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/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
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PosterThread
Forcie-NatamiTeam 
Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 10:29:39
#1 ]
New Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2010
Posts: 8
From: Unknown

Dave Haynie, former chief engineer at Commodore and designer of a lot of classic Amiga chips, recently expressed his views on the Natami Project and the X1000 on Amiga.org. I thought it might be interesting for Amigans so I cross-posted it here:

Quote:
Actually, of all the recent hardware things I've seen in the post-Amiga world, this is the only one I see as being of much value. Or, in my usual terms, "It's cool". For one, you can claim real Amiga cred there -- doing things the Amiga way. You're not just a PC with a PowerPC CPU and some VGA chip trying to make the claim of being an Amiga. I was a little skeptical when I first heard about it, but I'm totally convinced at this point: if you want a new Amiga, this is the true way. It's also sustainable... you can make as many of these as there's demand for. If this X1000 thing was the second coming of the A1000 (it's not, and honestly, not that interesting), it has a built-in limit, since the CPU is already discontinued. And add to that the FPGA basis... there's some serious hacking potential there, I think. Particularly if they're not full yet This isn't going to replace everyone's need for a fast PC, but then again, running original AmigaOS, you don't really need to be. As long as the cost stays in reach of the hobbyist, this could do well.


http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=631463#post631463

This is very encouraging for the Natami Team! I share his views completely :)

Last edited by Forcie-NatamiTeam on 14-Apr-2011 at 10:30 AM.

