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peggus
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Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 29-Jul-2003 17:09:00
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Regular Member |
Joined: 7-Jul-2003 Posts: 159
From: Pasadena | | |
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| Considering the recent release of the OpenGl 1.5 and to a lesser extent the 2.0 specifications/suggestions. I wonder how compatible Nova will be with these upcoming standards?
-Peter
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turkamigaman
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 29-Jul-2003 18:51:18
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Cult Member |
Joined: 9-May-2003 Posts: 707
From: Izmir Turkiye | | |
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| Yes Who knows and explain what is going there? _________________ ........./// . . www.commodoreturk.com ......../// . . . www.amigaturk.com \\..../// . . . . .www.webtur.org .\\\./// . . . . . www.ac7.org |
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Rogue
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 29-Jul-2003 19:53:01
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OS4 Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jul-2003 Posts: 3999
From: Unknown | | |
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| Quote:
peggus wrote: Considering the recent release of the OpenGl 1.5 and to a lesser extent the 2.0 specifications/suggestions. I wonder how compatible Nova will be with these upcoming standards?
-Peter
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Nova will be as compatible to OpenGL as it is to DirectX - i.e. "not really". Nova will be a more Amiga-oriented API. It will use the means of OS 4 and be more tightly integrated into the system than OpenGL can ever be. Conceptually most modern graphics API'S (OpenGL or DX9) are equivalent, it is mostly a matter of naming and paradigm.
Plans are there for an OpenGL implementation based on the latest Mesa. We do see the need to support an open standard like OpenGL, however, the biggest problem with OpenGL as of today is the speed at which development works - in 11 years it made it up to 1.5 only.
This isn't the biggest problem due to the extensions mechanism of OpenGL as long as you are on Mac/Linux/Windows, but on the Amiga you will run into trouble since some of these extensions (and some of the very important extensions) are proprietary. NV_vertex_program is proprietary for example, meaning you cannot implement in on non-nVidia hardware (Mesa had to obtain an extra clearance for that, and may only implement it in software).
However, these extensions resp. the functionality they provide are somewhat essential. There is no point in having a Radeon 8500 if you cannot support its pixel and vertex shader hardware.
The only soluition is an Amiga-specific graphics API._________________ Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail |
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soft
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 29-Jul-2003 20:14:39
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Joined: 11-Mar-2003 Posts: 209
From: Derbyshire, UK | | |
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| Would it be too difficult to make a wrapper for the Nova API to make it easier to port OpenGL (and possibly even DirectX) applications? |
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alx
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 29-Jul-2003 21:06:10
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Super Member |
Joined: 7-Mar-2003 Posts: 1224
From: Midlands, UK | | |
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| @Rogue
I hadn't noticed that you were posting again - welcome back
I'm no 3D expert, but how similar will Nova be to OpenGL (ie how easy will it be to port OpenGL stuff)? _________________
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peggus
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 29-Jul-2003 21:43:09
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Regular Member |
Joined: 7-Jul-2003 Posts: 159
From: Pasadena | | |
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| Thank you for the quick reply. Much appreciated.
-Peter _________________
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turkamigaman
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 29-Jul-2003 21:43:55
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Cult Member |
Joined: 9-May-2003 Posts: 707
From: Izmir Turkiye | | |
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| @ rogue
This is what I say "clean answer" _________________ ........./// . . www.commodoreturk.com ......../// . . . www.amigaturk.com \\..../// . . . . .www.webtur.org .\\\./// . . . . . www.ac7.org |
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Rogue
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 29-Jul-2003 22:00:04
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OS4 Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jul-2003 Posts: 3999
From: Unknown | | |
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| Quote:
soft wrote: Would it be too difficult to make a wrapper for the Nova API to make it easier to port OpenGL (and possibly even DirectX) applications? |
No, this is perfectly possible. MiniGL basically is that - a wrapper around Warp3D for OpenGL compatibility. And the original StormMesa port was based on Warp3D too.
For Nova we would like to try and integrate the OpenGL port more tightly by using the same drivers for both. But nothing is really written in stone yet._________________ Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail |
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Rogue
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 29-Jul-2003 22:02:44
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OS4 Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jul-2003 Posts: 3999
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alx wrote: @Rogue
I hadn't noticed that you were posting again - welcome back
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Yes, more or less. I'll restrict myself to sensible discussions, though
Quote:
I'm no 3D expert, but how similar will Nova be to OpenGL (ie how easy will it be to port OpenGL stuff)? |
That always depends on the application/Game to port. For some it is easy (like Freespace for example), but for others it is substantially more difficult (Shogo comes to mind)..._________________ Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail |
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hnl_dk
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 29-Jul-2003 22:06:20
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Super Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2003 Posts: 1786
From: Denmark | | |
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| @ Rogue
Hi' Hans-Jörg
Also welcome back from me
Nice to have You around _________________ Best regards, hnl_dk - Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark]
Please send no PM to me, email me if you want to contact me. See you somewhere else. |
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DaveyD
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 29-Jul-2003 22:39:04
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Joined: 5-Jun-2002 Posts: 2738
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herewegoagain
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 30-Jul-2003 0:06:04
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Elite Member |
Joined: 8-Jan-2003 Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC | | |
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Welcome back Hans-Jörg, glad you're back |
Yes, welcome back indeed.
