@Troels

Quote:

My main concerns are: - You started the bounty but never told us when you were no longer in charge. - The guy in control of the bounty is more or less anonymous. - The guy in control is 100% impossible to get in touch with. - The guy in control closes the bounty just when it MIGHT be completed. - Giving the netscape guy all control of the bounty because he's the main donor (as you told me was the reason), seems weird to me. - The guy is bothered by a few people on boomunny, tbh thats pathetic.

All very unprofessional I'd say. The most disturbing imho being the one about the bounty closing when it might soon be completed.

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@qwertz

Quote:

You can be sure that the Frieden's would have open sourced Timberwolf for $12k.

No we can't. It being an AOS exclusive could have its own benefits as well for them.

Quote:

What BillP is saying here, is that the first porter will only get a laughable 25%.

I think that was a later modification when it became clear no one would likely port it to all platforms themselves iirc.

Regardless, if the $6200 (plus interest) of DFX/NetscapeGuy money is real why not donate 25 percent of it to Timberwolf now? $1550 plus interest would be a nice addition to the Timberwolf bounty. And it would be in the spirit of what that 25 percent was intended for.

Quote:

The Frieden's said that a first beta of Timberwolf can be expected by Christmas so now it was really high time to cancel this thing before someone could start making claims on it.

Quote:

they never had the $7k, at least that's what I think.

Possibly. Lets hope not.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 22-Nov-2009 at 04:40 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 22-Nov-2009 at 04:36 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 22-Nov-2009 at 04:32 PM.

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@pixie
Quote:

after all if your intention is to release source why would you start by spreading it to be closed?

Because it's a contest! The winner gets all the cash and is the one who finishes first. Why would anyone release their source during development? That way someone could wait until it was 95% complete, take it and finish off the last 5% and claim all the money.

@ qwertz:
Quote:

Would you ever expect the Frieden's compiling AmiZilla for Morphos? There you go.

I would expect whoever that abides by your logic who would want to collect the full bounty to do so, if their ego don't allow them to who's to blame? The conditions are there from the start.

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@ smithy : you only have to distribute the code when you distribute the binary, so until you have a final product to distribute you don't have to share it with no one.

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This thread saddens me.

Firstly to start off with I never donated any money to this project I suggest anyone else who not donated don’t really have the right to criticise the way it been handled, the only people who haves right to complain about the bounty and what’s happened are the people who supported it. And as I understand it they are getting there money with interest back if they wish, or support another Amiga related project.

At the end of the day how many companies are there out there actively still supporting the Amiga and backing projects. To annoy and criticises in my view one of the most active company’s in the amiga market trying to help out and thinking up new ideas of how to get activity going in this mini cult market, putting money into projects and web sites, its a dam shame to knock down to level some people are. EVEN if they are trying to get out of paying $2,000 + $6,000 we cant afford to loess them, we the amiga community need all the help we can get to help Amiga say alive.

So please, please, please stop picking on one of the few company that is trying to help out, from what I can see are doing the right thing and have done a lot more good than harm to the community.

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AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

Quote:

EVEN if they are trying to get out of paying $2,000 + $6,000 we cant afford to loess them, we the amiga community need all the help we can get to help Amiga say alive.

I'd counter that in general we probably can afford having less companies that try to play games with us. We've been through that way too many times already. And so anything that smells like that is bound to be an issue in this community.

The way this was handled has brought up some valid questions. If they did not want to discuss Moo Bunny, rumors, monies withheld as some sort of punishment, money in the incorrect hands, etc etc etc they should not have brought these subjects up. They did not have to go there. Anyone in this community for even a month should know going there would *increase* drama, not decrease it. Its quite baffling why they did this.

They have done some good things and that earns them some benefit of the doubt. But this stuff is just bizarre. This is also the same firm that went on in public when Amiga, Inc. would not sell to them where they wanted our help to somehow convince them into selling anyway. Just weird stuff.

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Just my thoughts, sorry people this is what I think IMHO...

Indeed it could be perceived as "Very, very strange" and "odd" that such a courageous unknow donor will withdraw from a bounty due to some silly comments over a well known GOSSIP SITE such as Moo Bunny...

And remember that we are talking of a person who donated US $ 4200 (and some spare cents) , and had the ENORMOUS patience of watiting for 6 years with no certain chance of seeing a real Netscape/Firefox porting into Amiga, and also leaving all this money unused, and with no control over it...

Very very strange!

People who had their money invested for 6 years with scarse chances of succes, but only giving their money as a sponsorship to a entire community in its whole, sure are people with guts and they have no fear of trolls, and certainly they are not easily pis*ed off due to critics and comments by gossip poisoned crap that was spit off from well known trolls'site....

And sure I dislike also the very starting comment from "Discreet FX"

"If you want your money back then contact us"...

I do not want to launch accuses, but That's sure some sort unfair behaviour from people who are in charge of trusteeing ->"ANY""HOW MANY"

Last edited by Raffaele on 22-Nov-2009 at 07:46 PM.

