Hi Everyone!

This is so needed. Great work bit by bit. I will be ordering it later this month! GUI builder...Yes, finally :)

Yogi27

@ Yogi27

Quote:

Hi Everyone! This is so needed. Great work bit by bit. I will be ordering it later this month! GUI builder...Yes, finally :) Yogi27

Yes, do order. I already paid in full.

Come on all you Amiga fans and get this.
Let's keep Jamie coding good stuff for us.

_________________
Moxee
AmigaOne X1000
AmigaOne XE G4
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

I'm interested, but how does this compare to Cubic AIX IDE with GoldED?

Plaz

Is this worth buying? I would like to look into it but I got burnt once before when I bought Storm C for $600 AU (!!!) and it turned out to be unusable crap. Nasty stuff.

So $120 US is quite a lot too. Any feedback or comments?

Quote:

I'm interested, but how does this compare to Cubic AIX IDE with GoldED?

I believe the largest difference between the AVD Suite and Cubic IDE at the moment
is their focus. I would consider Cubic IDE to be Text Editor centric, while I would
consider AVD to be OS4 centric.

What I mean by that is that Cubic IDE is based around a solid programming
editor (GoldED 8), and aims to provide a universal build environment centered
around that editor, and only supports OS4 as one of several possible targets.
This is very much a classic IDE model, and by no means a bad one.

The AVD Suite on the other hand is entirely OS4 native and aims to provide
a RAD (Rapid Application Development) environment, rather than just an IDE,
specifically for OS4. It's focus is to build OS4 applications, tools, games, etc.
using largely visual tools, writing much of the source for you and expanding
into areas like build-on-the-fly GUI Interfaces from XML project files.

Will AVD have many of the same features as Cubic IDE?
For the most part, yes. Eventually. AVD v1.0 (when it is fully released)
will cover the functionality of a classic IDE as part of its development.
However, its focus is still on visual creation tools and bringing the power
of OS4 into the hands of the developer, via a user-friendly interface that
the complete novice would find easy to use and understand.

Therefore, I would consider Cubic IDE (and more specifically its programming
editor) to be a good companion to AVD's currently available SDK Browser
and GUI Builder components. AVD will have an integrated programming
editor of its own, and it will contain those features which are both needed
and requested by the people who are investing their money into this project.
However, I am not targeting AVD to specifically replace GoldED or Cubic IDE
for that matter.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

Best Regards,

Jamie Krueger

_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

Quote:

Is this worth buying? I would like to look into it but I got burnt once before when I bought Storm C for $600 AU (!!!) and it turned out to be unusable crap. Nasty stuff.

I can certainly understand your concern, I too have felt rather shorted by
software that just couldn't deliver what it should have for the price.

I can of course tell you that the final product will be worth far more than
the $120.00 I am asking from those early supporters of this project, but
that could just as easily be my own pride in my work.

Therefore my advice to you is this. Know what you are buying into, and
where possible, try it out first. In the case of AVD, know that today you
will be getting a very handy documentation reference tool (The SDK Browser),
and a graphical interface builder (GUI Builder component) that, combined
with the freely available AVD Template project can take you from point
and click GUI design to ready to build and run program in a matter of
minutes from the very first time you run the program.

Also know that from this point forward you will continue to get free updates
and new components (Project Manager, Text Editor, Debugger) until the full
project reaches version 1.0.

Best Regards,

Jamie Krueger

_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

I'm not a developer & I can't program for toffee but I'll join in a little later this month. Gotta start somewhere eh!

Thanks for this, it looks so sweet!

FuZion.

@JamieKrueger

Wait are you telling me this is like the famous Microsoft Visual Studio developer but for the Amiga OS 4.0? Are you saying, I can create stand alone programs that is either and I am using Visual studio as an example to represent what I am saying (DOS based programs or Windows based programs) but for the Amiga?

Are you also saying with this program I can do the famous Visual Basic 6.0 or Visual Basic.Net GUI tool editor where I can size the shape of the Window, add buttons, and gadgets and double click on each gadget to enter that particular event a code and I can create a full blown application, workbench application with ease that all I concetrate is the functionality of my application and not worry about long winded and endless writing of C++ code just to create a window at certain position and button at certain position?

