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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion Entertainment is not bankrupt
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BigD 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 16:56:31
#821 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@damocles

Quote:
Hyperion's current owners do not have the financial nor the talent to achieve a reboot of the Amiga OS series. It's going to take someone else to achieve Amiga OS5.


However, they currently own it and by all accounts are actively developing the OS and have formed alliances with A-EON and ACube. There are a lot worse owners out there and even though a reboot of AmigaOS is a long shot as things currently stand, all it takes is one big investor or venture capitalist to believe in Hyperion's vision and things could change around! I really don't know what to expect from Hyperion any more but we're all here along for the ride and whatever happens AmigaOS has been by and large a great source of encouragement to me. It demonstrates that something good can rise from the Commodore Amiga ashes and can perform modern desktop computer tasks in the 21st century.

The problem is we all put Apple size expectations on Hyperion, A-EON and ACube and seem to expect them to develop hardware/software solutions for phones, tablets, laptops AS WELL as port the desktop OS to ARM or x86-64 and they simply don't have the resources for this. In fact AmigaOS cannot for 99.9% of users offer anything that Windows, Mac OSX or Linux can't. Sad but true! If you went on Dragon's Den (BBC TV programme) with AmigaOS and their current business model, Hyperion simply wouldn't get a look in.

Am I glad they exist, YES.

Would I put money in as an investor to support their vision for our beloved platform, PROBABLY NOT.

Would I buy an AmigaOS computer, YES AT THE RIGHT PRICE.

Does any of this have anything to do with Hyperion being bankrupt? Probably very little. We are not aware of how Hyperion keep their ship afloat but they have up to now and if Amiga Inc. are anything to go by Hyperion will be able to reincorporate and continue with their business pursuits. Will some suppliers, end users, the platform in general suffer as a result of their business practices? Yes, they definitely will but compared to Commodore, Escom, Gateway 2000 and Eyetech this is just par for the course in Amiga-land. Sad but true. But at the end of the day we're still here awaiting the next software update from Hyperion with SMT and Gallium etc and in my case hoping they'll one day release Worms Armageddon for an AmigaOne machine!

Last edited by BigD on 08-Mar-2015 at 04:59 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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damocles 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 17:41:55
#822 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
However, they currently own it


They own the license from Amiga Inc. I would be very surprised to hear Hyperoin has been buying all the source code licenses from the OS4 Devs. Now if the OS4 Dev based his work on IP owned by Cloanto, then it gets really sticky of a subject on who owns what. I guess we shall find out if the courts rule against Hyperion's appeal of the initial hearing's ruling and if documents are published on that court's web server.



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Dammy

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Massi 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 18:02:34
#823 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 627
From: Rome, Italy

@clebin

The same treatment should be applied to cdimauro for destabilizing, if you are above the parts.

Don' t consider this as off topic.

_________________
SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

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Anonymous 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 18:18:41
# ]

0
0

@Massi

I've warned him another thread as well as making a general warning to stay on topic and not retaliate to you. None of which excuses you to behave badly - take responsibility for your own posts and exercise some self-control. Anyway, this is off-topic so let's leave it here - if you have any more to say, you can send a PM.

Chris

 
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Massi 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 18:26:27
#825 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 627
From: Rome, Italy

@All

Bankrupt or not, the OS has survived so far. History repeats itself.

_________________
SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 19:35:20
#826 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1351
From: CRO


Quote:
Bankrupt or not, the OS has survived so far. History repeats
itself.



The big difference this time is that Hyperion doesn't really own any code and the ownership is divided between many coders which would make picking up the pieces much more difficult - Plus, if Hyperion folds, there is also the issue of Amiga Inc.

And than, there are AROS and MorphOS (hopefully ARIX too) - much faster/easier ways to continue the AOS lineage without having to deal with Ben Hermans or Bill McEwen.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 20:13:35
#827 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
And than, there are AROS and MorphOS (hopefully ARIX too) - much faster/easier ways to continue the AOS lineage without having to deal with Ben Hermans or Bill McEwen.


AmigaOS lineage? Without OS source codes?

Both AROS and MorphOS had more than enough time to prove they are worthy successors to Amiga tradition. If their users/supporters hope to achieve such postion by "death" of AmigaOS itself, their way of thinking is something I wouldn´t like to follow.

Last edited by pavlor on 08-Mar-2015 at 08:23 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 20:36:31
#828 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

dont blame the messenger. you simply have been told why investing in a legally uncertain entity like os4 is risky. in case os4 can not be distributed anymore its likely some of its supporters will look around for replacement, but i am not so self confident as to think that this would happen because of us. and given that most valuable people have left the scene long ago i doubt anybody can benefit much of any kind of exodus, in weicherer direction, would that happen.

why are we then discussing it at all? likely because there isnt much to discuss otherwise around here.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 21:09:34
#829 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1351
From: CRO

@pavlor

Quote:
AmigaOS lineage? Without OS source codes?


