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      /  SAM440: Who bought one?
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PosterThread
polka. 
Re: SAM440: Who bought one?
Posted on 28-Dec-2007 12:15:23
#81 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2005
Posts: 1820
From: Tortuga

@jahc

Quote:

jahc wrote:
@acefnq
Quote:
Totally agree. However, when under powered PPC HW comes from BPLan why aren't the same people so vocal??? EFIKA, what a joke unles it was aimed at "Damn Small Linux"?

What a minute community that would be (PPC Linux EFIKA)

I lump EFIKA and Sam440ep in the same catergory... not that interesting with linux.. but pretty cool with an Amiga type OS on it!
(yes theres price and spec differences.. no I dont want to go on about it)


I'd lump them in the same category too. Both are uncompetitive and uninteresting as Linux systems. And apart from a few demo-projects, I haven't seen that many real-world success-stories where they have proven to be advantageous over cheaper x86 mini-mainboards.
But with OS4 or MOS, both would surely rock. Beggars can't be choosers.

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adiaux 
Re: SAM440: Who bought one?
Posted on 28-Dec-2007 14:23:53
#82 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@jahc

Quote:

jahc wrote:
@acefnq

Quote:
Totally agree. However, when under powered PPC HW comes from BPLan why aren't the same people so vocal??? EFIKA, what a joke unles it was aimed at "Damn Small Linux"?

What a minute community that would be (PPC Linux EFIKA)

I lump EFIKA and Sam440ep in the same catergory... not that interesting with linux.. but pretty cool with an Amiga type OS on it!
(yes theres price and spec differences.. no I dont want to go on about it)


I certainly don't. In the "just enough computing" segment, price is *the key* specification; the most important spec of them all.

I have said it many times before (long before the board was actually built); the SAM440 is very poorly positioned for whatever segment they targeted when they were putting the specs together at early design stage. I can't see who is going to buy it, it's a desktop computer without the desktop performance, and for some strange reason they have included a FPGA that is obviously not being used for anything but only adds complexity and cost. I put more hope to their SAM "Lite" design, hopefully they will use the 440EPx CPU instead (which may reduce the board complexity a bit) and drop the FPGA unless they manage to figure out a purpose for it *that could really justify* its presence, and since you can't build a desktop system based on a low performance 440 CPU anyway you should take this fact into account when adding and selecting any additional controllers. Either you build a desktop class computer with enough specs and performance for compiling/rendering/processing stuff or you build something tailored for a specific market need (like the Efika 2 would be, if that ever gets here, which I'm not too certain of today). *Either* this, *or* that. Otherwise you would end up "stuck in the middle", *neither* this *nor* that, like the current SAM440; a desktop computer that can't be used for desktop usage, and yet too complex and expensive for other things (like STB, TV, info kiosks, security, monitoring, etc, as well as many "industrial" usages (whatever that may be)).

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polka. 
Re: SAM440: Who bought one?
Posted on 28-Dec-2007 18:53:00
#83 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2005
Posts: 1820
From: Tortuga

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

takemehomegrandma wrote:
@jahc

Quote:
jahc wrote:
I lump EFIKA and Sam440ep in the same catergory... not that interesting with linux.. but pretty cool with an Amiga type OS on it!
(yes theres price and spec differences.. no I dont want to go on about it)


I certainly don't. In the "just enough computing" segment, price is *the key* specification; the most important spec of them all.


The lower price of the crippled Efika didn't help at all at bringing it to the target market. It was a flop, just like SAM440 currently looks like a flop.
You name it, price is the key specification and in that regard even the Efika looks extremely poor compared to x86-solutions. Even at a similar price, why would an industrial customer choose the Efika instead of a similar low-watts, but much faster and better supported x86 board?
If there would be a reason, the community of Efika users wouldn't just consist 75% of guys who got their board for free through some Genesi developer-programme.

Last edited by polka. on 28-Dec-2007 at 06:56 PM.

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eniacfoa 
Re: SAM440: Who bought one?
Posted on 29-Dec-2007 10:39:59
#84 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Sep-2007
Posts: 355
From: Melbourne


whats worse- waiting till the end of time for hardware or having a lack of drivers?
x86 is the way to go until the IT world decides to use another architecture...is itanium scrapped yet or what? by the time OS4 gets on SAM, quad core will be standard or who knows, maybe 8 cores lol... when you can get an 2nd hand x86 quad core system box for 150 bux running linux in the not very distant future, there isnt a big reason to get SAM. unless you just a hardcore amiga head who wants every machine...(expensive hobby i cant afford)

i dont know alot of whats happening at genesi but it sounds as stuffed as Ainc. but at least they hand out developer boards, unlike Ainc, the alledged computer company

Last edited by eniacfoa on 29-Dec-2007 at 10:43 AM.
Last edited by eniacfoa on 29-Dec-2007 at 10:40 AM.

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meet.mrnrg 
Re: SAM440: Who bought one?
Posted on 29-Dec-2007 12:05:39
#85 ]
Super Member
Joined: 5-Feb-2007
Posts: 1919
From: UK, AUS, US

@Read this link: From tomazkid - I wrote this 10 years ago, still a valid point?
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=24858&forum=17

This forum is about :
SAM440: Who bought one?

I would also like to point not too long from now! PPC / CELL will be also very cheap due to its millions of sales. So putting together a motherboard with multi core PPC / CELL like 4 core or 8 core or 16 core or 32 core will be just as cheap as the junk alternatives.

Besides with that many cores, you would have to have serious computing requirements to even want such power. Browsing folders, Web Pages, Checking Emails Word processing and Networking can be done on Classic Amiga 4000 with 50-60Mhz MC and 200Mhz PPC add on.

