@Umisef

First of all, I do not feel inclined to answer your snide remarks because you are certainly not a potential customer and this is the last time I will waste my time answering you.

If somebody does not trust Hyperion or A-EON regarding the refund, they should not apply. Simple as that.

Incidentally, now that we are in the area of snide remarks, you yourself could not even guarantee that the product you were shipping (Amithlon) despite all its merits (contrary to you, I can be objective) was a legal product with a legal license from the trademark and copyright holders. Note that your product was not listed in the recent Amiga - Hyperion - Itec settement agreement as a pre-existing licensed product i.e. it was blatantly illegal unlike e.g. AmigaForever.

So you effectively sold illegal software to unsuspecting Amiga users worldwide. It may not have been "your fault" but you certainly did not do your homework on the legal front which makes it your personal liability under the law.

People living in glass houses should not throw stones and that's about all you have been doing for years now.

Delving into the past can be a dangerous exercise.

Again, this will be the last reply you ever get from me because your bitterness, frustration or whatever mental state you are in, makes any reasonable discussion a waste of time and again, you are not a prospective customer so I do apologize if I prioritize answering genuinely interested people.

This post is not intended as a personal attack on Umisef, is purely based on fact and is a statement of policy on behalf of Hyperion vis à vis the continuous attacks by Umisef on Hyperion and A-EON and AmigaOS 4.x in general.

_________________

@ HyperionMP

And I thought the ann.lu times were over...

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@HyperionMP

This is getting off topic but

Quote:

Note that your product was not listed in the recent Amiga - Hyperion - Itec settement agreement as a pre-existing licensed product i.e. it was blatantly illegal unlike e.g. AmigaForever.

H&P's illegal OS 3.5/3.9 aka Aminet Patch Collection is not listed there either. Does this mean that Hyperion Entertainers CVBA consider H&P's OS 3.5/3.9 is blatantly illegal? If so, what actions you are planning to take to stop these illegal activities?

Quote:

This post is not intended as a personal attack on Umisef, is purely based on fact and is a statement of policy on behalf of Hyperion vis à vis the continuous attacks by Umisef on Hyperion and A-EON and AmigaOS 4.x in general.

Relax dude.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

Quote:

the product you were shipping (Amithlon)

You have me confused with Juergen Haage.

Quote:

So you effectively sold illegal software to unsuspecting Amiga users worldwide. It may not have been "your fault" but you certainly did not do your homework on the legal front which makes it your personal liability under the law.

You may apologise now. I never sold any Amiga user a single piece of software.

Quote:

This post is not intended as a personal attack on Umisef

Sure. Because you obviously enjoy dealing with the points raised in an argument so much more than engaging in a strawman ad-hominem, right?

Quote:

And I thought the ann.lu times were over...

It is good to have here some experts on this topic...

Quote:

I will waste my time answering you.

And then you wasted your time on this little offtopic rant.

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@itix

Quote:

H&P's illegal OS 3.5/3.9 aka Aminet Patch Collection is not listed there either.

Wrong. Read Exhibit 1 of the September 30 Agreement:
"Amiga considers this agreement terminated, but Haage & Partner may not."

@pavlor

Illegal to sell nevertheless.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

Quote:

Illegal to sell nevertheless.

Probably. However, it is listed among the "Existing licencing agreements", thus contrary to your original statement.

@all

This thread is about the X1000 Beta program news.

Its not about the legal standing of previous products. Lets please get back on topic.

If you wish to discuss such other products simply make a new thread for it.

Thank you in advance.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 01-Jun-2010 at 01:34 PM.

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

And I'd like to reiterate my recommendation that anyone considering entering into a contractual agreement with an Amiga-related company seek legal counsel. This isn't FUD; it's common sense. Hyperion was very much at the center of the Amiga-Eyetech-Hyperion scandal, and no amount of legal maneuvering, religious zeal, or community involvement should cloud your eyes to the fact that Hyperion's investors are interested in profit, nothing more.

You can be friends with the individuals involved and still harbor a safe and respectable amount of distrust for their business endeavors.

Regarding the pay-to-play beta test, I'll quote Buffy: "... there's definitely something unnatural going on here. And that doesn't usually lead to hugs and puppies." (I've never been involved in a test program in which I had to pay for the product(s) I was testing, not counting AmigaOS 4.1.)

_________________
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borked A1200/Blizzard1260+SCSI-IV/Z4+MediatorZIV/Deneb/Voodoo3/CatweaselMk3
more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603

Quote:

Hyperion was very much at the center of the Amiga-Eyetech-Hyperion scandal, and no amount of legal maneuvering, religious zeal, or community involvement should cloud your eyes to the fact that Hyperion's investors are interested in profit, nothing more.

Do you seriously think operating a business in the Amiga market is likely to be profitable? I can't imagine anyone truly operating in the Amiga market only for profit, let alone mostly for profit.

Quote:

Regarding the pay-to-play beta test, I'll quote Buffy: "... there's definitely something unnatural going on here.

I'd agree this does not make them look very good. Hopefully the communication they have sent back to interested parties is more enlightening in a good way than what they have shared publicly,

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

Quote:

Do you seriously think operating a business in the Amiga market is likely to be profitable?

With enough acumen, yes. (EDIT: This is contrary to statements I've made in the past, but conversations with various folks have led me to believe that you can be profitable in Amigaland, all while treating your customers fairly.)

Quote:

I'd agree this does not make them look very good.