As related OSes sharing most of the advantages and disadvantages of AOS, yes.
Source code is irrelevant.

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itix 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 21:21:37
#830 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@pavlor

Is this your official rage quit? :)

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 21:34:14
#831 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@itix

Quote:
Is this your official rage quit? :)


Is this your official invitation to the MorphOS crowd?

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 21:55:15
#832 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

actually according to your priorities, you should refrain to using strictly genuine amiga workbench instead that alien replacements like exec-sg, cairo, so objects, pci-bus drivers.. stuff like that doesnt offspring amiga lineage, you know..

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saimon69 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 22:09:54
#833 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2007
Posts: 307
From: Los Angeles, CA

@pavlor

Quote:

AmigaOS lineage? Without OS source codes?


To me direct "noble" lineage is as useful as a refrigerator in the middle of antarctica, as long as the philosophy is brought on.

_________________
Scarabocchi Binari - Italian AROS Blog
Binary Doodles - English language AROS Blog

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sundown 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 23:08:44
#834 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@cdimauro

Quote:
It's better to have some new about Hyperion's opposition to the bankrupt declaration, just to be in-topic: it's the 8th March now, and the silence promises nothing good, considering that Ben Herman very quickly replied after the bankrupt new come out on this thread, and until now there's no sign of life...

Do you really think any court solves issues in a few days? This could take months & in the mean time, nothing has changed.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Mar-2015 23:15:59
#835 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@pavlor

if something feels like Amiga OS, looks like Amiga OS, behaves like Amiga OS and even runs Amiga OS software then it is Amiga OS

You are much too much looking on "AmigaOS lineage? Without OS source codes?"

Who cares sources finally... most people today even do not know Amiga anymore. The brand still would have some value because at least some people remember it from their youth, but that is all. The sources would certainly help AROS and MorphOS to improve compatibility in some areas but that is all. But the "lineage" how you call it make AmigaOS not better or superior to the others. That sounds a little like blind brand following but you certainly do not mean it this way.

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 9-Mar-2015 0:21:12
#836 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Thread

Again this is turning into a 'Ha Ha AmigaOS is dead, long live MorphOS & AROS' rant. These sentiments are irrelevant. AmigaOS will continue with or without Hyperion. I expect A-EON to buy them out if it comes to it or more likely for Hyperion to come out of bankruptcy to to try and pull some sort of reincorporation type scam like Amiga Inc did. I really don't see MorphOS & AROS will benefit from this. It will either further consolidate the A-EON, Hyperion and A-Cube partnership or will lead to a further exodus of users in a worst case scenario. For AmigaOS users and casual Amiga classic users this attempt of MorphOS and AROS users to laugh it up and attempt to push their OS through Hyperion's misfortune and misery is not going to win them any friends or future users. Get back on topic and keep quiet about other flavours of Amiga-like OSes that have no direct relevance to this thread!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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paolone 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 9-Mar-2015 10:17:53
#837 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

@thread

I wonder why this topic is titled "H.E. bankrupt?" and what goes on lacking here are news about the appeal to court of 5 days ago.

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paolone 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 9-Mar-2015 11:20:37
#838 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
However, they currently own it and by all accounts are actively developing the OS and have formed alliances with A-EON and ACube. There are a lot worse owners out there and even though a reboot of AmigaOS is a long shot as things currently stand, all it takes is one big investor or venture capitalist to believe in Hyperion's vision and things could change around!


Hi BigD, there is a difference in "owning" and having been "licensed to use" something.
The former condition lets you do what you want, including selling the asset to save your ass during a liquidation.
The latter, instead, just returns the asset to the real owner (Amiga Inc, in this case) when you're declared bakrupt.

Please get real: investors and venture capitalists won't bet a single penny on an already-declared-insolvent company, unless it had (owned) a very strong asset in its hands (and, obviously, with the only condition that unsolvent CEO and board of directors would be removed instantly). With the only asset being the license to use a 25-years-old codebase, furtherly developed to run on some hundreds of costy and underpowered exotic PPC systems, which represent the smallest fraction of a fraction of a niche in the whole IT industry, well, there are NO chances that ANYONE except an Amiga lover with much, much money in his pocket will help here (the other chance is a highly disinformed investor, rare stuff today). Are AmigaOS fans going to plea Trevor Dickinson forever?

