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News   News : APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
   posted by AndreasM on 15-May-2008 8:25:42 (8410 reads)
It is already known that we try to reprint the English Amiga Guru Book by Ralph Babel.
Some additions were also planned to the original book.

The German Amiga Guru Book is available for some time now.

Nevertheless some Amiga users needed to put some pirated copies of the book online.

The print material is ready and actually we wanted to give it to the printing press.

But since several weeks there is a torrent with a pirated copy of the English Amiga Guru Book online.

Due to the fact that some Amiga users don't show up any support towards those who keep their platform up and try to supply them with information this project is hereby discontinued.



That's why the Amiga Future project AGG which should be financed through the reprint has also been discontinued.

Original statement by Ralph Babel:

Unfortunately, the release of the 800-page extended edition of the Amiga Guru Book (covering OS 3.x and beyond) scheduled for April was preempted by some fool seeding a scan of the older version into one of those pirate-to-pirate networks, eliminating all hopes of me ever being able to recover the cost of a reprint, so the project had to be stopped immediately to avoid further loss of time and money. Thank you, Keith.

http://babel.de
http://www.apc-tcp.de

    

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PosterThread
d4m0n 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 16-May-2008 11:44:33
#41 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-May-2005
Posts: 204
From: West Wales

Maybe the people downloading it aren't aware of the project for printing it? I certainly wasn't aware of this project, and I shall buy a copy if it happens.

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Swoop 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 16-May-2008 16:31:37
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 2085
From: Long Riston, East Yorkshire

I am not a developer, but I would definetley buy a copy.

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ChrisH 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 16-May-2008 17:01:15
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6672
From: Unknown

I hadn't heard of the Amiga Guru book before, but after reading a review of the first edition, it does indeed sound very intriguing. If a sample PDF was made available (including Contents & Index pages), then I think I'd be very likely to buy a copy of the book...

It would be nice if a complete PDF was provided with orders of the book too, although I guess that might be hoping a bit too much given their concerns over piracy.

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Hypex 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 16-May-2008 17:11:40
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8563
From: Greensborough, Australia

Quote:
Nevertheless some Amiga users needed to put some pirated copies of the book online.


That'd be right! The pirates already destroyed the Amiga game scene and now they want to destroy the Amiga programming scene as well! Typical! Sharing software and ripping away a real manual from us! Things haven't changed.

I was looking forward to buying a copy of this. A real copy. I suppose the torrent is like one of those pirate films, not a proper "recording" but something photocopied. A fake PDF perhaps?

I'd rather have a real book, it doesn't run out of power. And is better for your eyes.

Quote:
Original statement by Ralph Babel:

Unfortunately, the release of the 800-page extended edition of the Amiga Guru Book (covering OS 3.x and beyond) scheduled for April was preempted by some fool seeding a scan of the older version into one of those pirate-to-pirate networks, eliminating all hopes of me ever being able to recover the cost of a reprint, so the project had to be stopped immediately to avoid further loss of time and money. Thank you, Keith.


Who's Keith? The translator?

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wegster 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 16-May-2008 18:05:38
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

Just agreeing with others - this is disappointing.

I'm not sure I understand who cancelled it - Ralph or Andreas?

If it was cancelled because 'no more money to be made,' then why not open source the contents?

I'd happily buy a copy, and do buy or register nearly all software I use (ok, one exception - there was no way in hell I could have ever paid for Photoshop when I was in college, $1k or so :-/ ), and was looking forward to this....but if the alternative is 'kill it and don't update it' then why not open it up?

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Jose 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 16-May-2008 21:14:14
#46 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 896
From: Unknown

I have the RKMs in the dev CD and still I bought the Libraries volume. Reading in a computer monitor is just painfull, nothing like having the a real book.
Besides, this would be the updated version of the book, if you do this just for fun then there's even less sense in stopping.

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walkero 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 16-May-2008 21:29:57
#47 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2004
Posts: 364
From: Athens

@AndreasM
How many preordered copies do you need for this print out to happen? Put a preordering, and if the money will be enough, make the print. if not, then cease this project. But I believe that this is definately fair for all the people that want to buy it.

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AndreasM 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 0:48:31
#48 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Sep-2003
Posts: 333
From: Germany

> I'm not sure I understand who cancelled it - Ralph or Andreas?

Ralph. i am only the "bad" User where dont like to do anythink to change Ralphs decide

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AndreasM 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 0:51:30
#49 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Sep-2003
Posts: 333
From: Germany

> How many preordered copies do you need for this print out to happen?

give a different. i can make difitalprint. have the print-company and all what i need. for this i need 50 buyers.

Ralph woudl like offsetprint. i think offsetprint have never any chance today.

> Put a preordering, and if the money will be enough, make the print.

ralph say no. and i dont have the motivation to change anythink at his decide.

but many people write friendly emails to me. i ask again friday morning ralph. when he say no. the project are dead for me!

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AndreasM 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 0:52:51
#50 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Sep-2003
Posts: 333
From: Germany

> I have the RKMs in the dev CD and still I bought the Libraries volume. Reading in a computer monitor is just painfull, nothing like having the a real book.

sorry, i have cancel our RKM reprint project yesterday

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amigadave 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 2:58:37
#51 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1525
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

Quote:
I still do not understand why Ralph would not want the book to be reprinted (as we (the buyers) are not the pirates, we do not need to be punished for something we did not do, and as we would buy the book even if we are now aware of the pirated copy...) so I still hope!