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      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-14-Apr-2011 10:39:11
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Akiko14-Apr-2011 10:44:30
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon14-Apr-2011 10:49:36
                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor14-Apr-2011 11:38:23
                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-14-Apr-2011 11:43:03
                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000TiredofLife14-Apr-2011 11:52:48
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-14-Apr-2011 12:13:31
      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Fransexy14-Apr-2011 11:50:59
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-14-Apr-2011 12:13:13
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh14-Apr-2011 13:38:55
                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-14-Apr-2011 13:50:09
                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X100014-Apr-2011 14:38:39
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X100014-Apr-2011 12:32:21
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-14-Apr-2011 12:41:38
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Varthall14-Apr-2011 12:42:03
                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X100014-Apr-2011 14:19:12
                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Varthall14-Apr-2011 15:24:04
                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X100014-Apr-2011 15:30:49
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Varthall14-Apr-2011 16:04:52
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X100014-Apr-2011 16:37:43
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Varthall15-Apr-2011 4:50:39
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X100015-Apr-2011 9:47:49
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi15-Apr-2011 11:14:01
                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Mechanic14-Apr-2011 15:09:04
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles14-Apr-2011 12:37:41
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000hazydave16-Apr-2011 6:53:09
                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000NutsAboutAmiga16-Apr-2011 15:18:06
                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000hazydave16-Apr-2011 15:40:23
                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong17-Apr-2011 11:57:13
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi17-Apr-2011 12:11:12
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong17-Apr-2011 12:52:00
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66017-Apr-2011 12:59:49
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 13:09:07
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66017-Apr-2011 14:02:01
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Caveman17-Apr-2011 14:04:09
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66017-Apr-2011 14:09:06
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Caveman17-Apr-2011 14:23:08
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor17-Apr-2011 14:31:22
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Caveman17-Apr-2011 14:36:10
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor17-Apr-2011 14:40:13
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66017-Apr-2011 14:44:27
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Amigo117-Apr-2011 16:00:56
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 14:15:25
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor17-Apr-2011 14:29:55
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 14:31:57
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor17-Apr-2011 14:37:33
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Caveman17-Apr-2011 14:40:14
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor17-Apr-2011 14:46:18
                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Caveman17-Apr-2011 15:02:41
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66017-Apr-2011 14:35:20
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 14:50:28
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66017-Apr-2011 14:55:36
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 15:24:01
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66017-Apr-2011 15:46:51
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66017-Apr-2011 16:00:23
                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 17:09:55
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko17-Apr-2011 13:04:52
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi17-Apr-2011 13:12:34
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000minator17-Apr-2011 12:56:38
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko17-Apr-2011 12:59:12
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong17-Apr-2011 13:18:47
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66017-Apr-2011 13:21:50
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon17-Apr-2011 13:23:19
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Caveman17-Apr-2011 13:31:34
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 13:39:48
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko17-Apr-2011 13:47:35
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong17-Apr-2011 14:31:42
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon17-Apr-2011 14:38:02
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi17-Apr-2011 14:41:38
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon17-Apr-2011 14:43:23
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor17-Apr-2011 14:41:50
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon17-Apr-2011 14:44:36
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor17-Apr-2011 14:47:20
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon17-Apr-2011 14:56:05
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong17-Apr-2011 14:54:41
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi17-Apr-2011 15:07:02
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eliyahu17-Apr-2011 15:18:08
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi17-Apr-2011 15:23:57
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor17-Apr-2011 15:27:00
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi17-Apr-2011 15:28:22
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Stephen_Robinson17-Apr-2011 19:42:36
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eliyahu17-Apr-2011 15:30:21
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000jas_mc17-Apr-2011 15:56:26
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Amigo117-Apr-2011 16:16:04
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000SinanG17-Apr-2011 17:03:02
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong17-Apr-2011 15:19:36
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko17-Apr-2011 20:11:59
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong18-Apr-2011 4:27:21
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko18-Apr-2011 9:20:10
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number617-Apr-2011 15:15:20
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi17-Apr-2011 15:17:29
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number617-Apr-2011 15:28:58
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000T-J17-Apr-2011 15:44:46
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number617-Apr-2011 15:50:23
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000hazydave18-Apr-2011 2:52:01
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong18-Apr-2011 4:53:07
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi18-Apr-2011 8:07:32
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000asymetrix18-Apr-2011 8:26:31
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 8:32:17
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX18-Apr-2011 9:30:58
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Jupp318-Apr-2011 12:09:00
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Amigo118-Apr-2011 13:03:19
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-pekr-18-Apr-2011 9:08:02
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 9:13:25
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-pekr-18-Apr-2011 9:31:14
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 9:39:59
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon18-Apr-2011 9:46:22
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 9:51:06
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh18-Apr-2011 9:57:27
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Leo18-Apr-2011 11:40:28
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Jupp318-Apr-2011 13:09:34
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Leo18-Apr-2011 13:20:45
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000OlafS2518-Apr-2011 13:23:02
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-pekr-18-Apr-2011 11:41:22
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 12:10:11
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Cool_amigaN18-Apr-2011 13:04:25
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Jupp318-Apr-2011 9:22:36
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer21-Apr-2011 4:02:37
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko18-Apr-2011 9:12:46
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko18-Apr-2011 9:15:09
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 9:35:10
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi18-Apr-2011 9:55:41
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 10:00:02
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000CodeSmith18-Apr-2011 10:13:43
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000CodeSmith18-Apr-2011 10:04:47
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 10:09:51
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000CodeSmith18-Apr-2011 10:15:31
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Amigo118-Apr-2011 9:22:07
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh18-Apr-2011 8:16:07
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong18-Apr-2011 9:22:13
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX18-Apr-2011 9:36:30
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000A120018-Apr-2011 10:45:03
                                                      Performance BattleDAX18-Apr-2011 11:03:50
                                                          Re: Performance Battlecheesegrate18-Apr-2011 11:12:15
                                                              Re: Performance BattleKingKong18-Apr-2011 12:09:27
                                                                  Re: Performance Battlecheesegrate18-Apr-2011 12:33:37
                                                                      Re: Performance BattleKingKong18-Apr-2011 13:03:17
                                                                          Re: Performance Battleopi18-Apr-2011 13:07:31
                                                                              Re: Performance Battlenumber618-Apr-2011 13:22:53
                                                                              Re: Performance Battle18-Apr-2011 13:24:26
                                                                                  Re: Performance BattleOlafS2518-Apr-2011 13:28:36
                                                                                  Re: Performance Battleopi18-Apr-2011 13:29:42
                                                                                      Re: Performance Battlecheesegrate18-Apr-2011 13:39:25
                                                                                  Re: Performance BattleKingKong18-Apr-2011 14:17:22
                                                                          Re: Performance BattleArko18-Apr-2011 15:32:55
                                                                  Re: Performance Battleopi18-Apr-2011 12:41:16
                                                                      Re: Performance Battlecheesegrate18-Apr-2011 12:49:51
                                                              Re: Performance BattleTheDungeonDelver18-Apr-2011 15:12:19
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh18-Apr-2011 9:42:12
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000hotrod18-Apr-2011 11:00:48
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Jupp318-Apr-2011 13:00:23
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000OlafS2518-Apr-2011 9:27:09
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh18-Apr-2011 9:52:49
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000OlafS2518-Apr-2011 10:05:32
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Mechanic18-Apr-2011 11:54:48
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer19-Apr-2011 2:02:47
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko20-Apr-2011 21:21:40
                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor20-Apr-2011 22:19:22
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh14-Apr-2011 13:27:02
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi14-Apr-2011 14:34:39
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec14-Apr-2011 15:38:16
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000hazydave16-Apr-2011 6:16:58
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Leo16-Apr-2011 9:45:26
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Benji16-Apr-2011 16:34:27
                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000amigang16-Apr-2011 17:43:50
                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000TrevorDick16-Apr-2011 17:55:11
                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-16-Apr-2011 19:32:55
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon16-Apr-2011 19:44:12
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000TrevorDick16-Apr-2011 20:06:04
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon16-Apr-2011 20:24:50
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec16-Apr-2011 23:33:22
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Mechanic16-Apr-2011 23:45:40
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec16-Apr-2011 23:50:07
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rob17-Apr-2011 0:29:34
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi17-Apr-2011 7:22:27
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000drHirudo17-Apr-2011 7:55:36
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Wizzard_o17-Apr-2011 8:32:50
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Samwel17-Apr-2011 9:05:41
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000cheesegrate17-Apr-2011 9:44:34
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000CodeSmith17-Apr-2011 9:54:43
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX17-Apr-2011 10:16:59
                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 10:26:12
                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX17-Apr-2011 10:37:28
                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 10:51:16
                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX17-Apr-2011 11:12:40
                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 11:27:12
                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX17-Apr-2011 12:28:00
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000hazydave17-Apr-2011 22:01:01
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 9:58:12
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000CodeSmith17-Apr-2011 10:07:57
                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 10:28:55
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000drHirudo17-Apr-2011 10:07:03
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                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh17-Apr-2011 8:47:12
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh17-Apr-2011 7:11:38
                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer16-Apr-2011 20:54:45
                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66017-Apr-2011 1:06:41
                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles17-Apr-2011 13:10:44
                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles17-Apr-2011 17:54:43
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rob17-Apr-2011 18:15:03
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                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles17-Apr-2011 21:11:28
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rob17-Apr-2011 23:18:12
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000minator18-Apr-2011 0:04:59
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000woon17-Apr-2011 19:11:10
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number617-Apr-2011 19:16:15
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh17-Apr-2011 21:46:43
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eliyahu17-Apr-2011 23:38:02
                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000hazydave17-Apr-2011 19:19:23
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor17-Apr-2011 20:07:49
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 20:44:49
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000AmiDelf217-Apr-2011 20:56:56
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                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000TrevorDick17-Apr-2011 21:37:05
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec17-Apr-2011 21:46:23
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor17-Apr-2011 21:54:11
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                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 6:19:47
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec18-Apr-2011 7:05:58
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rob18-Apr-2011 7:09:27
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000serk11818-Apr-2011 16:09:40
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 7:16:25
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number617-Apr-2011 21:54:27
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000TrevorDick17-Apr-2011 22:40:36
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000wawa17-Apr-2011 22:18:39
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000sundown17-Apr-2011 23:00:39
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000billt18-Apr-2011 4:03:55
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000COBRA17-Apr-2011 23:50:41
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon17-Apr-2011 23:59:33
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000COBRA18-Apr-2011 0:08:29
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon18-Apr-2011 0:14:33
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000COBRA18-Apr-2011 0:20:41
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles18-Apr-2011 2:31:32
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000mausle18-Apr-2011 15:32:26
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh18-Apr-2011 18:01:02
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000_ThEcRoW18-Apr-2011 18:26:29
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number618-Apr-2011 18:33:23
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000_ThEcRoW19-Apr-2011 1:02:45
                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number619-Apr-2011 13:31:33
                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000polka.19-Apr-2011 16:12:45
                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number619-Apr-2011 16:18:23
                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000redrumloa21-Apr-2011 0:46:20
                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000A120021-Apr-2011 1:20:20
