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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
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Anonymous 
Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 1:49:49
# ]



I know, the idea of Amiga OS 4.0 on a Mac is sac-religious. But is it possible? I've run Mac OS 8 (68k) on an Amiga 1200. I read the following on the Amiga website:

New functionality introduced by ExecSG:

Fully PPC native: not a single 68k instruction left in ExecSG.
68k emulation: both interpreting and JIT emulation available (see below), JIT for speed, interpreting for compatibility.
Extremely fast context switching times: 1 microsecond on a 600 MHz G3.

So does this mean that it will work on a G4 Mac? I have a G4 Mac Powerbook.

 
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tomazkid 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 1:56:43
#2 ]
Team Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11692
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

@HighLander

I think it has been answeared allready in some older thread.

The answear was no, due to A1 using the Uboot/different hardware, and the need for Apple-license.
The Apple-license is needed to get proper documentation of the Mac-hardware and to awoid lawsuits etc.

With a little reservation of me not remembering all the details in that old thread

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Anonymous 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 1:56:54
# ]



@HighLander

Short answer: No

Long answer: As much as I'd love to run OS4 on this G4 Mac I'm using here, it's not going to happen. The main reason being that Apple do not give out the technical specs of thier hardware that would be needed to run OS4 on a mac. They wish for you only to use MacOS. Just because it is the same CPU doesn't mean that it will automatically run on that system.

There are other reasons from Hyperions point of view, but I won't go through them now.

 
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Anonymous 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 2:12:35
# ]



Ahhh. I see. That's a shame. Not many G3/4 Amigas under $300 I would guess.

 
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Anonymous 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 3:09:41
# ]



@HighLander

I always hear that Apple will not allow anything but their OS to run on their Macs, but there are several VARs shipping G5s with PPC Linux. Apple is in the business of selling hardware afterall and not operating systems. The software is the bait to lure you to buy the hardware, which is why they give so much of it away with their systems.
If these companies can get cooperation from Apple, then most likely others can too.

 
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CodeSmith 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 4:02:38
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@icreate

I bet Apple collects licensing fees from these companies too, and I wouldn't be too surprised if those fees were a lot more than the supposed "$50 dongle fee" of the AmigaOne (was that ever substantiated?)

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CodeSmith 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 4:03:16
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@HighLander

Where can I buy a (new) Mac for $300?

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Rogue 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 9:04:14
#8 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@HighLander

Quote:
But is it possible?


Possible - yes. Planned - no.

Quote:
So does this mean that it will work on a G4 Mac? I have a G4 Mac Powerbook.


How did you get to that idea? The quoted paragraph only say something about ExecSG, not about Apple hardware.

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EntilZha 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 9:06:54
#9 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 27-Aug-2003
Posts: 1679
From: The Jedi Academy, Yavin 4

@icreate

Quote:
but there are several VARs shipping G5s with PPC Linux.


Linux is not commercial.

Quote:
Apple is in the business of selling hardware afterall and not operating systems


MacOS X is no OS, then ?

Quote:
If these companies can get cooperation from Apple, then most likely others can too.


You're comparing apples with oranges (pun slightly intended ) Just bundling Linux with a Mac probably does not require any cooperation from Apple. Getting hardware documentation will. And I'm sure as hell not going to wade through tons of Linux source code to find out how the Apple hardware works.

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"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

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Rogue 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 9:07:27
#10 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@icreate

Quote:
Apple is in the business of selling hardware afterall and not operating systems.


Oh, that's a good explanation why they ask money for it, and why you even have to pay for 10.2/10.3 udates even if you just bought 10.1 from a company that has no interest in selling them

Quote:
If these companies can get cooperation from Apple, then most likely others can too.


I'm sure if you put a big sack of money on Steve Jobs' desk, he wil start to consider asking his secretary to make an appointment. I've got my slight problems believing though that very much comes out of it.

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MrX 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 9:10:12
#11 ]
New Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2004
Posts: 8
From: Unknown

@HighLander

Fellow MrX's,

I think it could be possible to run OS4 an a power mac if someone writes a WINE-like application for OSX. (i.e., a program that lets you run OS4 within OSX. This may resolve the licencing issues will Apple. This may not resolve the licencing issues with KMOS/AInc. though.

Anyone got any thoughts on this idea ?

Cheers,

MrX.

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clebin 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 10:23:22
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Cardiff

@MrX

Or MacOnLinux. Does Hyperion have a view about a 3rd party AmigaOnMac? Obviously, you can't stop someone from developing it, but do you have a view on whether it would be a positive thing for the Amiga?