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"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@amigang

Quote:

So please, please, please stop picking on one of the few company that is trying to help out, from what I can see are doing the right thing and have done a lot more good than harm to the community.

I agree, this forum tends to nail every Amiga supporter to a cross, first the hands, then the feet. But never being satisfied with that, -vulgar reference removed- nailed as well. Even the Romans didn't do that...

Mode note: Lets be careful with the vulgarity please.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-Nov-2009 at 01:20 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-Nov-2009 at 01:19 AM.
Last edited by sundown on 22-Nov-2009 at 08:08 PM.

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

105. Gianfranco Gignina, $5

My 5$ to Timberwolf project please :)

Quote:

Would you ever expect the Frieden's compiling AmiZilla for Morphos? There you go.

If it is just a simple recompile as you say, why not? I am sure the Frieden brothers would beside some more cash also get a good reputation for that gesture among the MorphOS and AROS users. Some 68k user could test the work of the Frieden brothers and maybe decide upon that experiece to purcase OS4 i the end.

Anyway, I tink it was about time to get rid of Amizilla, the browser situation changed a lot recently. Mozilla is not the überbrowser anylonger (webkit did a strike). OS4 will probably get a kind of a Firefox port (timberwolf), MorphOS and AROS will be happy with OWB, and for 68k there is Netsurf,that one isn't as powerful als OWB or FF, but more lightweight and, thus better suited for 68k. There is not much of a need for Amizila anymore.

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MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@sundown

Quote:

I agree, this forum tends to nail every Amiga supporter to a cross, first the hands, then the feet. But never being satisfied with that, -vulgar reference removed- gets nailed as well. Even the Romans didn't do that...

I agree as well, hence this will be my absolute LAST post on AW...



For those that seem to like vilifying people like Bill and myself, the only thing you do by sensationalizing things is to cause more FUD in the community. I personally don't like it and I'm willing to bet cash money that a good percentage of the community hates it to.

I for one stand by Bill P and will publicly say it on any forum (except here as I refuse to even be associated with this site anymore.. ) including my show. He's done great by me as well as this community and I frankly think the crap thrown at him is nothing more than a bunch of whiny kids who have a sense of entitlement.

Now that I said my peace... I now say so long, adios, au revoir, see you in the funny papers!

Mod note: Removed vulgar reference from the quote

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-Nov-2009 at 01:22 AM.

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@pixie Quote:

What lead you into thinking that I state a fact instead of an opinion?

I don't see any other way to read what you wrote, than as a statement of fact:
Quote:

He wont release since it was never their intention

It *should* have said something like "He won't release since I think it was never their intention".

And please don't claim that I am taking it out of context, because the bit that follows merely appears to be adding an additional argument to back-up your statement of "fact":
Quote:

, after all if your intention is to release source why would you start by spreading it to be closed?

BTW, please don't feel that I am picking on you personally. A lot of people have been doing it, and it is certainly a very easy mistake to make if you are not careful. But given the extremely emotional arguments going on here, you NEED to be careful of how you say things.

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@MobbyG Quote:

I frankly think the crap thrown at him is nothing more than a bunch of whiny kids who have a sense of entitlement.

Probably quite true, so why get upset by what a bunch of whiny kids say? Did no-one here ever get called names at school?

Quote:

this will be my absolute LAST post on AW...

Oh dear, someone else IMHO talking things too personally & over-reacting .

Don't get me wrong though: Some people here should have not been allowed to repeatedly make such strongly stated posts about what is obviously a very sensitive matter. Given that this seems to be a trend on AW.net of late, I could understand if you chose to not visit too often - but deciding to never ever make any posts on AW.net again just seems to make those "whiny kids with a sense of entitlement" more important than they really are.

Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Nov-2009 at 12:32 AM.

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@CrisH:
Quote:

It *should* have said something like "He won't release since I think it was never their intention".

Somehow are you suggesting that I'm not thinking if I do not state it? I find it down right offensive if that's so! :p

I don't go over that kind of labeling, It's obvious it's only my opinion, I don't have to state it each time I am to start a sentence.

Quote:

Quote: And please don't claim that I am taking it out of context, because the bit that follows merely appears to be adding an additional argument to back-up your statement of "fact": after all if your intention is to release source why would you start by spreading it to be closed?

You saw it as a present of a fact, I see as an argument to back what was said before,like this are my reasons to think so, yet, despite explicitly stating those and instead of counter argument those you chose to pick on the way I presented them.

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@MobbyG

Quote:

For those that seem to like vilifying people like Bill and myself

I don't remember anyone vilifying you. Moxee and I both thought your making fun of a deaf member of our community on your show was in poor taste. It was merely an opinion expressed. And we both said it was at least thankfully not over the top. In such a context as that I can't see how that could be classified as "vilification".

Quote:

nothing more than a bunch of whiny kids who have a sense of entitlement.