                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor21-Apr-2011 6:24:15
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000mausle18-Apr-2011 21:06:04
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000COBRA19-Apr-2011 0:40:35
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000mausle19-Apr-2011 6:55:42
                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh16-Apr-2011 18:03:29
                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000amigang16-Apr-2011 20:36:32
      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000cheesegrate14-Apr-2011 12:52:17
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh14-Apr-2011 13:30:07
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor14-Apr-2011 13:38:33
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec14-Apr-2011 15:40:41
      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000billt14-Apr-2011 15:38:42
      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000NutsAboutAmiga14-Apr-2011 16:10:55
      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000jingof14-Apr-2011 17:21:00
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000cheesegrate14-Apr-2011 17:47:28
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000jas_mc14-Apr-2011 18:01:37
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000NutsAboutAmiga14-Apr-2011 18:12:15
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Samurai_Crow14-Apr-2011 18:20:26
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Slayer21-Apr-2011 4:26:30
      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000ikir14-Apr-2011 19:18:32
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-14-Apr-2011 21:08:52
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000cheesegrate15-Apr-2011 4:40:45
                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-15-Apr-2011 8:36:57
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000NutsAboutAmiga15-Apr-2011 5:49:32
                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-15-Apr-2011 8:41:10
                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000cha05e9015-Apr-2011 9:24:43
                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX15-Apr-2011 9:31:29
                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-15-Apr-2011 11:11:35
                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000OlafS2515-Apr-2011 11:59:44
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-15-Apr-2011 12:13:07
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000OlafS2515-Apr-2011 12:24:24
                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX15-Apr-2011 12:29:16
                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000OlafS2515-Apr-2011 12:44:07
                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Fransexy15-Apr-2011 12:52:05
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000OlafS2515-Apr-2011 12:58:21
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon15-Apr-2011 13:24:16
                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX15-Apr-2011 13:35:55
                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X100015-Apr-2011 14:45:41
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number615-Apr-2011 14:53:55
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Amigo115-Apr-2011 15:27:54
                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000cheesegrate15-Apr-2011 16:03:10
                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX15-Apr-2011 16:08:33
                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Amigo115-Apr-2011 18:07:09
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X100015-Apr-2011 17:33:22
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000vidarh15-Apr-2011 15:59:31
                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-15-Apr-2011 18:04:26
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon15-Apr-2011 18:09:36
                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Caveman15-Apr-2011 18:16:15
                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000wawa15-Apr-2011 18:27:54
                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Fransexy15-Apr-2011 18:44:12
                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000WolfToTheMoon15-Apr-2011 19:32:11
                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Tomppeli15-Apr-2011 20:16:05
                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000hotrod15-Apr-2011 20:17:45
                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-15-Apr-2011 20:13:44
                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000cha05e9015-Apr-2011 20:33:51
                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000BigD15-Apr-2011 21:00:00
                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000NutsAboutAmiga15-Apr-2011 21:46:24
                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX15-Apr-2011 21:49:07
                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000NutsAboutAmiga15-Apr-2011 21:58:11
                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX15-Apr-2011 21:59:41
                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000jas_mc15-Apr-2011 22:27:53
                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000BigD15-Apr-2011 22:47:55
                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000cha05e9015-Apr-2011 22:43:00
                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000BigD15-Apr-2011 22:54:36
                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000wawa16-Apr-2011 0:24:55
                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000COBRA16-Apr-2011 4:17:46
                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000hotrod16-Apr-2011 4:39:42
                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000COBRA16-Apr-2011 5:14:40
                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000ferrels16-Apr-2011 17:30:15
                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000wawa16-Apr-2011 17:36:04
                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000COBRA16-Apr-2011 22:25:36
                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000ferrels17-Apr-2011 1:39:46
                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000BobW17-Apr-2011 3:23:34
                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000COBRA17-Apr-2011 12:02:06
                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000ferrels18-Apr-2011 2:04:34
                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000COBRA18-Apr-2011 3:20:58
                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000ferrels18-Apr-2011 14:55:32
                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000COBRA19-Apr-2011 0:32:49
                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 6:34:41
                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec18-Apr-2011 7:08:55
                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Amigo118-Apr-2011 7:16:23
                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000ferrels18-Apr-2011 14:34:21
                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Mechanic18-Apr-2011 14:48:26
                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000ferrels18-Apr-2011 15:02:18
                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000OlafS2518-Apr-2011 15:10:06
                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000ferrels18-Apr-2011 15:17:35
                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000OlafS2518-Apr-2011 15:23:11
                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X100018-Apr-2011 15:27:06
                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX18-Apr-2011 14:52:01
                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000ferrels18-Apr-2011 15:00:16
                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX18-Apr-2011 15:08:08
                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000ferrels18-Apr-2011 15:24:01
                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX18-Apr-2011 15:41:45
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko18-Apr-2011 15:58:36
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX18-Apr-2011 16:31:24
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles18-Apr-2011 16:53:33
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX18-Apr-2011 17:06:57
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec18-Apr-2011 21:58:30
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 22:01:11
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec18-Apr-2011 22:03:24
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Caveman18-Apr-2011 22:14:13
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec18-Apr-2011 22:16:51
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 22:28:31
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi18-Apr-2011 22:29:42
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Caveman18-Apr-2011 22:29:48
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec18-Apr-2011 22:30:21
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Kremlar18-Apr-2011 23:36:15
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor19-Apr-2011 6:28:15
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi18-Apr-2011 22:14:54
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec18-Apr-2011 22:17:41
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 22:22:06
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number618-Apr-2011 22:24:36
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec18-Apr-2011 22:28:57
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rudei19-Apr-2011 7:15:12
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec19-Apr-2011 8:36:45
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-pekr-19-Apr-2011 9:20:10
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong19-Apr-2011 9:38:23
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec19-Apr-2011 9:50:26
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Fransexy19-Apr-2011 10:02:15
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor19-Apr-2011 10:03:20
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec19-Apr-2011 10:05:57
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor19-Apr-2011 10:12:06
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec19-Apr-2011 10:14:55
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rob19-Apr-2011 17:53:11
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec19-Apr-2011 19:58:02
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number619-Apr-2011 20:05:09
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX19-Apr-2011 10:24:08
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec19-Apr-2011 10:31:42
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor19-Apr-2011 10:38:51
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX19-Apr-2011 10:50:37
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec19-Apr-2011 11:01:34
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX19-Apr-2011 11:38:50
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66019-Apr-2011 11:55:55
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000hazydave21-Apr-2011 7:02:10
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi19-Apr-2011 11:58:36
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Tomppeli19-Apr-2011 12:14:28
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi19-Apr-2011 12:20:15
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor19-Apr-2011 12:20:42
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi19-Apr-2011 12:31:24
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor19-Apr-2011 12:43:43
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi19-Apr-2011 13:00:28
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor19-Apr-2011 13:06:49
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi19-Apr-2011 13:13:29
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX19-Apr-2011 13:21:32
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Amigo119-Apr-2011 12:30:02
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Fab19-Apr-2011 13:48:40
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Jupp319-Apr-2011 20:07:59
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000OlafS2519-Apr-2011 11:46:32
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer20-Apr-2011 1:59:58
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX20-Apr-2011 9:54:44
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer21-Apr-2011 3:46:43
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000bison20-Apr-2011 1:09:04
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rassilon19-Apr-2011 10:47:49
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX19-Apr-2011 10:53:39
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi19-Apr-2011 11:20:55
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rassilon19-Apr-2011 11:26:36
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi19-Apr-2011 11:31:06
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko19-Apr-2011 13:15:43
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor19-Apr-2011 13:26:29
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rassilon19-Apr-2011 14:34:10
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number619-Apr-2011 14:43:25
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Jupp319-Apr-2011 14:54:04
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rassilon19-Apr-2011 15:02:20
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles19-Apr-2011 15:13:43
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rassilon20-Apr-2011 6:28:53
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles20-Apr-2011 11:05:09
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rassilon20-Apr-2011 11:32:36
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles20-Apr-2011 11:41:36
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor20-Apr-2011 12:28:06
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rassilon20-Apr-2011 12:52:46
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Mechanic20-Apr-2011 12:27:09
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000ferrels19-Apr-2011 16:31:01
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor19-Apr-2011 17:50:59
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000ferrels19-Apr-2011 20:15:55
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000NutsAboutAmiga19-Apr-2011 20:48:06
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000cha05e9019-Apr-2011 21:20:24
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000-Sam-19-Apr-2011 23:32:38
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000wawa20-Apr-2011 0:07:31
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Amigo120-Apr-2011 5:06:39
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rassilon20-Apr-2011 6:32:45
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Antique19-Apr-2011 16:49:23
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rassilon20-Apr-2011 6:26:37
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Mechanic19-Apr-2011 14:57:54
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rudei19-Apr-2011 12:51:23
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec19-Apr-2011 13:02:10
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Rudei19-Apr-2011 15:27:12
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66019-Apr-2011 15:54:24
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec19-Apr-2011 17:58:04
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Mechanic19-Apr-2011 18:20:58
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000eXec19-Apr-2011 19:55:17
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles18-Apr-2011 16:09:21
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Mr_DBUG18-Apr-2011 16:11:53
                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 17:41:24
                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX18-Apr-2011 18:39:15
                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Kremlar18-Apr-2011 19:20:52
                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000TheDaddy18-Apr-2011 19:26:36
                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 19:36:58
                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer19-Apr-2011 8:21:44
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor19-Apr-2011 9:25:01
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Leo19-Apr-2011 14:10:51
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000serk11819-Apr-2011 14:25:07
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000number619-Apr-2011 14:28:39
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong20-Apr-2011 5:07:54
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Jupp320-Apr-2011 6:04:58
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong20-Apr-2011 6:47:33
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Massi20-Apr-2011 8:34:09
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles20-Apr-2011 11:11:17
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000KingKong20-Apr-2011 11:51:53
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000opi20-Apr-2011 12:05:05
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Spectre66020-Apr-2011 12:30:32
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Jupp320-Apr-2011 13:16:33
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX20-Apr-2011 13:34:34
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Mechanic20-Apr-2011 15:20:48
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                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer21-Apr-2011 3:32:21
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                                                                                                                                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer21-Apr-2011 4:07:51
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000gregthecanuck21-Apr-2011 4:41:41
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor21-Apr-2011 6:20:39
                                                                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko18-Apr-2011 21:40:00
                                                                                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor18-Apr-2011 21:54:45
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                                                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000hazydave16-Apr-2011 9:16:30
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                                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX15-Apr-2011 18:41:38
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                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Lou15-Apr-2011 14:29:40
                                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Cool_amigaN15-Apr-2011 14:13:46
                                                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000cheesegrate15-Apr-2011 14:31:21
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          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles14-Apr-2011 21:03:53
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                      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000hotrod16-Apr-2011 7:35:40
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damocles 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 20-Apr-2011 20:53:37
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@Rassilon