With your program can I also for example when I delcare a function or varibale and in the main program I do something like

cmdButton.[Drop down menu] and I can select from the choices? Are you also saying if I did a wrong declartion or entered a wrong syntax the editor tool would tell me? Can I, with a simple click of the mouse, do compile form the menu item and it would compile my entire program and if there is an error it would take me to the offending line? Can when I do compile and it compiled it correctly it runs my program automatically and pauses the developer tool until I close the program? Can I do binary compilation as a stand alone?

Last edited by Foody on 02-Dec-2005 at 03:58 PM.

@Jamie:

Quote:

I believe the largest difference between the AVD Suite and Cubic IDE at the moment is their focus.

In all fairness, the largest difference at the moment is that one exists and lets you compile software and the other does not.

Quote:

I would consider Cubic IDE to be Text Editor centric

Certainly, in the sense that you can't replace the text editor. On the other hand, the text editor at its core, over time, has grown into a framework: it is now less of an editor and more of a shell. You can load alien code into it. For example, if you'd want to insert a GUI designer into its interface or a source level debugger, that wouldn't be a problem at all. It has defined interfaces for that. If you wanted to, you could run your AVD GUI designer or your browser inside Cubic IDE. So while the editor at its core is an editor, it is also a framework-style application.

Quote:

(Cubic IDE) aims to provide a universal build environment centered around that editor

Actually, it aims to provide a production environment rather than just a build environment: from writing source code (C/C++ mode, Arexx mode, BASIC/LISP interpreters etc.) to writing manuals (AmigaGuide support) to packaging it (let it create the installation for you) to advertising your software on the internet (HTML editing mode). It was made to address typical needs of developers but not just writing the software. The build environment should be an important part of it. At the moment, it is a bit neglected but a visual build manager will be released in the near future.

Quote:

(Cubic IDE) only supports OS4 as one of several possible targets.

To put a more positive spin to it, Cubic IDE not only supports AmigaOS4 but also AmigaOS3 and MorphOS, so you get good value for your money and can sell your software to a big (relatively ;) crowd. The compiler toolchains for these platforms are native and based on that, Cubic IDE will give you excellent development times.

Quote:

(AVD) However, its focus is still on visual creation tools

Btw, I like your idea of the template application. And very generous of you to release it as freeware. It would be nice to have a staple of such starting points for several occasions: devices, libraries, command line applications etc.

Last edited by dietmar on 04-Dec-2005 at 05:58 PM.

Quote:

Wait are you telling me this is like the famous Microsoft Visual Studio developer but for the Amiga OS 4.0? Are you saying, I can create stand alone programs that is either and I am using Visual studio as an example to represent what I am saying (DOS based programs or Windows based programs) but for the Amiga?

In terms of features, yes it will be comparable to both MSVC++ and Visual Basic,
as a STARTING point. However I would NOT go as far as saying it was going to be some
kind of clone of Microsoft Visual Studio. Yes, you will be able to create standalone
programs based on source templates for both command line only programs and
applications with full GUIs using AVD.

In fact, the current version of AVD's GUI Builder component can already build
your graphical interface design directly into a complete, ready to build and
run C source template. (See the AVD Template Project) for the exact source
that is actually used for this first template.

It should also be noted that Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 (just released starting
at US $549.00), still uses static placement of it's buttons and gadgets on a grid,
making using it slow and clunky compared to using AVD's GUI Builder, which
is based on the real-time creation of OS4's dynamic layout interface system.

Quote:

Are you also saying with this program I can do the famous Visual Basic 6.0 or Visual Basic.Net GUI tool editor where I can size the shape of the Window, add buttons, and gadgets and double click on each gadget to enter that particular event a code and I can create a full blown application, workbench application with ease that all I concetrate is the functionality of my application and not worry about long winded and endless writing of C++ code just to create a window at certain position and button at certain position?

Yes, absolutely. As I mentioned above, with OS4 and AVD's GUI Builder component
you will not need to waste your time tuning the exact size and placement of each button
as the Layout Class automatically handles this work for you, and the GUI Builder makes
it a point and click operation. And yes, it will generate the entire source needed to fulfill
the GUI design to your standalone application, just as you built it in the GUI Builder.

Directly adding the code bits for each function will be online very soon (like this month),
so currently you would let the GUI Builder add the interface code to the AVD Template
and you would add your functions directly into the event handler function within the
template sources.

