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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  First round goes to Hyperion
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PosterThread
AlexC 
Re: First round goes to Hyperion
Posted on 18-Jun-2007 10:28:51
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Jan-2004
Posts: 1300
From: City of Lost Angels, California.

@samface

Here are my interpretations, for what it's worth... (probably nothing)

Insolvency:
This is not something that needs nor can be decided by a court, and it can be a temporary or permanent state.
When there's less cash on hand than bills to pay you're already insolvent. Money owed to you and your assets don't count for squat at that point in time.
That state, if it lasts for a certain amount of time and doesn't look likely to change, can be used by creditors to ask a court to declare a company bankrupt, which then can be liquidated (in order to pay the creditors).
Of course if you can sell some assets, get a loan, collect dues or complete a transaction that puts more money in the bank than the sum of what you owe, you are no longer insolvent and cannot be declared bankrupt either.
That's why the Thendic/Genesi lawyer asked Bill Mc E. if AInc was insolvent. But the judges know that such a state can be short-lived and as a result of Bill claiming that money was coming soon, it became difficult to use his statement to request that AInc be liquidated.

In regards to the contract with Hyperion, the lack of definition around "insolvent" (for an hour, a month, a year?) creates a problem regarding its interpretation. Technically Hyperion can claim that if AInc became insolvent at any time, for any amount of time, the clause applies.
On the other hand, that's not the intention behind the clause. It was a failsafe put in place to garantee that no matter what happens to AInc, the rights to distribute the OS and machine under the Amiga name were safe even if AInc's assets fell into the wrong hands.
It's my belief that the purpose of AInc changing hands a few times was for the same reason.

Which brings us to the $$$...
Debts owed by Amiga Washington:
I don't know all the debts they had and still have, but from the statements on various court documents we know that Bolton P. is still owed tens of thousands and Bill Mc E. is still owed 750K (that's what he gets for paying himself so much).
These two outstanding debts alone, due to their age, support a stricter definition of long-term or permanent insolvency so Hyperion has them well cornered on that one, no matter how vague its scope was on the contract, and in my opinion should be reason enough for AInc. to drop the suit and seek negotiations rather than risk a judgement in Hyperion's favor.

"Deregistration":
As far as I know AInc. Washington didn't unregister itself, the registration expired on its own as it wasn't renewed. That doesn't mean the company ceases to exist, it only means it can no longer conduct business until its registration has been renewed.
It doesn't erase the debts either, that would be too easy.

So who's the good/bad guy?
With my complete lack of knowledge about what happened behind the scene between Hyperion and AInc. I can only go by what makes sense if I put myself in each player's shoes.
I must assume that AInc has a genuine interest in OS4 or they wouldn't have agreed to the AmigaOne partnership in the first place, nor requested (and financed?) the port to the IBM PDA, nor looked for new hardware suitable to run OS4, nor gotten into some disagreement with Hyperion and ultimately that lawsuit.
They seemingly only cared about DE/AA but to me it looks more like a way to make money NOW and stay afloat as they'd be long gone if it had depended on OS4 alone.
Ditto for ditching AInc WA and all its debts, it keeps the company from going down though the morality of that move can be questionned but the end justifies the means I suppose.
From that angle they don't strike me as bad guys, not as good as we'd like them to be and they can be criticized for the way they handled many things, but nobody's perfect and at least "Amiga" is still in business. (The current mess still is better than all the IP locked in Gateway's drawer due to M$ blackmail). At least they're trying.

Hyperion obviously has vested interests in OS4, and I doubt they made a lot of money on the side during the years that were spent on the OS, most likely they hoped to make up for it in the end, and perhaps in 2005 felt that end to be threatened by some statements or decisions from AInc, possibly about HW licensing requirements and took a more defensive stance which broadened the disagreement with AInc.
As their only history is writing the OS, they look pretty good to me. Trying to take the OS completely out of AInc's hand and preventing them from using their own trademark sounds a bit harsh to me, though they're just giving AInc a taste of their own medecine.
I want to be as impartial as I can but no matter how hard I try, I just can't find any negative thing to tack on Hyperion based on what I know so far.

AInc probably expected OS4 to be ready much sooner but many things didn't happen as planned and now that Tao looks doomed, the future doesn't seem too bright for DE/AA, so OS4 might have gained a lot more importance to them, and Hyperion probably expected new HW to get AInc's blessing without so many obstacles, putting them in a difficult position.

That's all I have to say...

(not really but looking at the preview, even after cutting out a few paragraphs it's still too long so I better stop there)

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AmigaOne XE/X1000/X5000/UAE-PPC OS4 laptop/X-10 Home Automation

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Replies
SubjectPosterDate
      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger18-Jun-2007 21:27:37
          Re: First round goes to Hyperionedponpon19-Jun-2007 9:47:42
              Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface19-Jun-2007 10:52:16
                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionedponpon19-Jun-2007 11:17:00
                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger19-Jun-2007 12:52:32
                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback19-Jun-2007 14:39:32


PosterThread
DonnieA2 
Re: First round goes to Hyperion
Posted on 18-Jun-2007 8:07:02
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2004
Posts: 516
From: Unknown

@samface

Quote:
According to Bolten Peck's claims you say... when was these claims made and how do you explain that it was deregistered if they still had debts?


