@OneTimer1

Quote:

OneTimer1 wrote: It's just an example, but AFAIK some encryption on WiFi is needing so much CPU power that it can't be used correctly on smaller systems.

And yet some people are using wifi on their 68k Amigas. How do they do it?

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OMG, I don't know I had to explain it. Multi user is also used for security of data, processes, task and everything.

And yet people are using Amigas that don't have any of that security and it's fine.

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One of the benefits is a system where faulty user programs can't corrupt system programs or system resources.

Programs that do that on the Amiga are quickly identified and either fixed or avoided, so in practice it isn't a problem.

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The AmigaOS is as secure as Windows3.11 or Windows95 if hackers where really interested in us, they would be able to take over all AOS3.x AOS4.x MOS or AROS systems with ease, just program some faulty picture datatypes and you could smuggle in worm or trojan horses with ease.

But they aren't, because it's not worth the effort. f they can trick you into installing some malware then they can do the same on a modern PC. That's how most scammers work. I once baited a scammer for over an hour going through the motions of installing a remote access program on my A1200. I even told him I had an Amiga and it didn't faze him. If I knew of a suitable program for the Amiga I would have installed it just to watch him flounder around trying to get into my bank accounts using IBrowse (assuming he managed to get that far).

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A pacth is not enough, a rewrite of the whole OS would be necessary.

No, it wouldn't. But why bother doing either? If you want a modern OS there are plenty to choose from. Amiga OS is for retro-computing, doing the same stuff you did back in the 90's.

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And the world has changes a lot in the last 30 years, in the 90ies an Amiga with iBrowse was still a good solution for internet browsing, today a 68k is not fast enough, 31 bit address-space is to small for modern browser, 4GB maximum file size is a joke

I must be dreaming then, because the 32-bit Linux PC I'm typing this on only has 2GB of RAM and Firefox v143 is fully functional on it.

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and no one outside the Amiga community cares if a JPEG is stored in a Amiga friendly size or if it is stored in full 2K, because your mobile displays it fast enough.

True. Actually nobody cares at all. But my mobile doesn't display it fast enough, which is one reason I don't browse the Web on it.

The amount of bloat on the Web these days is appalling. Programmers put a lot of effort into making it more efficient, only to have lazy content providers negate it. I run IBrowse with pictures turned off. 99% of the time they aren't needed, and if I want to see one it's only a mouse click away. My A1200 with 50MHz 030 struggles a bit now that everything is TLS encrypted (reproducing what it was like with a 33k6 modem!), but the V2 Vampire in my A600 is fine. Of course it doesn't provide a 'modern' web browsing experience, but it's good enough for the sites I want to visit on the Amiga.

There's no reason to insist that the Amiga do it all. These days used 'modern' hardware is cheap or even free. I have 3 desktop PCs and a laptop that were given to me. The one I'm typing this post on is mostly used for web browsing and email, another one is dedicated to watching TV programs, and the third one is my embedded development machine. The laptop is only for those rare occasions when I need Windows 10. I also have an iPad (which was also given to me) next to the A1200, to view websites that iBrowse can't handle (it also rarely gets used).

@ppcamiga1

You need to stop talking. Everything from your mouth is complete and utter rubbish.

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@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: this is what I always wrote

Well you shouldn't insult people for not agreeing with your ideas,
search for projects that are at least close to them, support them by:

programming tools for them,
giving out bounties for portable software,
write tutorials or post videos about it on YT.
spreading positive developments of them.

I have supported a lot of AROS bounties supporting further developments of AROS.
I would have done this on other AmigaOIDs, if they where open enough to
accept suggestion or support doing it on an OS based approach.

@OneTimer1

Quote:

It's just an example, but AFAIK some encryption on WiFi is needing so much CPU power that it can't be used correctly on smaller systems.

That depends on the wifi chip. Some are basically just a radio antenna and require that you have the entire 802.11 stack implemented in software, while other chips do everything on their own, including encrytion, and require only a minimalistic ethernet like driver. So how much CPU power is required depends on what chip is used, and whether it can do the encryption specified for a given network, in hardware.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: ... only a minimalistic ethernet like driver. So how much CPU power is required depends on what chip is used, and whether it can do the encryption specified for a given network, in hardware.

Today the CRC calculation of Ethernet are done by the I/O chips, so they can push ready processed data via DMA into memory, I was told SANA is to old for it, this might be the same with WPA2/3 encoding.

But as long as we can find patches, our AOS3.x will not become outdated. (/sarkasm)

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 04-Oct-2025 at 11:53 AM.
Last edited by OneTimer1 on 04-Oct-2025 at 10:23 AM.

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

this is what I always wrote everything in amiga os below graphics and gui should be cut off

Wrong.

AmigaOS 3.x has a shared memory address design like Win16, but AmigaOS is a 32-bit OS.

Like Win16, a lite-virtual machine is needed to box in AmigaOS 3.x's shared memory address architecture. That's NOT "below amiga os below graphics and gui should be cut off".

Emu68 is a thin hypervisor that survives AmigaOS's guru.

Windows 3.1 Enhanced Mode is a virtual machine supervisor and the basis for Windows 95.