Remember this is a special "in-development" price because the entire suite is still
in development, but even the unfinished applications that are already available can
give your a huge jump on your project. Later, you will be able to manage and maintain
your entire project through the visual interfaces of AVD.

Quote:

With your program can I also for example when I delcare a function or varibale and in the main program I do something like cmdButton.[Drop down menu] and I can select from the choices? Are you also saying if I did a wrong declartion or entered a wrong syntax the editor tool would tell me? Can I, with a simple click of the mouse, do compile form the menu item and it would compile my entire program and if there is an error it would take me to the offending line? Can when I do compile and it compiled it correctly it runs my program automatically and pauses the developer tool until I close the program? Can I do binary compilation as a stand alone?

To all of these, yes, all of these kinds of features are planned for the final release
of the Advanced Visual Studio v1.0.

Best Regards,

Jamie Krueger

_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

Quote:

still uses static placement of it's buttons and gadgets on a grid, making using it slow and clunky compared to using AVD's GUI Builder, which is based on the real-time creation of OS4's dynamic layout interface system

I'd disagree with calling the paint and draw model "slow" or "clunky". It is easy to use and probably the most user-friendly model of all. Easier than the model of a hierarchical list of h and v groups (possibly complicated and deeply nested). For visually-oriented people, groups in lists make it difficult to play freely with UI elements, re-position them, move stuff around and try out ideas. Of course the paint and draw model has a fundamental problem: resizability of the user interface and font-sensitivity. Some things - how do elements scale - simply must be expressed in a non-visual way and the h/v trees are more logical in that regard. An ideal designer application, in my humble opinion, should offer both input modes: a rapid prototyping sketch mode to do it all visually, nothing textual, no lists. And, complementing the sketch mode, it should have a h/v mode to deal with scaling, object properties and other fine details. It should be possible to go from sketch mode to h/v mode automatically via built-in intelligence that suggests a h/v model for the sketch. No idea if that's even possible, just some ideas.

Last edited by dietmar on 04-Dec-2005 at 06:04 PM.

@dietmar:

Thanks for the clarifications here, I have not had much
experience with using either GoldED or Cubic IDE for that
matter. I did check out the demo, but could not find out
where I could buy the full program or even what it cost?
Being in the USA, where should I be looking to purchase it?
(I mean besides your eBay link special)

I had a couple of quick comments to your statements.
(see below)

Quote:

Quote: I believe the largest difference between the AVD Suite and Cubic IDE at the moment is their focus. In all fairness, the largest difference at the moment is that one exists and lets you compile software and the other does not.

Very true at the moment.
The GUI Builder generates code to the AVD Template at the moment,
but you still need to open a shell and compile it: (ie. type: "make" or "make debug")

Quote:

Quote: I would consider Cubic IDE to be Text Editor centric Certainly, in the sense that you can't replace the text editor. On the other hand, the text editor at its core, over time, has grown into a framework: it is now less of an editor and more of a shell. You can load alien code into it. For example, if you'd want to insert a GUI designer into its interface or a source level debugger, that wouldn't be a problem at all. It has defined interfaces for that. If you wanted to, you could run your AVD GUI designer or your browser inside Cubic IDE. So while the editor at its core is an editor, it is also a framework-style application.

That sounds great, and I would be happy to work with you to better integrate these
tools together. After all, my goal is to grow the platform so if you can use some of
my work and yours to complement each other, the more the better for the community
as a whole. This is also why I will be maintaining standalone versions of the AVD components
and keeping them available for individual sale even after the entire AVD Suite is finished.

Quote:

Quote: (Cubic IDE) aims to provide a universal build environment centered around that editor Actually, it aims to provide a production environment rather than just a build environment: from writing source code (C/C++ mode, Arexx mode, BASIC/LISP interpreters etc.) to writing manuals (AmigaGuide support) to packaging it (let it create the installation for you) to advertising your software on the internet (HTML editing mode). It was made to address typical needs of developers but not just writing the software. The build environment should be an important part of it. At the moment, it is a bit neglected but a visual build manager will be released in the near future.