Quote:
I actually tried a distro earlier this year. Can't recall its name. It was good just not all there yet in my opinion.


There is the standard ISO build, and then there are two different distros for AROS so your mileage may very between those three ISOs on personal likes and dislikes.

Quote:
The question you have to ask yourself (or not - take it or leave it) is why do any of use use the computer systems we do? For many it is a matter of need (why I jumped to Macs) but for others it is a matter of affinity - they like using OS4 / MorphOS / AROS.


Whatever floats your boat is the one you should be using. My point is the idea that OS4 is, all by itself, the only one that can compete with major OSs is not viable on many levels. That's completely ignoring AROS (native or hosted) on x86/x86/_64/PPC/ARM Linux hosted and MOS on used Macs. IMO, any government would chose FOSS over closed sourced just to escape from being entangled in future IP law suits.

Quote:
It is then only natural that they want the best for and from their systems - which then in this case is presented in the form of the X1000 and OS4.


I'm all for OS4 staying PPC for all of eternity. I do wonder what would happen to the PPC fanboys if OS4 was ported to x86 with eventual stagnation and withering of PPC software development being a forgone conclusion. Not that I would want that to happen, of course.


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Mechanic 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 20-Apr-2011 22:16:09
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@eXec
Quote:

eXec wrote:
@Mechanic

And how do computers work? ;)




Magic!

Inside those mostly black squarish things stuck on the motherboard is nothing
but Smoke and a Mirror.

Crack the mirror, or let the smoke out and the magic is gone.


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Mechanic 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 20-Apr-2011 22:34:43
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@thread

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"

Here - LINK - is something most interesting. Especially
due to some of the comments made regarding ppc.

It's a good read, no matter which side of the fence you're on.

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T-J 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 20-Apr-2011 22:38:32
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@Mechanic

Quote:
Magic


Best post so far.

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bison 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 3:42:50
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A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, this thread was about something Dave Haynie said about Natami and the X1000. Just sayin'

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gregthecanuck 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 4:43:41
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Quote:

@Hammer
Current Intel Xeon E7-8870 (10 SB core) @ 2.4Ghz has 130 watts TDP i.e. ~13 watts for each SB core.


That E7-8870 on Intel's current price list will set you back a cool $4,616.00.

Also of note is that Intel has barely changed their pricing for ages. With AMD not really competing in the mid-to-high-end segments like they once did the Intel pricing has remained stagnant. No surprise Intel's profits are up lately, even with PC shipments down.