Last edited by Hammer on 07-Oct-2025 at 02:09 AM.

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Anyone that does not like the A6000 seems kind of like a chump. If something like a Vampire V4 or A6000 came out in 1994 or 1995 nobody would be arguing and complaining against FPGA. They would just be happy they could buy a new powerful Amiga that had a AAA like chipset. The Video Toaster had FPGA chips and nobody complained about it.

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Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@DiscreetFX

Incomprehensible to me as well, friend DiscreetFX.

An A6000 running AmigaOS 3.2 (none of that derivative, divisive junk) is the best continuation of the original Amiga line that one could hope for.

Now, if only they would put it in a proper Amiga 500 case, not that horrendous cheap hunk of plastic.

ON WITH A PROPER 500 ULTIMATE
FRIEND "PERIFRACTIC" ARE YOU READING??? ARE YOU LISTENING???


/m!

_________________
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@DiscreetFX

Quote:

DiscreetFX wrote: Anyone that does not like the A6000 seems kind of like a chump. If something like a Vampire V4 or A6000 came out in 1994 or 1995 nobody would be arguing and complaining against FPGA. They would just be happy they could buy a new powerful Amiga that had a AAA like chipset. The Video Toaster had FPGA chips and nobody complained about it.

For the next generation baseline Amiga Hombre's CD3D and A1200 replacement, Commodore rejected Motorola 88000 due to its high price. This is applicable to any CPU solution beyond $30 CPU BOM cost.

Amiga Hombre's CD3D and A1200 replacement's CPU-SIMD/GPU/audio/NB/SB two-chip solution had $50 BOM cost target i.e. the original Xbox's CPU/GPU BOM cost target!

Due to Motorola's price structure, something as fat as 68EC040-25 or 680EC060-50 wouldn't be in the game console level BOM price range.

AMD and Intel rivaled the MIPS CPU price range for the original Xbox project.

References can be provided. DataQuest data is included.

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@agami

Quote:

agami wrote: I wasn't suggesting to use Apple's silicon. I was using Apple's SoP with UMA approach as one to which power players should aspire. AMD's Strix Halo APUs get close, but lack the UMA.

AMD's Strix Halo APU has UMA, but reserve video memory doesn't operate with Windows NT''s PMMU memory-protected paging. CPU MMU's overhead has a cost.

On Linux-based systems, the amdgpu driver allows for the dynamic allocation of memory between the CPU and GPU. In theory, this can allow for nearly all RAM to be allocated to the GPU as VRAM.

Info from https://knowledgebase.frame.work/changing-memory-allocation-amd-ryzen-ai-max-300-series-By1LG5Yrll

Last edited by Hammer on 11-Oct-2025 at 05:34 AM.

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everything in amiga os below graphics and gui should be cut off
and either reaplaced by unix or rewriten from scratch
it should be done by trolls like szulc, carlos, olaf szonwejs, agami, hammer, abbot etc
they may take micro mical as their mascot also

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

everything in amiga os below graphics and gui should be cut off

The only thing below graphics and intuition is exec, and they both depend on it.

What you want is for someone to reimplement the _behaviour_ of native Amiga graphics and Intuition GUI... there's a word for such - emulation. You want something that emulates the Amiga graphics and GUI on top of Unix. But what would be the point of that? To run what software? Who writes software for emulators?!

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: everything in amiga os below graphics and gui should be cut off and either reaplaced by unix or rewriten from scratch it should be done by trolls like szulc, carlos, olaf szonwejs, agami, hammer, abbot etc they may take micro mical as their mascot also

Wrong again.

AmigaOS's shared memory architecture is not designed for a modern OS's per-process private memory address architecture (needs PMMU); hence, the entire AmigaOS's shared memory architecture needs to be boxed in.

Without using the UAE's full 68040 (with FPU and PMMU) emulation, the problem is that anything faster than 68060 rev6 100 MHz doesn't have PMMU i.e. that's AC68080 (effectively 68EC080 V4 with FP64 FPU) and Emu68 (effectively a very fast 68000-68EC040 with FPU).

Unlike i386 PMMU and X86-64's PMMU, PowerPC doesn't guarantee a common PMMU standard i.e. PPC 440/e500's embedded MMU (Book-E) vs other PPC MMU.

AmigaOS 4.1 FE for SAM460ex (Book-E PPC) didn't work on AmigaOne XE with PPC G4. Book-E's supervisor mode is different from other PPCs.

IA-32(32-bit x86)'s embedded SKUs still have a common desktop PMMU.

Last edited by Hammer on 12-Oct-2025 at 01:45 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 12-Oct-2025 at 01:42 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 12-Oct-2025 at 01:37 AM.

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Quote:

Hammer wrote: UAE's full 68040 (with FPU and PMMU) emulation anything faster than 68060 rev6 100 MHz doesn't have PMMU that's AC68080 (effectively 68EC080 V4 with FP64 FPU) i386 PMMU and X86-64's PMMU, PPC 440/e500's embedded MMU (Book-E) IA-32(32-bit x86)'s embedded SKUs still have a common desktop PMMU.

