property in many ways. For

example, it was often generous by giving free copies of Amiga Forever (in PPC configuration) to developers so

they could continue to develop on amiga (many utilities are on OS4 depot, although now it is not the case of

revelers the authors).
What about Hyperion? OS4 is definitely a great product (althought not complete, imho) and programmers are great
,very professional. Hyperion too had to face numerous difficulties, like trials, but still here.

The users thinks that the main problem for Amiga to take off (again) is the lack of productivity software, such

Office applications and a modern browser. This could really curb someone from embarking on the next gen Amiga

adventure. Yes, it could be. Someone else thinks that modern feature of the OS (such SMP and memory protection)

are a must have today. I can agree with this too.

The main problem, i think, is related to the Amiga divisions and the needs to create an unique platform, under

one name only and one company only that can gain trust between users and the general public and, why not, among

possible investors that can see in Amiga a nice market, not just for crazy fans, but also an alternative to the

frenetic and convulsive IT world of today's. Yes, a simple platform with a rich eritage and past, with thousand

of followers ready to come back to the platform that can make them remember when the computing was fun.


The problem is also of course related to the FULL Amiga IP rights and patents, including names.


Would you be willing to buy a house where foreclosures or mortgages hang, or an house where you don't know the

owner? Or where many owners claim to own at least one room in the house?

This isn't simple feasible, do you agree?


I really hope that Amiga would become again a great platform, like in the past, something ahead of its time,

something that just looking at it or hearing at it, made jaws falling on the desk and saying:

looks, i'ts an Amiga!



Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 23-Apr-2018 at 10:00 AM.
Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 23-Apr-2018 at 10:00 AM.
Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 23-Apr-2018 at 09:56 AM.

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Tomppeli 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 23-Apr-2018 11:07:58
#172 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1652
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:
Amiga to take off

At first define what "taking off" means. If it means 1% or more market share of the computer market then some are right that why would anybody switch from a Windows computer to AmigaOne if the Windows machine can do it all already and usually better. If you want some people to come back to the platform to increase the community to some 20000 or so users. One chance could be: Put a A1222 into a wedge shaped case like X500 of TheDaddy, RunInUAE is nice but make the chipset emulation even more transparent to get easy use of the old stuff. With the modern hardware people could keep using it after playing an old game or demo instead of powering on their Windows machine to check a couple of small things in the web.

Quote:
I really hope that Amiga would become again a great platform, like in the past, something ahead of its time

I have been thinking how to change computing and make it better. It's really really difficult to get even one small good idea. Also cell phones and smart TV sets are already very capable devices so I would say why would the most of the people need a desktop or laptop computer for anything anymore. If you want to have some jaw dropping product you have to think far beyond the PC computers and cell phones. Far beyond.

I have some ideas but I need collaborators (mainly computer engineers) for help and investors.

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Tomppeli 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 23-Apr-2018 13:10:43
#173 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1652
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@AmigaBlitter

If the community wants a new OS with all the bells and whistles and get all the camps to work together for one goal. I would take some already existing kernel like DragonFly, Minix or maybe even Linux. Make a nice Amiga like window manager on top of that, port Reaction and MUI, implement RexxMaster to handle scripting command ports (Python can be used instead of Rexx and so on...). Port Magellan to it. That's it.

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Hypex 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 23-Apr-2018 15:24:01
#174 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@OlafS25

Quote:
Working together anyway would mean (in my view) to agree on a common API that should be open so everybody can contribute


Perhaps it would, but how would Hyperion, who are in control of the OS4 sources work with the others? It would be like sleeping with the enemy. Regardless of how Hyperion see it they are the competition.

We could also say the AmigaOne with OS4 is in competition with PPC Macs running MorphOS and PCs running AROS.

But one thing should be pointed out that we all know. Both MorphOS and AROS are cover versions. Designed to clone AmigaOS3.1 and go beyond it. We could argue that they did a cleaner job of porting the API to another ISA. Or have better ideas of adding features. Or that since in any case AmigaOS had to be reimplemented with a clean break and throwing out legacy code. But what does this matter? What ever Hyperion did to modify the code, update it or rewrite it; they had the original code. The others didn't, all they have are cover versions, as accurate as they may be. It's just not the same. I think this matters as to why they aren't joining forces. Which I don't see happening.

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kolla 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 23-Apr-2018 17:47:06
#175 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Hypex

Remember the old slogan - Amiga OS4, hand written from scratch using the original sources!