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hazydave 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 5:43:19
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Quote:

More importantly, the MorphOS guys have always vehemently denied that they stole any code.


The MorphOS project came from Phase V... after Phase V ended, former employees started up BPlan (eg, "Plan B"), who eventually merged with a couple folks from Thendic France to form Genesi.

Now, I do not have direct personal knowledge of all MorphOS sources. But back when Phase 5 was working on their "C Exec" and other things, starting to re-create AmigaOS themselves in the mid-1990s, I was working with Andy Finkel at Amiga Technologies. The Phase 5 guys were really after AT to use tome of their stuff (and pay them, natch). Andy did a code review of the C Kernel, and found it was copied from AmigaOS source code. In fact, even the comments were copied, assembler to C.

Maybe MorphOS is clean, maybe not. Maybe no one actually knows. But that's such a transgression, I wouldn't trust anyone involved in Phase 5, or any code that can be traced back to Phase 5.

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hazydave 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 5:54:30
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@itix
They still don't understand clean room development. If you have seen the Amiga source code, you cannot produce a legally separate work-alike. So any copied comments are absolute proof that the code is dirty. And they're not rejecting my claim, if you go back into those linked documents, that the comments were copied.

Point in fact -- I just don't care about MorphOS. It's not AmigaOS, it might as well be Windows for all I care. If you like it, I'm pretty certain at this point no new legal entanglements are going to happen. If the MorphOS people would like to swear in public that not a line of code or comment is copied from the AmigaOS sources or derived from the Phase 5 code (fruits of a poisonous tree, in legal terms), I will not mention MorphOS again.

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hazydave 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 6:05:33
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Quote:

COBRA wrote:
@WolfToTheMoon
Quote:
x86 on commodity hardware would bring in more hobbyists and more devs


Would it? Why would someone even remotely consider using and developing for an OS on their x86 hardware that has no memory protection, supports only a handful of old gfx cards with limited or no 3D support with old outdated APIs and hardly any software of interest and it even costs quite a bit of money around 100 EUR, when there are plenty of alternatives with far more capability, many of which are free?


It would, simply because anyone who wanted to run AmigaOS could do so on a $200 piece of hardware. And perhaps, it AmigaOS was actually selling to anyone in non-trivial numbers, TPTB might have a little money for updating it to work on actual 1990s-vintage hardware.

In short, precisely the same reasons exist to run AmigaOS on x86 or ARM as any other platform, but the barrier to entry is significantly less.

Quote:
AROS is available for x86 and it doesn't look like it's winning over the PC developer community.

Nothing like this happens overnight. And the very fact there have been so many different Amiga and Amiga-like projects means that many efforts have been repeatedly duplicated. Sure, this happens... BSD vs. Linux, for example.

The fact is, people do run alternative OSs on x86 hardware all the time. There was a time when Linux was smaller than AmigaOS, as a community. Now it's on more machines than Windows. So it is possible for these things to grow. As it stands todays, the AmigaOS community is shrinking... people give up and quit every year. New ones rarely if ever join in and take their place.

MacOS is a religion. That's actually a pretty good thing for Apple.

There is no cheap Mac hardware, it's all overpriced. Ok, maybe if you buy something used and ancient... PPC Macs haven't been made in 6-7 years. And what you get for that expense is MacOS. If you're not interested in MacOS, you don't buy a Mac. If you're doing serious code development, you don't use an ancient computer, either.

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hazydave 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 6:21:52
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Quote:

This CPU was only used in aerospace and military applications

Many of which typically use very underpowered CPUs that have some other figure of merit (rad hardened, for example).

Quote:

we have a few benchmarks VS G5, made by an aerospace company using optimized code which resulted in the PA6T outperforming the G5 by several orders of magnitude (and by extension also x86 CPUs younger than 2004) but I don't mention it because it tells us nothing at all.

I for one would be quite interested in seeing the PA6T performance 100x or more the speed of a PPC970. THAT would be something to brag about. I'm pretty sure an i7 can't claim such performance.

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hazydave 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 6:38:16
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@KingKong

Quote:

Interesting presentations, thanks. These show that the PA6T is very usable for military, industry, office and of cource home-PC.


I'm somewhat in agreement. As I mention, even the QorIQ chips are ever-so-slightly faster per core than a modern ARM (at least until the A15 is out), and that may fast enough for some kinds of home uses. It's not a high end gamer's CPU, and it's not for people doing the modern version of the Amiga's classic strengths in multimedia work. But just look at home much computing folks are getting done on iPads and other tablets these days.

Quote:

How much faster are current CPU? AmigaOS can easily regain factor 2-3 and even more in comparison to MSwindows (just guessing, ask the AmigaOS-profis).


Not really, when you actually need the performance. But some of it's just psychological, anyway. Like your desktop performance. Windows has some amazingly bad ideas still in it, which do tend to make things clunky. I have a Tegra 2 tablet running Android, and it's plenty fast for the stuff it's doing, based on dual 1GHz ARM Cortex A9s. The average Intel Atom is about as fast as the A9. Most netbooks are running 1.6GHz or faster, and at least some are dual core. And yet, they crawl under many Windows applications. And much of that crawling is just user impatience for the OS getting around to them.

Intuition does all kinds of magic to speed up the user interface in very effective ways.

Usability, clear design, endurance (works still in 10 years), security/stability, ... such things are much more important than some percent extra performance. One single bug (in hardware or software) can null the best performance.

Quote:

BTW: be careful of too small structures (65 nm is fine, below 45 nm it may become too risky) - only guessing ... what does hazydave think?


I think the move to 32 and 28nm is going along just dandy. It's not quite to the many fabless companies yet, but Intel and AMD have been shipping in 32nm; Intel since late 2009 I think.

They've had issues with leakage current becoming dominant at some Leff nodes, but so far there have been ways around this and other limits: copper interconnects, stressed silicon, more exotic substrates. And the fact is, at each new node, you have fewer foundries. Commodore was left behind in the 80s due to the costs of new IC process development. Then it was only large companies hitting the new nodes, and now it's either giants, like Intel or Samsung (#1 and #2), or groups of companies working together.

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hazydave 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 6:48:58
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@-pekr-
Quote:

-pekr- wrote:
The problem with the long wait for the new HW is always the same - you are trumped by the next release of the "competition". X1000 has XMOS. I wonder, how will it compare to - Tabula :

http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/19/tabula-scores-108-million-to-bring-cheap-programmable-chips-to/


The XMOS chip is just a network of little CPUs... it's not this wonder chip some people think it is. It may have some interesting applications in embedded control. Maybe. I did a robot architecture once that used lots of small CPUs to "cook" things like sensor data. But that was only practical because these particular CPUs (Cypress PSoC) had programmable macroblocks in both analog and digital, which, while not FPGA-like, definitely let you do things that seems to be much like custom hardware (for example, you could do SPI, UART, or I2C in digital, a DAC, an ADC, an amplifier or comparator, etc. in the same analog blocks).