I think we've already pretty well covered the concept of "don't bring up something if you don't want it discussed with opposing opinions". Talk of withholding funds that benefit the whole community because you don't like that a few people disagree with you seems childish to me. Why hurt the community by doing that? Why hurt them more by letting them know you are doing that. What resolution can they offer you when it comes to opinions of dissent from your opinion that you don't like??

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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
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@fairlane

Why do you pick apart peoples posts like that? It's a terrible skill everyone has acquired on amiga portals. Thats the reason I keep my posts short now. I've stopped trying to phrase everything like a lawyer, so that when people reply to me, others can see the sort of person they are. The truth isnt out there, man.. build a bridge.

@jahc

Quote:

Why do you pick apart peoples posts like that? It's a terrible skill everyone has acquired on amiga portals. Thats the reason I keep my posts short now

Which is the exact advice I offered already to DFX about his press release. Almost all of the questions that came up could have been avoided from the start if he had kept it short and sweet.

As for MobbyG, if he wants to say he was vilified I find it entirely normal to say why I don't think that was the case.

If he is going to cast people as spoiled children I think its entirely normal to address that with one's own opinion on the subject the other person decided to bring up.

I appreciate your opinion though jahc. I've always been a detail oriented person, and am used to talking in specifics in general.

I've issued warnings twice in this thread for direct accusations made that could not be backed up. I've mentioned how DFX deserves a measure of a benefit of the doubt for previous good works, most recently that 4000T they gave away.

But valid questions came up from the "too much information" DFX decided to give.

Quote:

I've stopped trying to phrase everything like a lawyer, so that when people reply to me, others can see the sort of person they are.

Fair enough, but you are not someone who ever told us how you were doing stuff out of anger at Moo Bunny . Or that you were leaving this site because you are angry a couple of guys gave an opinion that making fun of someone's voice that is a direct result of their disability is a bit uncool. People make mistakes. People sometimes need to agree to disagree.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-Nov-2009 at 03:44 AM.

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Well, firstly, I don't blame this guy at all for pulling out- the treatment he got recently for putting $5000 into a open-source project to help the Amiga platforms is absolutely abysmal! All the people responsible should be completely ashamed of yourselves! He puts money into helping the Amiga communities out of the goodness of his heart, and gets his character ripped to shreds for it!
Well, those responsible- I hope you feel happy with the precedent you've now set to anyone donating large amounts of money to Amiga alike OS bounties- ie: DON'T DO IT!! - You will be insulted, and your motives will be assumed to be the absolute worst! Donators BEWARE!

And I'd like to say, DiscreetFX has always done a wonderful job of supporting the Amiga scene, and has put a lot of money and time into supporting it! They have always been very honest and genuine, and their motives have always been excellent.

But that aside- the only real issue here, is that IMO, a time limit should have been put on the AmiZilla bounty- even if it was a generous one, say like 5 years, it would have prevented any trouble. Of course to be fair- it was the first bounty experiment in the Amiga communities, so as has been mentioned already, was a great and bold first step, and has led to a culture of bounties to get important work done! And it did us a favour, as things were learned from AmiZilla, and now all bounties have time limits- the biggest tend to be about 2 years. The AmiZilla bounty was around with no real work being done to it for many years- it is a completely logical decision to close it after all this time! It is being handled well, with money going back to donators, or redirected at their request, and even interest being paid- and people are complaining! To those complaining- just take into consideration, that that money could have just disappeared, and no-one could have really done anything about it...

As for the AmiZilla Team, I'll have to talk to them, what they want to do- whether to close down the mailing list or not. The source code should stay on SourceForge, as it is still useful for any potential MOS or AROS ports.

And finally from me personally- I have no problems with shutting it down- it didn't fail from lack of trying, just a lack of experienced programmers willing to work on it. They would quite happily work on Browser projects on their specific OSes (even with multiple browser projects on one OS as well!), but no-one would spend any time on a project which would have helped all of the them.
It's a shame- as with info that came from the recent Timberwolf news forum, it probably would only have taken an experienced programmer a couple of weeks to get the NSPR working, and now with FF 3 doing all GFX internally- the GFX side could have been done relatively easily in an Intuition window. Oh, well, If I find time, I still may have a go at it...

And to the Friedens and others doing Browser ports- I wish you all well!

Ants
AmiZilla Coordinator

Last edited by Ants on 23-Nov-2009 at 04:59 AM.
Last edited by Ants on 23-Nov-2009 at 04:50 AM.
Last edited by Ants on 23-Nov-2009 at 04:42 AM.

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- Ants

@Ants
Thanks for trying!

Quote:

The AmiZilla bounty was around with no real work being done to it for many years- it is a completely logical decision to close it after all this time!

The logical decision would have been to close it years ago, since that didn't happen the logical thing would have been to await the release of Timberwolf for AmigaOS4 and see if the Friedens would release the source code.

Saying there has been no work done in years simply isn't right as we are closer than ever to get the amizilla bounty fulfilled. We "just" had to convince the Friedens to release the source.

It is a competition and others could _in theory_ sit with a 90% finished port and a bounty that closed without a warning.

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