On the one hand, we don't know how much harm this would do to AmigaOne sales, which is the primary platform; AmigaOnMac wouldn't be a full, immersive experience and might compare badly to OS X in that environment; it might convince users that they don't need the real thing, whilst not motivating them enough to buy Amiga software.

On the other hand, the numbers we are talking about could be much bigger than AmigaOne sales; getting software into people's hands is usually a good thing; being open and having some element of cross-platform functionality is a good thing; and it might take the fear away for those undecided about purchasing an AmigaOne and actually drive sales.

I don't really have the answer - I can see both sides of the argument.

Chris

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Rogue 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 10:28:39
#13 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@clebin


Note that this isn't an official Hyperion statement (as stated in my sig):

Quote:
Does Hyperion have a view about a 3rd party AmigaOnMac?


There is not going to be an AmigaOS 4.0 being sold without hardware, except for the classic version. That means that other than buying an AmigaOne, there is no way to legally obtain a copy of AmigaOS 4.0. Hence, any attempt in that direction would provoke piracy.

Quote:
we don't know how much harm this would do to AmigaOne sales


It would most certainly not encourage them.

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Adlib 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 1-Jun-2004 13:27:30
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2002
Posts: 792
From: England, United Kingdom

@Rogue

AmigaOne needs all the sales it can get

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Anonymous 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 2-Jan-2005 6:57:36
# ]



seriously is it that hard, its a prop boios and standard pc crap pci agp ide and pc66-100 ram
your not gonna sell crap to a propiratry system, its not 1984 anymore. if i can run windows nt, beos, linux, and unix on a G4 amiga needs to also its called a new world bios and its pretty darn open.

Last edited by beef on 02-Jan-2005 at 06:59 AM.

 
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EntilZha 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 2-Jan-2005 11:27:38
#16 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 27-Aug-2003
Posts: 1679
From: The Jedi Academy, Yavin 4

@ beef

You just didn't get it, don't you ?

Last edited by EntilZha on 02-Jan-2005 at 11:30 AM.
Last edited by EntilZha on 02-Jan-2005 at 11:29 AM.

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Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

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Seer 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 2-Jan-2005 11:33:51
#17 ]
Team Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2003
Posts: 3725
From: The Netherlands

@EntilZha

You just didn't get it, don't you ?

You had to ask ? How many times have you and your Brother explained this here, on ANN and other sites ? No offence to Highlander, but this is almost a weekly topic on one site or another..

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terminator 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 2-Jan-2005 12:55:04
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 19-Nov-2003
Posts: 322
From: Unknown

@Uncharted
Quote:
s much as I'd love to run OS4 on this G4 Mac I'm using here, it's not going to happen. The main reason being that Apple do not give out the technical specs of thier hardware that would be needed to run OS4 on a mac. They wish for you only to use MacOS. Just because it is the same CPU doesn't mean that it will automatically run on that system.


Keep in mind how closely tied Apple's name is to the Macintosh brand. When people see the Apple logo on a computer, they have certain expectations, good or bad. Last thing Apple wants is something that replaces their OS with another OS that may not be as good.

In much the same matter that Rolls Royce didn't like customers like Keith Richards.

PC buyers on the other hand, seem to expect problems, and accept them as part of the admission price. Apple has carefully cultivated a image of "ease of use", and is very protective of it.

As to Apple VARs selling G5 boxes with Linux installed, there is probably an agreement there where Apple doesn't support this setup, and the buyer has specifically requested Linux for a specialized application. It's just not available outside those channels. Porting most Unix packages over to OSX isn't really a big hassle like it would be for windows.

Besides, if you have OSX and want to do Unix stuff like command line, why would you install Linux?

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HMK 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 2-Jan-2005 13:04:19
#19 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2003
Posts: 246
From: Denmark

Isn't it about what makes business sense?

Would OS4 really sell more if it were available as a separate product to any PPC platform?

It's a bit like the old question of porting AmigaOS to x86 hardware. It would be technically a nice thing, but it would kill AmigaOS pretty much immediately in a BeOS'ish fashion. There's this little OS called MacOSX which pretty much dominates PPC right now, just like Windows does on x86. OS4 would become a curiosity rather than something serious.

How little or how much we like it, bundling OS4 with A1 gives control over where OS4 is run and that makes it possible for it to dominate on A1.

OS4 needs focus and direction, and it can't go there without a platform that is under control with similar amounts of focus and direction.

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Georg 
Re: Amiga OS 4.0 on G4 Macintosh?
Posted on 2-Jan-2005 13:13:54
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 433
From: Unknown

@Rogue

Quote:
That means that other than buying an AmigaOne, there is no way to legally obtain a copy of AmigaOS 4.0


Sooner or later (AmigaOS 4.1) that will have to change, anyway. Or how are future versions supposed to be sold?

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