The Tabula looks, at least from the EE Times article I read, to be an actual FPGA, but with some cycle-by-cycle switching of the presumably SRAM-based control array. That would, in theory, let you very quickly sub one large block for another.

For example, take a modern radio . You often have Wifi and Bluetooth in the same device, and the radio's only half duplex (new ones are MIMO, but still half duplex). So you have BT-TX, BT-RX, Wifi-TX, and Wifi-RX blocks in the design, but only one is actually doing real work at any given time. So this would let you design the radio using only 1/4 the logic blocks, normal amount of SRAM or Flash. But the memory part is cheap in an FPGA, it's the logic blocks that you're paying for.

Anyway, that's my take on it... sounds fairly cool.

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hazydave 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 6:58:39
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@Rassilon
Quote:

Rassilon wrote:
What you said about RAW image loading, h264 decoding etc is very true, however PCs circumvent some of those issues with GPU hardware assists. But as you say a G3 class CPU won't cut it.


Actually, GPU acceleration can be a very big thing. I have a dual core, Core2 laptop at 2.4GHz, which can just barely play back standard 1080/60i video... forget 1080/60p. Even on my six core AMD desktop, 1080/60p playback can go as high as 60% of all CPU, depending on which player you use.

But run a player that uses GPU acceleration (even Windows Media Player, in Windows 7), and the CPU load drops down to about 6%. That's via the DXVA 2.0 API, which isn't general purpose computing like OpenCL, but dedicated specifically to video rendering. And this is with a nVidia 8800GT GPU... hardly the latest thing.

This is also why I loved the idea of AmigaOS for PPC on the PS3. The PS3 CPU is no match for even a cheapish desktop (3.2GHz, but very simple design for a PPC), but between the GPU and the SPEs, the PS3 can decode multiple HD streams.

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itix 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 7:12:54
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@hazydave

Quote:

But back when Phase 5 was working on their "C Exec" and other things, starting to re-create AmigaOS themselves in the mid-1990s, I was working with Andy Finkel at Amiga Technologies. The Phase 5 guys were really after AT to use tome of their stuff (and pay them, natch).


I can relate to your angryness. To quote famous Benjamin Hermans, if you paid 5 million dollars for something, would you accept other people running off with your IP without putting up a fight?

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hazydave 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 7:16:40
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Quote:

Spectre660 wrote:
Everyone relax and look at the world wide OS market share numbers.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8


Interesting, but I'm skeptical. For example, what's the aggregation? Well... I asked it to give me "this year". And as I kind of expected, it gave me just over 5% for MacOS, which is more or less where Apple's been hovering, world-wide, for some time now.

But they put iOS at 1.95%. Now, Apple sells 3-5 million Macs in a quarter, depending on the quarter. 4Q2010, they sold 14 million iPhones... that's more than all the Macs they sold in 2010, in just one quarter. And even more Android devices were sold, worldwide, in 4Q2010. Android also outsold iPhone first two quarters of 2010.

So really, there's something not quite kosher about this chart, if the time frame function actually works.

(Fixed a quote that messed up the layout /tomazkid )

Last edited by tomazkid on 22-Apr-2011 at 10:52 PM.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 7:44:59
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@Hammer

Quote:

E7-8870 was launched in the month April i.e. in Q2 2011 not Q1 2011 results.

I wasn't commenting on the E7-8870 and its relation to Qx results. I was simply pointing out that Intel hasn't been sharpening its pencil at all recently. No decent competition = high gross margins.

But that is an amazing chip - 30MB cache! Getting close to Power7 scale oomph.

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DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 8:54:45
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@hazydave
Of course, I don't think the PA6T is a monstrous CPU by todays standards (although considering AmigaOS runs quite well on my weak PPC unit, I would guess it will rock on that thing) but BEFORE you invest the needed capital for high volume production (low prices+good performance included) you need something appealing to put there, a significantly better AmigaOS.
When they decided to do the X1000 they sampled CPUs and consulted with all AOS developers and beta testers (many of which are also developers of AOS software) and considering their roadmap (what they want to add to AOS in the next major commercial release) the PA6T was the best option for a PPC machine whose main intent is to provide a competent platform for developers to work on, while still resembling as close as possible future CPUs.
Other options were either single core and low clocked, or were 32-bit only with no altivec.
The second target user for the machine (since they are making this expensive low volume computer) will be the AOS4 power user or enthusiast, BUT selling it to Average Joe was never the idea because AOS in the end cannot appeal even to ex-amigans if it doesn't grow in many aspects.

If this project goes well (they sell the finite number of machines in a not so long period and evolve AmigaOS as intended) the next project will take place.

How can the next project be both powerful and decently priced?

last year intel announced they will enter the high-end side of the embedded market with their i5 and i7 CPUs actually bringing desktop performance in LINK

To this announcement 6 months later FreeScale responded with THIS

They might make up to 8 cores variants and judjing from the past/roadmap the maximum Mhz count will rise yet again (probably up to 3.0Ghz), not to mention a new e6000 core might be used (we already know the Altivec unit is a new and improved one).

OpenCL is a future possibility too for Amiga, and coupled with a CPU of the above class (which might provide desktop perfomance) the lack of performance might not be a problem any longer.

As for the price the harsh competition with intel is expected to bring prices down. Free-scale is already cheaper than PA6T anyway (although at the moment they don't offer a CPU that is both 64-Bit and altivec equipped), but it'll get even cheaper hopefully, this time offering CPUs far more powerful than PA6T (and thus making the possibility of a more powerful and less priced X2000 a reality).

Due to piracy Hyperion will never sell the os for generic X86 mobos anyway, and they would go the Apple route, with worse prices of course, so x86 will never mean "cheap" for AmigaOS.
It would only mean another 3 years of wait for an "X86 AOS" that's exactly as we see it today.

Hyperion will better use its development time for modernizing the OS, an "Apple priced" (1295 including LCD monitor maybe?) and powerful PPC machine can be made out of future FreeScale chips. Leave the 5020 or earlier models alone, they are not interesting for us, what will be interesting to see will be the new ones that will come out from the battle with intel.
Add OpenCL to the mix and we're set (join back in then!! ).