Quote:

The problem is we all put Apple size expectations on Hyperion, A-EON and ACube and seem to expect them to develop hardware/software solutions for phones, tablets, laptops AS WELL as port the desktop OS to ARM or x86-64 and they simply don't have the resources for this. In fact AmigaOS cannot for 99.9% of users offer anything that Windows, Mac OSX or Linux can't. Sad but true! If you went on Dragon's Den (BBC TV programme) with AmigaOS and their current business model, Hyperion simply wouldn't get a look in.


we all? WE ALL? o_O

Please, speak for yourself and don't place words or ideas in somebody else's mouth. Every Amiga lover dreams about tablet, phones and generally modern solutions branded with the 'Amiga' name and powered by an 'Amiga' heart. But one thing are dreams, while another completely different matter is reality. I'd bet that everyone's expectations would be quite lower: for instance, that ACube and A-Eon make some products, and Hyperion would just support them developing (or helping development of) the necessary drivers. You may say "but also Microsoft does not code drivers for Windows!", yes, right, but Hyperion is/was quite far from having developed a ubiquitous, once almost-molopolizing operating system installed on millions and millions of PCs. If you own a hardware company you NEED to create a driver for Windows, it's part of product development costs. If you run a company which developes a OS used by rare and costy machines, then you NEED to support them as much as you can, or your operating system will be plagued not only by rarity, obscurity and higher costs, but will even badly run on available hardware, which does hit the 'hookability' value on new potential users.

In the Commodore age, the Amiga was considered a rock stable platform even if frequent Guru Meditations often interrupted work. But you could buy a system from Commodore and be 100% sure that all the features of the machine were supported by the operating system. This is/was true for Apple too. A-Eon, ACube and Hyperion should have talked themselves enough to provide the same degree of reliability: be honest, it's not so difficult, and it's the bare minimum to be considered a serious platform. "Buy my 1000/2000/3000 euros hardware and get OS support in 24 months" is not an attracting payoff for new users, I mean.


Quote:

Again this is turning into a 'Ha Ha AmigaOS is dead, long live MorphOS & AROS' rant. These sentiments are irrelevant. AmigaOS will continue with or without Hyperion.


AmigaOS is not a open source project that anyone can "continue". This is not a rational consideration, this is a religious dogma.

Quote:
I expect A-EON to buy them out if it comes to it or more likely for Hyperion to come out of bankruptcy to to try and pull some sort of reincorporation type scam like Amiga Inc did.


So what is exactly your favourite business model here? Being faithful in Trevor again and again, while hoping that Hyperion will become another Delaware company making shady business, for the only purpose of let AmigaOS live? Please beware of the fact that since Commodore died, the appeal of Amiga platform went on decreasing year by year, and now what remains? Old games which are boud to the Amiga name only for the fact that they worked on Amiga, which is what Amiga Inc currently sells, and our little crew of nostalgics. Do you REALLY think AmigaOS will find another savior? Again and again?

Quote:
I really don't see MorphOS & AROS will benefit from this. It will either further consolidate the A-EON, Hyperion and A-Cube partnership or will lead to a further exodus of users in a worst case scenario. For AmigaOS users and casual Amiga classic users this attempt of MorphOS and AROS users to laugh it up and attempt to push their OS through Hyperion's misfortune and misery is not going to win them any friends or future users. Get back on topic and keep quiet about other flavours of Amiga-like OSes that have no direct relevance to this thread!


Once again, it seems you're having issues with "people are saying / I believe they're saying" dept.

Maybe someone has developed bad attitudes with AmigaOS 4 users in the past and now they are somehow smiling (it's called schadenfreude, IIRC), but I guess they are a minority. When a operating system or a software house dies, is a pity and a loss for everyone instead. My heart bleeds when thinking about poor OS4 users who spent thousands of euros for a niche computer system, and now do not even know if the OS provided is still alive or not.

Well, not so much, honestly. The problem here is that many people SAID (this is true) that Hyperion's business model and A-Eon's approach were at least "questionable", but listening to words of wisedom was no option at all. "I've told you" is not a sentence of happyness.

Last edited by paolone on 09-Mar-2015 at 11:23 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 9-Mar-2015 11:31:56
#839 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@BigD

the casual "classic" users (how you call them) do not see themselves as "classic" but "Amiga" users and they do not care about Hyperion or any of the other NG falvors. Ever been to a Amiga meeting?

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Overflow 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 9-Mar-2015 11:32:02
#840 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

@paolone

I agree with alot of the things you say.

Even if Trevor/Aeon buys the rights of AOS, there is just so much manpower available to futher develop AOS at reasonable pace. Libreoffice is still MIA/Work in progress for example.
Thats fine, its a serious "hobby" afterall, so I dont hold that against anyone.

Trevor got a rather good/strong personality that is needed for people to be willing to "follow".
That said; while he (and others around him) has put alot of effort into their project, its still to be considered a hobby/parttime project.
Even with that backdrop, I would be willing to buy AOS spesific hardware if it was prices somewhat reasonable. I could RIGHT now buy x1000 without making a major dent in my bankaccount, but once I venture into the "thousands" of euros range, the nostalgica gets overridden by reality.
200-300 euros I would spend without blinking, 3000? Not a chance.

So, I like what AeonKit is trying to do, but the hardware foundation is a bit too shaky. For me personally.

EDIT: Olaf; Im a classic user, but I do (to a certain extent) care about NG, be it MorphOS, AEROS and AOS. So socalled classic users doesnt frown upon NG by default.

Last edited by Overflow on 09-Mar-2015 at 11:33 AM.

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