So SAM 440 with 667Mhz and 512MB of RAM and soon (hope) Amiga OS4 will a better alternative? A dual core system from ACK soon (hope) with Amiga OS4 will be a Power System for MPEG and VIDEO workers that need power.

Last edited by meet.mrnrg on 29-Dec-2007 at 12:14 PM.

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Pleng 
Re: SAM440: Who bought one?
Posted on 29-Dec-2007 13:05:07
#86 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Nov-2005
Posts: 458
From: Unknown

@meet.mrnrg

As if we needed any further proof that you are in fact living in a dream world...

Quote:

I would also like to point not too long from now! PPC / CELL will be also very cheap due to its millions of sales. So putting together a motherboard with multi core PPC / CELL like 4 core or 8 core or 16 core or 32 core will be just as cheap as the junk alternatives.


Adding to your list of things to proove then (how are the stats coming on, by the way?) please provide some evidence that the amount of sales of PPC & CELL processors being sold is enough to drive down the price.

Quote:

So SAM 440 with 667Mhz and 512MB of RAM and soon (hope) Amiga OS4 will a better alternative? A dual core system from ACK soon (hope) with Amiga OS4 will be a Power System for MPEG and VIDEO workers that need power.


So you expect to see OS4 on SAM (only going to happen if Hyperion win some court case which has no place being discussed in this thread) and ACK's power system? I'm no regular to the forums but I know that ACK have a pretty poor track record in delivering, and this will ONLY have ANY CHANCE of actually happening (even then it is unlikely) if AmigaINC win the aforementioned court case. In which case we won't be seeing it on SAM.

Please also advise us why you think that OS4 on a dual-core computer would be a power system for MPEG and VIDEO workers. When considering this problem please do not forget to solve the following two issues:

1 - AmigaOS4 can only use 1 core of any CPU that you can throw at it

and

2 - There is no professional video editing software for AmigaOS4

Alternatively, rather than give a rational answer, you could simply ignore what I have to say and give another list of reasons (with no backup) why PPC Amiga is the future and we are all too blind too see it.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: SAM440: Who bought one?
Posted on 29-Dec-2007 13:34:30
#87 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Pleng

Quote:
As if we needed any further proof that you are in fact living in a dream world...


Projects starts whit vision and dream, then the planing starts; how to archives this, by dividing project in smaller bricks, then project is then divided on number individuals you have at hand.

Quote:
AmigaOS4 can only use 1 core of any CPU that you can throw at it


It has been on the agendea ever since AmigaOS4 was announced.

for example last version of OS4, have mutx support, this is basicly SMP friendly option, and required part of getting AmigaOS some time in future on multicode cpu's. the problem we have is that most programs do not use mutx but depends on turning on/off multitasking, when they hack around in list structures.

It's where likely AmigaOS need to do some ticks to get this done.

old kernel running in a VM on top a newer SMP friendly kernel for example, it also requires a large update on all system components like graphics and low level drivers.

Suppose like when MacOS9 programs starts on MacOSX.

Quote:
There is no professional video editing software for AmigaOS4


It's just question of porting over free one from Linux, no big deal, If you have the time to invest in a project like that.

there exists a number of tools already ported that can be used project like that; mplayer for exsample can be used to generate frames, in png format or jpeg, mpeg, it can view the final result, ffmpeg can convert from differnt video format to other video formats. ffmpeg has simpe GUI as well.

Single core 800 Mhz - 1 Ghz G4 AmigaOne computers have no problem doing the work load I can tell you this.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 29-Dec-2007 at 08:53 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 29-Dec-2007 at 01:52 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 29-Dec-2007 at 01:50 PM.

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ironfist 
Re: SAM440: Who bought one?
Posted on 29-Dec-2007 19:57:25
#88 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2004
Posts: 770
From: Pegasos.org

NutsAboutAmiga:
It's just question of porting over free one from Linux, no big deal, If you have the time to invest in a project like that.

Which company on Earth would be stupid enough to
purchase professional video editing tools for hundreds
of thousands, maybe millions, and not choose a commercially
supported software with some company behind, backing
and supporting it?

You are all living in a dream world. Free software is
good for some things, such as Office and Internet tools.

But when it comes to TOOLS, things you work with 8
hours a day, you wouldn't want some free #### that
someone would drop support of at any time. Just because
a dispute in a thread like this..

There is a BIG reason why 99% of all media companies
purchase Adobe's large suites of software. They don't
even take a look at GIMP. The software cost is a single
drop in the ocean compared to an unscheduled production
stop.

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polka. 
Re: SAM440: Who bought one?
Posted on 29-Dec-2007 20:49:00
#89 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2005
Posts: 1820
From: Tortuga

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Projects starts whit vision and dream


There is a difference between vision/dream and delusion/pipe-dreams.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: SAM440: Who bought one?
Posted on 29-Dec-2007 21:11:00
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@polka.

Quote:
There is a difference between vision/dream and delusion/pipe-dreams.


I agree, if your hopeing some will happen, then where likely nothing happens, in this market if like have done do it your self, or organize some thing, sitting on your ass will get things done.

Anyway for record I think its better to target existing hardware,

for example http://www.embeddedplanet.com has for years produced hardware should be easy to port AmigaOS too, as well as Genesi hardware can be targeted, Sony playstation, mac hardware, now we have ACube / SAM400, and Elfika.

its not question of finding hardware, if your looking, is question of documentation and license agreement as we all know.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 29-Dec-2007 at 09:12 PM.

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