Last edited by DAX on 21-Apr-2011 at 09:11 AM.
Last edited by DAX on 21-Apr-2011 at 09:05 AM.

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      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer21-Apr-2011 10:09:52


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DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 10:35:27
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@Hammer
A QorlQ P60x0 + , say, a Radeon HD 5870, would be several orders of magnitude faster than an Xbox 360, and I'm sure you've seen how good Gears of War 2 looks there. THE Problem is, even though you could probably run gears even on the X1000+HD4890 (let alone a potential successor) the chances for such a complex game to surface on Amiga are nill.
We'll be lucky to get Doom3 and by the time an eventual X2000 comes out, we might (maybe) hope for Quake4, which means that the Amigas available will be several orders of magnitude faster than what's needed for those.

If you are a follower and user of the bleeding edge advancements (as I know you are) than you have no place for MacOS or Linux either (the only option for you is Microsoft Windows), because when you have such gear you also need software that fully uses it.
MacOS and Linux don't have games using the latest DX11 tech, and professional software that uses certain new features is only available for Windows.
Take the latest Composite from Autodesk, it's the only software using AVX for example.

However there is still people that wants to use Amiga, Macs or Linux, so I hope you are not trying to convince all the above crowds to scrap their favorite platforms and move to Windows, it would be a waste of time...

Last edited by DAX on 21-Apr-2011 at 10:37 AM.

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      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer21-Apr-2011 10:51:53
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX21-Apr-2011 11:07:42
      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Karlos21-Apr-2011 20:16:34
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX21-Apr-2011 20:23:51
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                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Karlos21-Apr-2011 22:11:15
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                                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer21-Apr-2011 23:26:48
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                          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer21-Apr-2011 23:25:59
                              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Karlos21-Apr-2011 23:39:19
                                  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Hammer21-Apr-2011 23:49:30


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gregthecanuck 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 11:45:47
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@Hammer
Quote:

Quote:

I wasn't commenting on the E7-8870 and its relation to Qx results. I was simply pointing out that Intel hasn't been sharpening its pencil at all recently. No decent competition = high gross margins.

But that is an amazing chip - 30MB cache! Getting close to Power7 scale oomph.

If you read http://techreport.com/discussions.x/20803

"while Atom CPU and chipset revenue climbed by 4% compared to last year"

Q1 2011's gross margin fell to 61% from Q4 2010's 67.5%


60-whatever% margins would be considered high gross margins, would they not? I don't understand the point you are trying to make??

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KingKong 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 12:10:13
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Well, I have said enough - wise people will understand my idea.

Currently the german government is not very quick in doing what I want but mostly I wrote here about "Germany" and thus a privat funded solution is not ruled out. A good company maybe a pretty good start but in the long run I prefer a public or state-owned solution (a company can be bought and buggered).

Luckily a perfect OS (secure, stable, fast, real time capable, ...) is of interest for a company also and some companies can spend millions even easier than some governments. A company which intents to devolop and use AmigaOS must therefore be good (in not using Wintel - if you get my drift). A real good AmigaOS is not in the interest of MS, Apple and maybe even Linux - so beware.

I have some ideas of what may come and this includes AmigaOS as being better and more used than Linux or MS in perhaps only 10 years. Could say a magic word for clue but because I can't be certain I shouldn't (well, I can give you a riddle: "sex - today - yesterday" - hopefully not enough to tell but to prove I was right if I will be right).

All I write is imho, as usual. I myself am also curious if my expectations will become real.

Something to discuss (so you don't need to grumble about the above said):

What are the applications that need real big CPU power?
- video encoding, creating films/animations,
- highly animated 3D games for hires screens,
- and very important for the future: artificial intelligence (ai) as in supercomputers (also to help development) and robots but there you need to have smart ideas, a good OS, secure/reliable/powerefficient chips firstly. A cool vision of independent conscious spaceships can be found in Hinweise und Verbesserungsvorschläge (currently between 28.01.11 and 29.03.11 see keywords: "Superraumschiff", "Supercomputer" - sorry, only in German and only of interest for those who have to think of future decades/centuries).

Joe Average doesn't need this at present and therefore no superfast CPU in his PC.

The future needs good chips and a good OS and AmigaOS can very well evolve with PPC (other CPU will be supported later). It may be very advantageous if developers have to search for smart and efficient solutions because of not so fast (but cheap and low power) chips.

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Tomppeli 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 12:51:47
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Quote:
The MorphOS project came from Phase V... after Phase V ended, former employees started up BPlan (eg, "Plan B"), who eventually merged with a couple folks from Thendic France to form Genesi.

Now, I do not have direct personal knowledge of all MorphOS sources. But back when Phase 5 was working on their "C Exec" and other things, starting to re-create AmigaOS themselves in the mid-1990s, I was working with Andy Finkel at Amiga Technologies. The Phase 5 guys were really after AT to use tome of their stuff (and pay them, natch). Andy did a code review of the C Kernel, and found it was copied from AmigaOS source code. In fact, even the comments were copied, assembler to C.

Maybe MorphOS is clean, maybe not. Maybe no one actually knows. But that's such a transgression, I wouldn't trust anyone involved in Phase 5, or any code that can be traced back to Phase 5.

Maybe the truth is finally coming out of the door.

@itix
If I've understood it correctly you came quite late to MorphOS. Can you swear for all ex-MoprhOS coders ?

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Tomppeli 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 12:57:01
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@DAX

Thanks, wise and good comments from you.

@thread
This thread have been mostly spamming from many individuals. ((Edit:) Before anyone asks I mean with spamming keeping repeating repeating repeating repeating repeating himself/herself from threads to threads and years to years.)

(Edit: Hopefully this post is more clear now.)

Last edited by Tomppeli on 22-Apr-2011 at 08:39 PM.

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      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000DAX21-Apr-2011 14:17:23
      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X100021-Apr-2011 14:33:30
      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko21-Apr-2011 14:43:41


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nimrod7 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 14:41:02
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we went terribly OT, so it's time for me to go further:
i wish A-EON a good luck but i would say the name chosen for the board is a bit risky, cos it suggests a failure (Nemo = 'no-one', 'nobody'... Jules Verne's novels etc. etc.) on the other hand Natami rhymes with "Latami" in polish and "Latami" means 'years' as in "it took years (to be accomplished)" but also Natami rhymes with "Lata mi" = "i don't care" in polish slang = something not important , which has no value (e.g. as a productivity hardware)
and then: SAM means "alone" in polish... then we have a beautiful MorphOS drug connection (dreams, sleeping, morphine) with MAC platform. MAC phonetically means a "poppy" in polish and a few (PPC!) poppy species are used as a source of drugs (e.g. heroine ("synthesized from morphine[sic!]", a derivative of the opium poppy" - thx wikipedia, and of course: opium)
Then, to sum it up, we have a beautfiul AOS4-X1000-MorphOS connection (a quote from the wikipedia "Morpheus" article): 'Little Nemo[sic!] in Slumberland, a comic about a boy's surreal dreams, includes a supporting character named "King Morpheus"'.
My god - what a bundle of symbols! (and i didn't say a word about AROS!!!...)