I really do want the product to succeed--just not at the expense of a codependent and often irrational user base. EDIT: I see the pay-to-play program as an investment, and with every investment comes risk. I hope everyone's mindful of that.

Last edited by Trev on 01-Jun-2010 at 08:33 PM.
Last edited by Trev on 01-Jun-2010 at 08:31 PM.

_________________
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borked A1200/Blizzard1260+SCSI-IV/Z4+MediatorZIV/Deneb/Voodoo3/CatweaselMk3
more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603

@all
i think some of the point raised here toward hyperion and aeon are a bit unfair.
hyperion showed few times now that they deliver the goods. and their word can be trusted.
maybe not 100% of the things they said came to be, but for the most part they proved they can be trusted.

they're definatly not comparable to amigainc or troika or ack ..
i think there's a line that should be drawn here.

amigainc promised much and delivered nothing.
hyperion made os4, worked with acube, making os4 for sam too..
considering all the data we have now regarding this new amiga board
i think that it's coming .. now if you think you have what it takes to be a betatester,
you can get the board for half the price. what's wrong with that?
we all know amiga market is struggling, coming back to life slowly, thanks to hyperion btw..
but they don't have the strong back of other big companies and they can't hand over lots of boards for free..
if you're interested in the beta test program then go for it,
if not then don't ..
but don't compare hyperion to ainc or some other companies that promised new boards but couldn't even deliver a picture.
and about aeon, they're new they still have to make their proofs,
but considering hyperion is working with them should be considered a good sign imho.

I don't think Amiga, Inc. was anything other than a shell company, but regardless, Eyetech delivered a substandard product (not entirely their fault, I'll grant), and Hyperion delivered OS4 years later than promised and only delivered a "finished" classic port to evade a breech of contract claim. (That last part is speculation, but it's not a stretch to see a correlation.)

Quote:

now if you think you have what it takes to be a betatester

It's not a contest. You're not going to get a special AmigaWorld.net moniker, gamer points on Xbox Live, a unique item in World of Warcraft, more friends on Facebook, or any of the other ephemeral bits of garbage people value these days. (EDIT: Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if beta testers did get a special forum moniker, tag line, or signature logo, assuming the NDA allows them. Online forum users eat that crap up.)

If you want to contribute to the venture while at the same time forfeiting consumer and investor rights, more power to you. Enjoy the product, celebrate the nostalgia, have fun--just don't lose your head (or your shirt).

EDIT2: Typos....

Last edited by Trev on 01-Jun-2010 at 10:09 PM.
Last edited by Trev on 01-Jun-2010 at 10:08 PM.

_________________
Sam440ep-flex 733 MHz/1 GB RAM/Radeon 9250/AmigaOS4.1 Update 2
borked A1200/Blizzard1260+SCSI-IV/Z4+MediatorZIV/Deneb/Voodoo3/CatweaselMk3
more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603

@Trev

Quote:

With enough acumen, yes.

If one possess such acumen though its clear to see its easier to make money somewhere else. I still don't see a justification for saying they are *only* in it for the money is what I am trying to say.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 01-Jun-2010 at 10:29 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

Quote:

now if you think you have what it takes to be a betatester, you can get the board for half the price. what's wrong with that?

Last I heard the percentage discount you are getting off of retail is unknown. Also how much more you need to pay beyond the deposit is unknown as well.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

Quote:

If one possess such acumen though its clear to see its easier to make money somewhere else. I still don't see a justification for saying they are *only* in it for the money is what I am trying to say.

True, and they probably enjoy the work.

_________________
Sam440ep-flex 733 MHz/1 GB RAM/Radeon 9250/AmigaOS4.1 Update 2
borked A1200/Blizzard1260+SCSI-IV/Z4+MediatorZIV/Deneb/Voodoo3/CatweaselMk3
more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Last I heard the percentage discount you are getting off of retail is unknown.

i thought it was already known the price would be similar to amiga1000 when it got out ?
that price was around 1500$
so 750 for the beta test deposit is roughly half the price of the final product.. more or less ..

Quote:

Also how much more you need to pay beyond the deposit is unknown as well.

was it said that additional fee would have to be paid ?
the way i understood it was that 750$ was needed. i assumed this price was all.

@trev
maybe the amigaone weren't the best machines, maybe os4 was late .. but,
they did it. it wasn't empty promises. they did deliver.
and it was the beginning of os4 ... since then they made quite a few updates.
they fought for their product, they supported it and the users too ..
according to what happened so far, i would be inclined to believe hyperion's word.

Last edited by freeaks on 02-Jun-2010 at 12:07 AM.

@Freeaks

750 EUR ~= 920 USD

I believe Hyperion manipulated the situation to their advantage, which shows at least some acumen. I also believe TrevorD, as an individual, has a measure of altruistic intent, but he's not stupid. In the worst of worst case scenarios (from a community perspective), A-eon and Hyperion could be betting against themselves. It's not unheard of, obviously, in this industry or any other.

For all we know, the investors behind Amiga, Inc. made a significant amount of money on the company's losses. I don't know that anyone's done the necessary research to find out. EDIT: Or maybe that have. Pentti Kouri wasn't a nobody.

Last edited by Trev on 02-Jun-2010 at 12:43 AM.

_________________
Sam440ep-flex 733 MHz/1 GB RAM/Radeon 9250/AmigaOS4.1 Update 2
borked A1200/Blizzard1260+SCSI-IV/Z4+MediatorZIV/Deneb/Voodoo3/CatweaselMk3
more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603