How do you explain it indeed! Something doesn't smell right here and hasn't.. If there is wrong doing here I hope it comes out..

Last edited by DonnieA2 on 18-Jun-2007 at 08:12 AM.

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PosterThread
fairlanefastback 
Re: First round goes to Hyperion
Posted on 18-Jun-2007 6:51:25
#1 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4886
From: MA, USA

@samface

lQuote:

samface wrote:
@fairlanefastback

According to Bolten Peck's claims you say... when was these claims made and how do you explain that it was deregistered if they still had debts?



Ever since his judgement in late 2002 up until at least as recently as of last month:
http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/Time-LineOfChangesInAmigaIPOwnership.pdf
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003712151_kentarena18m.html

Oh and BTW, Bill conceeds that multiple people were left unpaid in the same Seattle Times article. He (Bill) even claims the dissolved Amiga Washington closed shop owing him money. So they ceased operations broke it would appear.

Quote:
McEwen said he's sorry for everyone who lost money in the collapse of Amiga. But he said he suffered, too: He declared bankruptcy in 2005, saying Amiga owed him $747,000, and has yet to recover the money.
Business records show Amiga legally shut down its Washington company in 2004. The new company — which McEwen said is legally separate from the old one and not obligated to pay those past debts — is registered as a Delaware corporation with headquarters in New York.


Regardless, how much could they have likely gotten paid for the IP if they can't even pay Bolton is certainly quite the intriguing question.

If you don't even know about Bolton you obviously don't know much about the history here. You instead seem to know a lot of very selective history instead, which you continually speak of. And remember, its Bill himself who confirms these things. Perhaps you should open your mind a bit more to some other possibilities of what has gone on over time.

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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

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Replies
SubjectPosterDate
      Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface18-Jun-2007 7:04:02
          Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback18-Jun-2007 13:29:39
              Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA18-Jun-2007 13:37:23
                  Re: First round goes to HyperionSpaceDruid18-Jun-2007 18:44:00
              Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface19-Jun-2007 11:06:14
                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk19-Jun-2007 11:46:48
                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface19-Jun-2007 12:00:11
                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk19-Jun-2007 12:27:39
                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface19-Jun-2007 13:03:31
                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk19-Jun-2007 13:09:27
                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback19-Jun-2007 13:26:05
                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface19-Jun-2007 14:58:17
                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk19-Jun-2007 15:06:21
                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface19-Jun-2007 16:10:41
                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk19-Jun-2007 16:15:56
                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface19-Jun-2007 17:17:47
                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk19-Jun-2007 17:32:47
                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback19-Jun-2007 16:34:38
                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface19-Jun-2007 17:34:12
                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk19-Jun-2007 17:40:06
                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback19-Jun-2007 20:37:30
                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionadiaux19-Jun-2007 20:01:53
                          Re: First round goes to HyperionT_Bone19-Jun-2007 19:40:02
                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionadiaux19-Jun-2007 19:59:09
                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface20-Jun-2007 0:53:12
                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionsyrtran20-Jun-2007 2:36:56
                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk20-Jun-2007 4:23:45
                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperiontomazkid20-Jun-2007 4:32:59
                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface20-Jun-2007 16:13:08
                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionstew20-Jun-2007 23:14:23
                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk21-Jun-2007 9:51:15
                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionstew21-Jun-2007 11:32:44
                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk21-Jun-2007 12:06:20
                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionhatschi21-Jun-2007 12:23:42
                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk21-Jun-2007 12:41:31
                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionhatschi21-Jun-2007 13:04:02
                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk21-Jun-2007 13:27:46
                                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionhatschi21-Jun-2007 13:42:44
                                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk21-Jun-2007 13:46:16
                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA21-Jun-2007 13:48:56
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk21-Jun-2007 14:23:44
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionhatschi21-Jun-2007 14:35:21
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionZardoz21-Jun-2007 15:10:32
                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger21-Jun-2007 14:40:26
                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk21-Jun-2007 15:56:46
                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionLou21-Jun-2007 12:25:36
                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk21-Jun-2007 12:47:50
                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionZardoz21-Jun-2007 15:08:32
                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk21-Jun-2007 16:01:33
                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionZardoz21-Jun-2007 16:57:28
                                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef22-Jun-2007 0:59:59
                                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk22-Jun-2007 1:54:51
                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionosco21-Jun-2007 13:05:54
                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionstew22-Jun-2007 1:03:15
                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk22-Jun-2007 2:18:55
                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionuboat22-Jun-2007 4:29:01
                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionCool_amigaN22-Jun-2007 6:28:13
                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionstew22-Jun-2007 11:31:43
                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk22-Jun-2007 11:47:26
                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionadiaux20-Jun-2007 23:10:29
                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionjorkany19-Jun-2007 20:15:16
                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback19-Jun-2007 13:14:45
      Re: First round goes to HyperionDandy18-Jun-2007 19:27:28


PosterThread
Zardoz 
Re: First round goes to Hyperion
Posted on 18-Jun-2007 4:22:17
#1 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@samface

These claims have constantly been made for years, the latest one being when this lawsuit started. He's not the only one either. Now, how to explain the deregistering, ask Amiga Inc. and their investor, not us.

Last edited by AMiGR on 18-Jun-2007 at 04:22 AM.

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