Are you a real person, friend Hammer?
Are you?

And, @everyone else

don't you still get what pepikamiga1 is asking for?
Of course it doesn't help that he expresses himself in kindergarten English, but it's this simple:

he wants the exact opposite of what hammerbot understood

he wants Amiga's "style", say... the way windows behave, datatypes, the amiga filesystem arrangement, draggable screens and so forth, but with a new backend, not exec not any of the stuff dating to 40 years ago, and running on modern hardware, graphic cards and so forth.

Basically he wants Aros but he's too mentally challenged to know.

VVVVOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

/mega

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@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: it should be done by trolls like szulc, carlos, olaf szonwejs, agami, hammer, abbot etc

Not me. I'm fully retro now and aren't satisfied by anything less than original hardware.

My next project is a reproduction of the Squirrel SCSI PCMCIA adapter, which I need to run the external SCSI CDROM drive I just bought (and repaired). After that I will be making a WCS and ROM for my A500 to boot kickstart disks like the A1000 did.

I do have a V2 Vampire in my A600, which is the closest I will ever get to a V6000. But it's not getting much love. Sure it's faster than any Amiga I ever owned, but that just reduces the satisfaction of getting stuff running on it. Being able to play the Tomb Raider demo and Outrun arcade port on my A1200 with 50MHz 030 is awesome, a real achievement. Doing it on the Vampire is meh. I will never have a PiStorm for the same reason.

But that's just me. If you are happy with an 'Amiga' OS running on top of Linux then go for it! Just don't ask me to code it because I know nothing about Linux development and don't want to learn (at my age I might not even have time for such a project). I have nothing against anyone else doing it though - in fact I welcome it. Might even try it out myself...

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:

he wants the exact opposite of what hammerbot understood he wants Amiga's "style", say... the way windows behave, datatypes, the amiga filesystem arrangement, draggable screens and so forth, but with a new backend, not exec not any of the stuff dating to 40 years ago, and running on modern hardware, graphic cards and so forth. Basically he wants Aros but he's too mentally challenged to know.

Yes, AROS or AROS-hosted or even a Linux with an Amiga themed windows manager meets his requirements.

Things he can try:
Linux AOS Theme: https://lunduke.substack.com/p/make-linux-look-like-amiga-os
AtheOS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllable_Desktop#History
Commodore OS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_OS


But like Hammer and others, who are spamming every thread with comparisons of CPU architectures, he is spamming every thread and even attacking people who opposed his views.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 12-Oct-2025 at 08:08 AM.

Quote:

OneTimer1 wrote: @MEGA_RJ_MICAL Yes, AROS or AROS-hosted or even a Linux with an Amiga themed windows manager meets his requirements.

Ah, Linux, Linux!
No friend OneTimer1, I have to disagree on that.

Plain Linux won't cut it.
It would still be Linux, with its /etc /lib and stuff,
its package managers, and all of that.

At the very least it should be a heavily modified Linux kernel,
something that will never happen,
too late to happen.

In a parallel universe somewhere out there in the great tesseract of space-time, amigaheads in 1995 branched out a still unripe linux instead of starting from scratch with AROS, I can feel it.

LET US OPEN THAT PORTAL AND GO HAVE A PEEK AT 2025 IN THOSE ALTERNATE COSMOS

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@kolla

stoip trolling start working on zune

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 12-Oct-2025 at 08:37 AM.

@bhabbott

after switch to x86 or arm amiga os or any it clone
should be no more than 15 years behind win/lnx/osx

everything in amiga os below graphics and gui it is too outdated
and should be cut off
and replaced by unix or rewriten from scratch

it should be done by trolls like szulc, carlos, olaf szonwejs, agami, hammer, abbot etc
they may take micro mical as their mascot also

stop trolling start working on aros

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 12-Oct-2025 at 08:40 AM.

@ppcamiga1_subthread

He's not that deep. He's asking for a replication of what Apple did when moving from OS9 to OS X: A facelift on the UI, while rapidly bringing the OS into 21C by replacing the OS9 back-end with Unix, via the NeXTSTEP IP.

The concept of 'grafting' in software is not a novel one. Even Gateway and post-Gateway Amiga owners talked about Linux and QNX back-ends with some updated but uniquely kick-ass Amiga Multi-media UI/UX on top.

For some reason, to @ppcamiga1 MUI 5 was the 'bee's knees' of UI libraries. Coupled with the HI-Toro legacy of graphical prowess, his concept of a modernised Amiga is some market differentiating UI and graphics, grafted atop some Unix flavour with favourable licensing terms.

So no, it can't be KDE/Plasma, or AROS, or AxRT. He want's the banes of his online existence to work on grafting a unique modern variant of MUI with some FU graphics APIs, which macOS, Linux, and Windows could never.

Oh and the overall OS UX can't have any concepts, conventions, and paradigms older than 15 years: So Windows 7 and onward. Which is the same as today's KDE/Plasma, Gnome, macOS 26, and Windows 11, because not all that much has changed over the last 15 years.

Last edited by agami on 13-Oct-2025 at 06:46 AM.

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All the way, with 68k