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nikosidis 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 23-Apr-2018 20:31:20
#176 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 994
From: Norway, Oslo

This is some of the most negative shit I ever read.
Why are most of you even here at amigaworld.

Linux looks like crap, feels like crap. I totaly hate to use it. There are for sure people that love to use it but not me. Not even the slightest interested in learning anything about that ugly OS.
The times I installed it it did not take many hours before I unistalled it. I must admit I have Ubuntu on a laptop in my daughters room. It is only used to watch youtube video when she is going to sleep :)
As a OS for running a web-browser it is for sure no different than other operating systems.

New people might very well understand unconfigurable lame OS like Apple much easier than AmigaOS but AmigaOS is what I like and know best. I'm not interested in other OS even if windows is what I use at work and AmigaOS could never fit that role.
Every workbench is different. Every workbench is beautifull in its own scense. AmigaOS was and is for gamers and creative people.

I never quite understood why people are so interested in word prosessor for Amiga or Amiga like OS.
If you like to write something in AmigaOS do it in a editor ;)

All this technical talk is not for normal people. Do a cheap Amiga based computer and if you have a few original cool games people might buy it just for the fun of it. Bundle with some creativy open source software like GraphX2 a tracker and some other creative programs and you might have something. Amiga or amiga like will not be the most advanced computer out there but looking at Nintendo it was never that advanced compared to other platforms either but they focused on original family frendly games.
Windows, Linux, Apple are not realy gaming mashines. Try to play a game and you wait for 1 hour for all kind of update crap before you can play. New Nvidia drivers, OS security update bla, bla.

I can not understand how a OS is dead when I'm using it. Not to be difficult, I get the point but the problem is the focus. Don't think about all the stuff we don't have. It works very well with a lot of stuff. I give you one example.
I have many emulators installed. The other day I played MAME games and a few days later with my son. Pacman, Bombjack, 1944 etc. etc. Very enjoyable to use AROS for that task. Nice interface. Very plug and play. Using DOpus it is easy and understandable to unpack games, rename mutible files, copy, move whatever file management is just at least to me so much better than on other platforms.
The OS structure I understand. Looking at windows, Linux, ChromeOS it is just a bloated mess at least to me. I use AmigaOS then. Maybe I'm a dinosour I don't care. That is what I know best and like. End of story.




Last edited by nikosidis on 23-Apr-2018 at 09:07 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 23-Apr-2018 at 09:06 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 23-Apr-2018 at 09:04 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 23-Apr-2018 at 08:48 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 23-Apr-2018 at 08:37 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 23-Apr-2018 at 08:32 PM.

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BigD 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 23-Apr-2018 21:23:55
#177 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@nikosidis

Nice post, well said. Regarding Word Processing I get what you're saying. The Amiga was better at DTP rather than Word Processing. It's a shame Word and Illustrator killed Quark, PageStream and pretty much every other DTP solution. PageStream is a fun program but it didn't have a development team to keep it mainstream

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bison 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 23-Apr-2018 22:47:11
#178 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@Tomppeli

Quote:
Also cell phones and smart TV sets are already very capable devices so I would say why would the most of the people need a desktop or laptop computer for anything anymore.

That's a good point.

Thirty years ago the only people I knew who had computers were enthusiasts such as myself, and they were all desktop systems. Fifteen years ago almost everyone I knew had a desktop system. Today it's back to what it was thirty years ago.

My order of use is desktop, laptop, tablet, and phone, which is just about the opposite of so-called "normal" people.

This might not be great for Amiga, but it's got to be ominous for Microsoft, since they have been shut out of the phone market.

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bison 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 23-Apr-2018 22:48:53
#179 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@nikosidis

Quote:
The times I installed it it did not take many hours before I unistalled it.

It is going to take more time than that to learn your way around it.

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nikosidis 
Re: What you think is actually blocking the Amiga Take off?
Posted on 24-Apr-2018 13:53:17
#180 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 994
From: Norway, Oslo

@bison

I was kind of kidding. I spendt much more that a few hours with Linux. As I said I hate the look and feel of it. Yes I know all sudo shit can be removed but it is still no fun to me. I don't like the file system and I will never understand the system files there. It is a complete mess to me. I had lot's of problems with different programs too. Not working as should, crash etc.
For a serious work OS system I much prefer Windows.
For fun, creativity, games I prefer AmigaOS.

Last edited by nikosidis on 24-Apr-2018 at 01:54 PM.

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