Joined: 10-Apr-2003 Posts: 1161
From: Norrköping, Sweden
@fairlanefastback
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fairlanefastback wrote: @samface
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Perhaps they should add support for what they have a contractual obligation to develop AmigaOS4 for before they request more hardware options, don't you agree?
Well since their position is the contract has no bearing at this point as they now believe Amiga Washington was insolvent they don't really care what Amiga Delaware would approve or not. Their position is Amiga Delaware has no rights at all in this case. When it comes to the contract they feel that the insolvency clause kicked in, and now they are the masters of all that is Amiga OS 4. They feel no need to *request* anything.
This is a stand they didn't make until very recently when they had to enter the court room. They have had no such doubts about Amiga Inc.'s rights to the AmigaOS IP before, even applauding the transfer of ownership to KMOS in public statements and all. I think Hyperion are really going out on a limb with this one and might find themselves in a really rough spot in case their claims are false. It's a rather serious trademark and intellectual property violation, you know.
In any case, it's quite obvious that they couldn't possibly have counted on Amiga Inc. going insolvent or anything like that. The original plan was to develop the product and make money from selling it, then eventually hand over the sources to Amiga with the $25,000 amount just being a symbolic figure rather than an actual payment for the work. What I'm wondering is why that plan has changed for Hyperion, did they get greedy or something?
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Well, this would only matter for the issue in case Hyperion's claims about Amiga Delaware not being an appropriate successor to Amiga Washington as the owner of the Amiga related intellectual properties would be true.
Sure but you talk as if Hyperion should just kneel down to Amiga Delaware. Its pretty clear its what you want, but its not what they want, and unlike you, they have something to lose if they do.
Kneel down? WTF? Why would they have signed a contract that would make them have to "kneel down" in the first place? And no, they wouldn't have to loose anything by complying to the terms of the license agreement, they just have to share the AmigaOS4 sources *to the extent they are able to* with Amiga Inc. By complying to the terms of the license agreement in this manner, they could then go on making money from AmigaOS4 sales as before without loosing any rights. It is because they refuse to comply in this manner that Amiga Inc.'s wants to terminate the contract and take away the rights for them.
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Pushing the line of Hyperion's defense, I see...
Lets cut to the chase, the game is silly, you push the plaintiff's reasoning.
Nope, I am not. Then I would have to talk about Hyperion's infringements of Amiga Inc.'s trademarks and their theft of "first to market" opportunities, etc. While Amiga mentions and merely points out Hyperion's recent change of respect for the current Amiga Inc.'s rights to the Amiga IP in their court filings, it's the essence of my argument here. It's a quite significant difference in my line of reasoning since I'm not trying to argue who is right or wrong in this court case, I'm just curious to the reasons for this conflict when it seems to have been easy enough to prevent with just some good old fashioned "goodwill".
I mean, like I said before, they couldn't have possibly counted on Amiga Inc. going insolvent or not being able to pay that $25,000. So, given that what Amiga Inc. is asking for today is a part of the original intent for the contract as what Amiga Inc. should be able to ask for, why not just comply? To me, it seems as if Hyperion has seen an opportunity, something that was NOT a part of the original intent for the contract, that they are now trying to exploit, or am I wrong? Please do tell rather than reciting Hyperion's defense in the court.
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Cute little lines like that, whats the point? With "all they have to do is" language you tremendously oversimplify what the issues are and seek to paint Hyperion the bad guy.
No, it's really not to over simplify. Are you saying that they would have to do something else than share the AmigaOS4 sources in order to comply with the license agreement and Amiga Inc's demands? And please don't start with the arguments about not being able to give sources that only certain contractors have access to, they just need to give as much as they are able to, nothing more, nothing less.
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If you want to jump to conclusions based on these *claims* (read: not verified facts), that's up to you.
You don't have any verified facts that Amiga Delaware has any right to bring this action, yet you blindly support them.
Whoa! Hold it right there. First of all, by your own reasoning, even Evert Carton is a blind supporter of Amiga Inc. since he publicly applauded KMOS acquisition of the AmigaOS IP. Secondly, I'd really not say that *I* would be the turncoat here, given that noone ever doubted Amiga Inc.'s rights to the AmigaOS IP before. So who is blindly following who here, really?
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I'm not blindly supporting Hyperion. I'm the one waiting to see what further evidence brings for us to see.
Yeah, right... You're just waiting to see proof of things that was never questioned before. And that you raise these questions exactly at the same time as Hyperion are trying to pull this as a part of the defense in court is just coincidence, right? You've got a lot of nerve to insult all of us who has made the assumption that Amiga Inc. owns the AmigaOS IP. Even if Hyperion would turn out to be right in their claims, they are still quite bold claims that not even Hyperion themselves have believed to be true and, if you ask me, still don't. These claims are Hyperion's lawyers speaking, not Hyperion themselves, remember?
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Its simply a real world issue now that Amiga Delaware is likely going to need to show the judge they really do rightfully and lawfully own the IP.
You have yet to explain why we would doubt it in the first place, given that Hyperion themselves has proclaimed Amiga Inc.'s rights to the AmigaOS at numerous times.
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On its face, since Amiga Washington never paid Bolten's judgement, not even a portion as far as we know, its likely that an improper conveyance occured.
Why would the former Amiga company's debts be included in the sale of the AmigaOS IP? They just sold the IP, not the entire company nor it's book keepings. It's perfectly normal business practice. And don't forget, the company was not insolvent in the legal sense (IANAL and all that but AFAIK you would need it to be established as such by a court of law and no, I doubt an oral testimony would suffice), it was just insolvent in the sense that they couldn't afford paying their bills anymore. One way of getting out of insolvency is to, yes, that's right; sell off IP. Again, perfectly normal business practice.
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Putting that aside, its pretty simple, let Amiga Delaware show it was not, if they can. I'm open to see what happens next. But you seem bent on Amiga Delaware winning, no matter what comes to light either way.
Huh? Again, this isn't about who is right or wrong in this court case to begin with. It's about how it could've easily been prevented and the reasons for why it wasn't. What I think about the chances for the parties of the court case? I think in the end, both parties will no matter the outcome be the loosers and the lawyers will go laughing all the way to the bank. That's what I think. See how I manage to keep these things seperate? Try it some time...
Last edited by samface on 16-Jun-2007 at 03:11 PM. Last edited by samface on 16-Jun-2007 at 03:05 PM.
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