A visual build manager for Cubic IDE sounds great. Since I assume it will also be
multi-platform (at least AmigaOS3) and AVD will remain OS4 only, may I suggest
supporting the import and export of the open XML GUI interface file format that
I am sponsoring? See an example here: AVDTemplate.xml

Quote:

Quote: (Cubic IDE) only supports OS4 as one of several possible targets. To put a more positive spin to it, Cubic IDE not only supports AmigaOS4 but also AmigaOS3 and MorphOS, so you get good value for your money and can sell your software to a big (relatively ;) crowd. The compiler toolchains for these platforms are native and based on that, Cubic IDE will give you excellent development times.

This is definitely still needed, and I am glad to see that development in this
area continues. As for AVD, the plans I have for it tie it too closely to OS4
itself to consider running it on anything else. It may be capable of building
code for other targets, and will certainly support cross compilers and distributed
compilation, but it will likely remain on OS4 itself for the foreseeable future.

Quote:

Quote: (AVD) However, its focus is still on visual creation tools Btw, I like your idea of the template application. And very generous of you to release it as freeware. It would be nice to have a staple of such starting points for several occasions: devices, libraries, command line applications etc.

Thanks! More templates are on the way, including all the areas you mentioned
above, all of which will continue to be released as freeware. Not to mention the
upcoming "guiX" runtime system for building and running applications on-the-fly
directly from XML project files.

Quote:

Quote: I can of course tell you that the final product will be worth far more than the $120.00 I am asking. On the matter of pitching our warez: if anybody wants to take advantage of the Cubic IDE xmas special ... Buy the latest and greates Cubic IDE package for the friendly price of only 49,90 EUR and - optionally - get another one for the symbolic fee of only 9,99 EUR to give away as present. Solves one present problem and you can help yourself to new software, too :) http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8731452965 (if this link has expired, you can get the same deal on the Cubic IDE web site).

Good one Dietmar! I wish you much success, and happy holidays.

Best Regards,

Jamie Krueger

_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

Quote:

Quote: still uses static placement of it's buttons and gadgets on a grid, making using it slow and clunky compared to using AVD's GUI Builder, which is based on the real-time creation of OS4's dynamic layout interface system I'd disagree with calling the paint and draw model "slow" or "clunky". It is very easy to use and probably the most user-friendly model of all. Easier than the typical Amiga approaches that I have seen: a hierarchical list of h and v groups (possibly complicated and deeply nested) that might appeal to a developer's mind but not to the designer types. For visually-oriented people, groups in lists are counter-intuitive and make it difficult to just play freely with UI elements, re-position them, move stuff around and try out ideas. Of course the paint and draw model has a fundamental problem: resizability of the user interface and font-sensitivity. Some things - how do elements scale - simply must be expressed in a non-visual way and the h/v trees are more logical in that regard. An ideal designer application, in my humble opinion, should offer both input modes: a rapid prototyping sketch mode to do it all visually, nothing textual, no lists. And, complementing the sketch mode, it should have a h/v mode to deal with scaling, object properties and other fine details. It should be possible to go from sketch mode to h/v mode automatically via built-in intelligence that suggests a h/v model for the sketch. No idea if that's even possible, just some ideas.

Don't misunderstand me, I was talking specifically about the nature of having to size
and position the various gadgets by hand, of even having to keep them from overlapping
each other as Visual Studio forces you to deal with.

I agree entirely with your ideas on the "paint and draw" model, at least to the extent
that it does not make things more difficult for the user. AVD's GUI Builder strives to
allow the GUI design to be entirely visual. It does also allow you to work with the direct
list of Horizontal and Vertical groups that represent the actual resulting code, but it
most cases it will not be necessary to even see that tree-view. I do use the inline
editing within the Listbrowser view for naming the gadgets or labels, but again this
is (or will be at least) only one way to get the job done.

It is funny that you mentioned a prototyping sketch mode as I was kicking around
the idea myself, although I'm not sure if would be actually useful or just a cool toy.
However, I do really like the idea of a GUI designer that is closer to a paint program
in functionality so we will have to see.

Best Regards,

Jamie Krueger

_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

@JamieKrueger

I would buy this program in a snap this is a cure and dream come true for any programmer developer who wants to develop programs for the Amiga. But alas I don't own OS 4.0, yet. But for people who own OS 4.0 and a developer, especially for Amiga, please buy and support this product this is one of the many little lights that is needed for Amiga and you have to feed it oxygen in this case, support, so the light will shine bigger and wider.

Just paid in full.
.
SlimJim