I understand that [Edit:] Andreas would naturally think that even if MOST of the people that were interested in the new book would still buy it after the pirated release, because of the release there are now going to be LESS than the already small amount of buyers. So, he is p###ed and canceling the publication of the book is in some part an emotional response to the illegal action. Perhaps he will reconsider and choose some other less risky form of distribution of his new book at a later date when the shock of having his hard work stolen from him and damaging his chances of success with the new book fade a little. It makes sense for us to sit on the side lines and complain that there are other ways for him to still make money from distributing his very sought after work, but it will not change the reality that Ralph is the only one to make the decision about what he is going to do.

I doubt it will make a difference, but there is a list growing at A.org of people that are interested in buying the new book. You may want to add your names.

Last edited by amigadave on 17-May-2008 at 03:12 AM.

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Moxee 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 3:50:14
#52 ]
Team Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 6291
From: County Yakima, WA State, USA

@ AndreasM

Quote:

Quote:

How many preordered copies do you need for this print out to happen?


give a different. i can make difitalprint. have the print-company and all what i need. for this i need 50 buyers.


Sounds like there are already more then 50 buyers lined up to purchase this book. You can also count me as one of them. We need to get this sent to the presses for the good of all of us.

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Hans 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 7:49:42
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4775
From: New Zealand

@AndreasM

Quote:
Ralph woudl like offsetprint. i think offsetprint have never any chance today.


At what point would offset-printing become worthwhile? 250, 500, 1000 copies?

Hans

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Colin_Camper 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 11:46:36
#54 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2003
Posts: 1188
From: Unknown

This has nothing to do with Pirates or torrents.

This is so obviously disingenuous.

Why can't people be honest and say 'I can't be ####d' or 'X ####ed me off' or 'I hate the Amiga Community'.

Most people who wanted this book would pay a handsome margin on top of the CafePress price.

ACK used to do this kind of thing regularly - magic up a 'saviour' product for the community and then blame 'errant' members for the non appearance of that product.

For this, they should be sentenced to spend a night in a room listening and watching Doomy sing 'Only Amiga'.

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nbache 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 12:24:24
#55 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 900
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

@Colin_Camper:
Quote:
This has nothing to do with Pirates or torrents.

This is so obviously disingenuous.

Why can't people be honest and say 'I can't be ####d' or 'X ####ed me off' or 'I hate the Amiga Community'.

Most people who wanted this book would pay a handsome margin on top of the CafePress price.

ACK used to do this kind of thing regularly - magic up a 'saviour' product for the community and then blame 'errant' members for the non appearance of that product.

For this, they should be sentenced to spend a night in a room listening and watching Doomy sing 'Only Amiga'.


You know, Colin, this has got to be the most counter-productive post I've seen for quite a while (okay, I admit, I shun certain threads ).

Even if there was a slight chance you were right, nobody would gain anything at all from having that fact stated. So why post such a statement at all?

On the other hand, there's lots to gain by supporting (or at least shutting up and not sabotaging) the efforts of most posters in this thread, to convince Andreas and - more importantly - Ralph, that there is in fact a market which can make it worthwhile for them to complete the project and release the book in some form, preferably printed.

And I also don't buy your analogy with ACK's merits. You can't have followed what Andreas has been doing for the community (well, and his own business, although I don't think he's getting rich off of that). Andreas has already proven many times also in the latest years both his good intentions and his abilities to make them come true, or to support others doing it. CygnusEd, Desert Racing, Amiga Future in English, a lot of projects around PD software repositories and information resources, of which many are being made for free usage by the community, centered around the Amiga Future website. And there are probably lots of other things I haven't mentioned.

So the way I see it, we have everything to gain by believing in his intentions, and nothing to lose. But all is lost in advance if we dismiss his project as something we won't even hope for. That just doesn't add up to me.

Best regards,

Niels

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Colin_Camper 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 13:02:35
#56 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2003
Posts: 1188
From: Unknown

Quote:
You can't have followed what Andreas has been doing for the community (well, and his own business,


I probably would have bought this book but I am not so desperate that I would beg for it.

I wasn't knocking Andreas. His hands appear to be tied.

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HenryCase 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 13:06:53
#57 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

Quote:
I doubt it will make a difference, but there is a list growing at A.org of people that are interested in buying the new book. You may want to add your names.


I thought it was a good idea, so I created a proper petition online so that all members of the Amiga community (not just a.org members) could show their support for publication in one place. Please sign it if you want to see this Amiga Guru Book situation change.

The petition link is here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/4m1ga123/petition.html

Thanks.

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Moxee 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 15:40:27
#58 ]
Team Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 6291
From: County Yakima, WA State, USA

@ Colin_Camper

Quote:

I probably would have bought this book but I am not so desperate that I would beg for it.


Let's keep it nice in here. There is nothing to be gained by calling the other posters beggars.

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Mr_DBUG 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 15:59:40
#59 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2005
Posts: 175
From: South of Oslo

count me in for a copy !

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nbache 
Re: APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
Posted on 17-May-2008 16:18:57
#60 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 900
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

@Colin_Camper:
Quote:
I probably would have bought this book but I am not so desperate that I would beg for it.

Okay.

Personally, I am not ashamed about appealing to someone's good will or empathy or whatever and trying to make them change their mind -- begging, as you seem to call it -- so I don't see myself as desperate doing it.

But my point was: Even if you do see it as desperate begging, why would you want to sabotage it instead of just looking the other way and letting us soil ourselves, happy in the knowledge that you yourself at least didn't stoop so low?

Quote:
I wasn't knocking Andreas. His hands appear to be tied.

Yes, we agree there at least. And as far as I can see, the best shot at untying them is/was to make it obvious also to Ralph that we support their effort. While possibly the worst one was to try to launch a campaign against them and their motives.

Best regards,

Niels

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