@Overflow


ok then I say more precise "most amiga users"



look at the 68k related forums what people are interested in. Hyperion and AmigaOS is certainly not the main topic. The same have I experienced on a amiga meeting lately. People showed their heavy equipped A500,A1200,A2000,A3000,A4000

there was only one Mac Mini with MorphOS (NG is tolerated ). Nobody there cares about if AmigaOS gets Gallium and SMP or not.

@Overflow

it is the same with acquiring licenses for old amiga software. Getting the license and source code is the cheap part, you have to invest lots of money in development to update them. Or you just acquire the license, port it to AmigaOS (with current features) and just add features and really invest in new versions when you find enough buyers for existing version. The problem is... in normal world you invest in software before you get money, in amiga land they try to get the money before really investing in it. And that will not work. Additionally there are not many developers with experience on the different platforms so it is easy to make a version that will not work on other platforms. I have seen that with Personal Paint and I fear it will happen with the other programs too.

@pavlor

Quote:

AmigaOS lineage? Without OS source codes? Both AROS and MorphOS had more than enough time to prove they are worthy successors to Amiga tradition. If their users/supporters hope to achieve such postion by "death" of AmigaOS itself, their way of thinking is something I wouldn´t like to follow.

As other said, source code is totally irrelevant when the goal is replicating bytecode and runlevel features and behavior.

Both AROS and MorphOS had already proved they are worthy successors to Amiga tradition, and that's something AROS and MorphOS users already know for the years you said. AmigaOS 4.1 users simply refuse to accept that such "position" has no practical value and no one here (except them) really needs this kind of achievement. We are all sharing the same hobby, only with little platform differences. So don't worry, eventual AmigaOS 4 death won't change our mind, nor make us happier than we already are.

@OlafS25

Well, what I dont get is why is there a need to emphasise that "people dont care"?
Like thats a reason to delete AOS 4x from history etc.

Take Swamp Defense 2 being reviewed Epsilon. Great blog and great game. Part of the problem why "people care more about classic than NG" is that the majority of us do have classic hardware sitting on their desk. Im considering putting it in a HTPC just for neatness. So I read EAB and other forums about the classic line.
If there had been reasonably priced NG hardware (for me AOS), Id probarly be more into NG news, and I suspect I would not be the only one.

Again; never understood the insessive need to point out the "lack of intrest" for xyz OS.

@paolone I suspect the money i spend on Amiga related "stuff" is the Vampire from Gunnars "crew".

Last edited by Overflow on 09-Mar-2015 at 12:07 PM.

@Overflow

*sigh*

BigD included "classic" users (what most there even would see as either silly or insulting or just laughing about the phrase). It shows me that he is "damaged" by forums like this where people use the phrases and he generalizes his own interest regarding AmigaOS on all. Many in the "NG" see themselves much more important than they really are (even in amiga terms).

BTW you cannot delete something from history because that means that it never has existed and all signs in web (and on other places) are deleted. It could cease development or be continued just by hobby developers in spare time (like AROS and MorphOS). It would be more complicated because of the legal chaos around it but that has to be seen (when we know the court decision).

Again look on the amiga forums (68k) and what people are discussing there. Hyperion (or AROS/MorphOS) plays almost no role there.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 09-Mar-2015 at 12:17 PM.

@Overflow

actually there is enough interest in os4 as you can see from this and similar threads. alas the motivation behind it is absurdity of the situation. for example someone posts a link that certain company is insolvent, then there is immediately a number of people claiming against all odds that in fact it is not because someone quoted simeone else on some other forum or mailing list. another typical example is people sharing their surrealistic ideas about the is improvement on forums and expecting others to actually take them serious or even try to work on such. i mean once being a member of this forum its really hard to ignore these loads of nonsense without comment, see?

@OlafS25

Well, what you do is all so predictable tho.

You generalize about users not caring about NG. Then call NG'ers as selfimportant people.
The response from several NGers is usually very predictable too.
They will attack your comments, and someone will sling some mud on the MorphOS/AROS projects in return. You will rebutt and we have a merry go around for xx pages.

This happens every single thread.

Im more a fan of Dan Woods/Kookytechs approach;

"I enjoy all tech hardware/software and appriciate what it does/tries to do"
He flat out says that he used to be an AOS user, but migrated to MorphOS cause in its current state, MorphOS offers better functonality.
He doesnt feel the need to trashtalk other OSs in the process, just states MorphOS cater for HIS personal needs more than AOS for example. Fair enuff.
Others will have a different opinion, both completely valid.

Last edited by Overflow on 09-Mar-2015 at 12:29 PM.

@wawa

Oh I agree about the problem of insolvency and refusal to acknowledge the process of law.

Its been a bit to read how people mix "hopes" with "facts".

@Overflow

I have included MorphOS and AROS too.

If that people really attack then they should show me the NG-related threads on that forums. I have NOT trashtalked any NG OS including AmigaOS. Where have you read that?

BigD can enjoy whatever he wants. I only wrote that there are different interests of most amiga users and the "NG" crowd. Nothing else...

Last edited by OlafS25 on 09-Mar-2015 at 12:36 PM.

@wawa

Quote:

yes, but it is impossible. so the only option left to secure the position is to support open source where everything else fails.

When companies go bankrupt, creditors can force the sale of that company's assets (e.g. equipment, trademarks, intellectual property, etc.) in order to recuperate some of their money. Whomever buys those assets can either choose to use, resell or give them away. Perhaps a crowd funding initiative might be able to be setup to buy the IP, sources and trademark names and open source them so the Amiga community as a whole could benefit.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@RobertJDohnert

Quote:

Just because you make it open source does not mean it will be successful or that it will be a successful project.