EDIT: typos.

Last edited by nimrod7 on 21-Apr-2011 at 02:43 PM.

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      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000TrevorDick21-Apr-2011 15:37:54
          Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000T-J21-Apr-2011 15:49:55
              Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Amigo121-Apr-2011 15:59:36
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nimrod7 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 14:44:36
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@Arko

Quote:

Arko wrote:
And A-Eon is a very long time period ....


well, that's obvious

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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 15:31:13
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@itix

Quote:
And still it has nothing to do with MorphOS. It is just some grumpy PCB layout guy who designed some toy computers at Commodore.


Pretty pathetic. After all, you can't expect much from a guy with a Che avatar.

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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 15:50:02
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@Fab

Damn right, this WHOLE situation is pretty pathetic.
Grumpy PCB layout guys who designed some toy computers at Commodore on one side vs. grumpy OS coders/fanbots/whatever who waste their lives with a toy OS on the other.
Pretty cool. Want some popcorn?

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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 15:51:04
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@TrevorDick

Quote:
AEON, EON (both geological terms) A-EON, A-ONE


Too late to avoid the geological reference entirely. Heh.

source

#6

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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 16:44:24
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@TrevorDick

woa! i didn't figure A-EON is an anagram ("poor little nimrod..." http://is.gd/QVYmRy
...but i was referring to NEMO motherboard (which, apart from its Latin meaning, can have its peak: http://is.gd/q3hxM2 ) anyway - let's stick with something eternal: "play it again, SAM": PIAS

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DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 20:41:50
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@Karlos
Cool

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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 21:13:58
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@hazydave

Quote:
MacOS is a religion.

Well, not a very good one — their messiah has a health crisis every other year.

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      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000pavlor21-Apr-2011 21:19:10
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Arko 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 21:46:17
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@itix

Quote:

itix wrote:
@Arko

Quote:

It was a in a code they wanted sell to Amiga Technologies, and Andy Finkel was send to Phase5 to do some code review.


Yes and? Where is the problem?


Don't know if there is a problem, you mentioned the code might be send to Phase5 by Petro and I told you the reason why that code was not send by Petro.

Quote:

But I wouldnt mind if those old people tried to actually make some sense.


Dave was always a hardware guy, building cool hardware is what he likes to do, that's the reason why he likes the Natami. His comments about AOS4 where not very positive too. In a lot of comments he talks about economic decisions this might be the reason why likes the C64 from CUSA. According to his behavior about MorphOS, maybe there where other reasons, he does not give technical reasons, he does not talk about GUI design he just said he doesn't care.

I'm more surprised why he doesn't try to participate in the Minimig project. Today's hardware design technologies with FPGA makes a lot of thing possible for hobbyists, things that where impossible for Haynie as professional hardware developer 20 years ago.

A lot of people that worked on or with the Amiga, left the scene after their projects failed, they don't want to work with the Amiga again because they went to a lot of disappointments after all this fails.

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I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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KingKong 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 22-Apr-2011 4:48:50
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@nimrod7

A positve interpretation of "Nemo" may be that the board is really nobody (in the future there will be intelligent computers with human rights) and the main focus must be set on the evolution of AmigaOS (for which Nemo may be very useful and even be the foundation of somebody).

Do you know that Nimrod was perhaps a very evil person in history? Especially see Rising New One World Order.

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Nimrod 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 22-Apr-2011 7:09:48
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@KingKong

Quote:
Do you know that Nimrod was perhaps a very evil person in history? Especially see Rising New One World Order.


Anybody who refuses to kowtow to the local priest will be recorded in religious texts as evil. How would todays religious fundamentalists in the middle east or the midwest report on Darwin?
/
There is only one true Amiga and it is ** **

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When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

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KingKong 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 22-Apr-2011 7:24:09
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2006
Posts: 95
From: Germany

@cheesegrate

Isn't it curious that Amiga died instead of being developted to a great company?

Well ... it isn't if you know that there (may) exist mighty powers who prevented it.

Why is the Amiga-community split up? Well ... guess why.

(info for newbies: MorphOS Pegasos)

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      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000Arko22-Apr-2011 8:59:51
      Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000damocles22-Apr-2011 11:39:28


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KingKong 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 22-Apr-2011 7:29:22
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2006
Posts: 95
From: Germany

@Nimrod

Hahaha. Interesting that you show no understanding. Well, you can't be an insider because none of them will ever dare to call himself Nimrod.

Hint: some know and some know not.

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nimrod7 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 22-Apr-2011 9:37:04
#1 ]
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Joined: 4-Jan-2010
Posts: 285
From: Poland

@KingKong

Quote:

KingKong wrote:
@Nimrod

Hahaha. Interesting that you show no understanding. Well, you can't be an insider because none of them will ever dare to call himself Nimrod.

Hint: some know and some know not.


leave us nimrods alone, please

_________________
"Marxism must abhor nothing so much as the possibility that it becomes congealed in its current form. It is at its best when butting heads in self-criticism, and in historical thunder and lightning, it retains its strength" - Rosa Luxemburg.

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T-J 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 22-Apr-2011 10:49:09
#1 ]
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Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@KingKong

Quote:
Hint: some know and some know not.


Well, that's what you know.

Anyway, the end of the world thread is currently located here. References to websites about the apocalypse belong there, not in this thread. Now, back to the Dave Haynie argument!

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Boot_WB 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 22-Apr-2011 14:14:14
#1 ]
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Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

EDIT - Post moved to the 'Website Bugs' thread.

Last edited by Boot_WB on 22-Apr-2011 at 02:21 PM.
Last edited by Boot_WB on 22-Apr-2011 at 02:15 PM.
Last edited by Boot_WB on 22-Apr-2011 at 02:15 PM.

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Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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Boot_WB 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 22-Apr-2011 14:16:59
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

EDIT - Post moved to the 'Website Bugs' thread.

Last edited by Boot_WB on 22-Apr-2011 at 02:21 PM.
Last edited by Boot_WB on 22-Apr-2011 at 02:18 PM.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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