I cannot understand how the rest of you guys remember which is Thomas and which is Hans-Jörg. I just get confused. |
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LordArt
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 30-Jul-2003 0:18:23
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Regular Member |
Joined: 22-Apr-2003 Posts: 113
From: South Bound Brook, NJ | | |
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| @Rogue
Well, I have an OpenGL game that I've been working on for a few years that I was hoping to port back to AOS4(ie. It's on Win32 using a HAL). It is written in OpenGL for the graphics side of it. I'm not doing anything card specific yet (ie. it's currently only using OpenGL 1.1 with only a few minor extensions above that). It's better for me to keep a single code tree, rather than to do a version per OS. Will Nova at least be OpenGL 1.1 compatible in your eyes at present? Could I do something like glPopMatrix()=novaPopMatrix() or is something more complicated needed/foreseen?
Welcome back, BTW. |
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Rogue
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 30-Jul-2003 10:05:52
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OS4 Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jul-2003 Posts: 3999
From: Unknown | | |
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Will Nova at least be OpenGL 1.1 compatible in your eyes at present? |
No, not really. You would either need to use the OpenGL implementation (that is going to be in there), use a wrapper library like MiniGL, or rewrite your code for Nova.
Nova is mostly component-based, meaning it is more similar to DirectX 9. For example, to render the contents of a vertex buffer into the current context, you would do something like
context->SetSource( ... ); context->DrawPrimitiveIndexed( ... );
The same thing in OpenGL would look something like
glInterleavedArrays( ... ); glDrawElements( ... );
As you can see there is a certain duality with OpenGL (and the same holds true for DirectX 9), but it doesn't translate directly.
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Thanks To all of you..._________________ Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail |
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Agafaster
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 30-Jul-2003 10:32:59
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Super Member |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 1413
From: West Midlands, England - sector ZZ9 plural Z alpha | | |
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Rogue wrote: Quote:
Thanks To all of you... |
Oi ! Back to Work you !
only kidding !_________________ XH558 - the worlds last flying Vulcan. ok, its actually XL426 in the picture but you know what I mean. |
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ikir
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 30-Jul-2003 10:48:23
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Elite Member |
Joined: 18-Dec-2002 Posts: 5647
From: Italy | | |
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| Welcome back, and thanks for the professional replies
Happy to have you here _________________ ikir |
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ssolie
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 30-Jul-2003 14:57:11
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada | | |
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| Without Nova, Game -> OpenGL API -> OpenGL driver -> Warp3D driver -> Hardware
With Nova, Game -> Nova API -> Nova driver -> Hardware
With Nova and OpenGL, Game -> ((OpenGL API -> OpenGL driver) | (Nova API)) -> Nova driver -> Hardware
Am I getting close? _________________ ExecSG Team Lead |
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Rogue
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 30-Jul-2003 18:20:23
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OS4 Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jul-2003 Posts: 3999
From: Unknown | | |
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It's really more like the OpenGL API and NOVA API building on some common 3D kernel. That keeps the paths to the hardware shorter._________________ Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail |
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AndrewKorn
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 30-Jul-2003 22:53:54
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Member |
Joined: 9-Mar-2003 Posts: 57
From: Unknown | | |
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Herewegoagain wrote:
I cannot understand how the rest of you guys remember which is Thomas and which is Hans-Jörg. I just get confused. |
Actually the whole twins thing isn't strictly true, it's just a cover story they tell people. Thomas is the product of a Commodore64 sprite multiplexing routine Hans-Jörg wrote that accidentally interacted with a Star-Trek style space/time anomaly and multiplexed its author.
When Hyperion start running the code on a C-One, it's hoped that the 'plexer will be able to run at 4-6 Friedens per frame, speeding up the development time of OS4 considerably.
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herewegoagain
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Re: Question for hyperion regarding Nova Posted on 30-Jul-2003 23:31:14
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Elite Member |
Joined: 8-Jan-2003 Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC | | |
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When Hyperion start running the code on a C-One, it's hoped that the 'plexer will be able to run at 4-6 Friedens per frame, speeding up the development time of OS4 considerably. |
Well bring on the C-One's then.... let's get those multi-friedens going. |
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