No doubt. There is no guaranteed of anything when one open sources anything, however, IMHO, it has a better chance of moving things forward in the hands of the open source community than it does by staying in the trash bin of history in the hands of folks that don't either have enough money, skills, motivation, time or inclination to be able to move things forward with something that will likely not make them any money.

Let's face it, this is now a hobby OS that no longer has the opportunity to make anyone any money from it's continued development for a dwindling community of enthusiasts. Rather than take the chance that some corporate vultures purchase the IP for a song and for nefarious purposes other than to continue development for the enjoyment of it's hobbyist users, its new and final custodians should be the open source community that can ensure it's continued development, distribution and/or enjoyment.

Just my two cents.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@elatour

Quote:

When companies go bankrupt, creditors can force the sale of that company's assets (e.g. equipment, trademarks, intellectual property, etc.) in order to recuperate some of their money. Whomever buys those assets can either choose to use, resell or give them away. Perhaps a crowd funding initiative might be able to be setup to buy the IP, sources and trademark names and open source them so the Amiga community as a whole could benefit.

Other then the license from Amiga Inc, Hyperion owns very little, if any, "Amiga" Code. Unless of course Hyperion has been paying OS4 Devs for their work. I will point out a few years ago, OS4 Devs went to court to make sure their work remained their own property. Then the issue of any derived OS4 code from Cloanto's IP from WB 1.x thru WB 3.1 also will cloud ownership of any such derived code. Current owners of Hyperion could not make OS4 open source, they do not have the rights to do so.

As far as crowd sourcing funding for the purchase of Hyperion, I doubt you would have the time to achieve any significant amount of funding in the short time period. Nor would you be gaining much because most code Hyperion does have is only licensed.

Best hope really is someone comes in and purchases Hyperion as a whole and moves Amiga OS forward with a reboot.

_________________
Dammy

@wawa

Quote:

actually according to your priorities, you should refrain to using strictly genuine amiga workbench instead that alien replacements like exec-sg, cairo, so objects, pci-bus drivers.. stuff like that doesnt offspring amiga lineage, you know..

Sounds like Theseus' paradox.

@saimon69

Quote:

To me direct "noble" lineage is as useful as a refrigerator in the middle of antarctica, as long as the philosophy is brought on.

It seems to be important for most AmigaOS4 users...

Remember, there was 2 years gap between Pegasos/MorphOS release and first 4.0 develeper prerelease. Don´t search any logic in it. Looking back at "direct noble lineage" is as sensible as using 10 years old Macs for no-name OS or reinventing 20 years old OS.

@OlafS25

Quote:

if something feels like Amiga OS, looks like Amiga OS, behaves like Amiga OS and even runs Amiga OS software then it is Amiga OS

Better to use something that actually is AmigaOS.


Quote:

That sounds a little like blind brand following but you certainly do not mean it this way.

Why not, I´m known BAF.

@damocles

Interesting. If the developers do in fact own the OS4 sources and Hyperion owns the AmigaOS trademark name, then does that not raise the possibility that the developers could release future AmigaOS based on those sources without actually being able to use that name for it?

If Hyperion's bankruptcy has shown us anything at all, it's that nobody can any longer viably make a profitable business out of continuing to develop and sell AmigaOS, so I honestly don't think that that is going to help anyone in the community in the long run.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@damocles

AmigaOS is based on 3rd party work at least since 3.5. That is why it was relatively easy to add 3.9 compatibility to 4.x after Amiga.Inc/HaagePartner strife. As you wrote, Hyperion´s rights are based on licence. 3.x source code part of licence is exclusive, I don´t think there is any conflict with Cloanto´s IP.

Quote:

Best hope really is someone comes in and purchases Hyperion as a whole and moves Amiga OS forward with a reboot.

That would be only sensible possibility in case of final bancruptcy.

@elatour

Hyperion don't own the Amiga OS or AmigaOne trademarks. They just have an exclusive, perpetual, royalty free license to those marks.

Same for the Boing Ball logo although that's non exclusive.

They also have the same license for the source and object code of 3.1.

They are also able to sub-license the trademark, hence AmigaOne 500 AmigaOne X1000 etc, and the branded keyboards and mice sold by AmigaKit.

All the above rights are transferable although it requires the approval of Amiga Inc.

@pavlor

Quote:

AmigaOS is based on 3rd party work at least since 3.5. That is why it was relatively easy to add 3.9 compatibility to 4.x after Amiga.Inc/HaagePartner strife. As you wrote, Hyperion´s rights are based on licence. 3.x source code part of licence is exclusive, I don´t think there is any conflict with Cloanto´s IP.

That would depend greatly on what Acer - Amiga Inc's licenses call for. Until recently, I had thought Amiga Inc owned the rights to Amiga OS whom they bought it from Acer/Gateway which is not the case. As far as either of us know, it simply might be a object license and not a source license which would explain why Amiga inc didn't have the source code to give to Hyperion. See how toxic this all has become?

Quote:

That would be only sensible possibility in case of final bancruptcy.

Until then, we just have to wait

_________________
Dammy

@damocles

Quote:

which would explain why Amiga inc didn't have the source code to give to Hyperion.

Well, even Gateway didn´t have the source code... Last report about code existence is form the days of Amiga Technologies, when Olaf Barthel acquired OS sources and prepared them for further use. These 3.1 source codes were later used for both 3.5/3.9 and 4.x projects.

Last edited by pavlor on 09-Mar-2015 at 04:24 PM.