Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6071 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
14 crawler(s) on-line.
 139 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 clint:  7 mins ago
 RickSkid:  17 mins ago
 bhabbott:  22 mins ago
 BigD:  24 mins ago
 Diane:  27 mins ago
 VooDoo:  31 mins ago
 A1200:  35 mins ago
 pixie:  47 mins ago
 retrofaza:  48 mins ago
 DiscreetFX:  1 hr 9 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  First round goes to Hyperion
Register To Post

PosterThread
madtrekker 
Re: First round goes to Hyperion
Posted on 21-Jun-2007 10:05:30
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 271
From: Unknown

@umisef

Quote:
Sure, in mid-2004 Hyperion stated that things should be completed by year's end. They made essentially the same statements in mid-2002, mid-2003, mid-2005 and mid-2006.And even deep in 2007, we have Hans-Joerg talking about things he will look at once the official release has been finished.

[...]

The "we completed it in 2004" line of defense is ludicrous; Using it smacks of desperation.


While I agree that the attempt to back-date completion of OS4 does seem a little desperate, the actual date that OS4 was completed owed as much to external factors as it did to development.

OS4 was more or less considered ready to release to the public at the end of 2005, but lack of hardware delayed this. The "final" release at the end of 2006 was obviously a response to Amiga Inc's cancellation of the contract. Despite having said that OS4 could be released at the end of '05, the Friedens continued to use the "When it's done" slogan, so I guess there is a difference between "done" and "completed".

2004 seems a bit of a stretch but I guess they've decided to go for the point at which they feel OS4 fulfilled it's contractual requirements, but then the questions is why did not do a final release at that point? (I think that OS4 not being "finished" prevented a lot of people getting an A1 - I was originally going to wait myself, but gave in and luckily snapped up a micro A1 from one of the last batches)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
 Top | Parent

Replies
SubjectPosterDate
      Re: First round goes to Hyperionedponpon21-Jun-2007 10:21:22
          Re: First round goes to Hyperionhatschi21-Jun-2007 10:45:43


PosterThread
jkirk 
Re: First round goes to Hyperion
Posted on 21-Jun-2007 9:58:37
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2005
Posts: 3349
From: Georgia (usa)

@umisef

Quote:
How about "AI were in no position to negotiate a deal, because they did not have what Acube wanted;


yes they did, unless you are conceding that ainc didn't have authority to issue os4 licenses.

_________________
Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
 Top | Parent


PosterThread
Turrican3 
Re: First round goes to Hyperion
Posted on 21-Jun-2007 9:12:55
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 386
From: Italy

Disclaimer: IANAL.

Let's discuss now.

@umisef
Quote:
Come on --- would you really like to explain the difference between "Done" and "Completed" to a judge? Because it was "Done" (and announced with a big "It's Done" news item) on December 24th, 2006. Pretty much up to that day, the main OS4 developers themselves were posting "When it's done".

Actually, I believe Hyperion's line of defense could work, what they say about the features needed (and apparently completed at OS4 update2 time) as specified by the contract seems reasonable, and I don't think a judge is unable to understand the difference between a program that is complete feature-wise, but maybe not so user-friendly (so the need to refine it even if that's beyond the scope of the contract, that's Hyperion's fault IMHO).

If we have a problem here (for Hyperion), is the fact the judge dismissed the annexes of the contract, where the features were carefully specified...

Quote:
And if you still don't feel too embarrassed to make such a Clintonesque argument regarding "Done" and "Completed" [...] then you still need to explain away why Hyperion failed to pay the 3rd party contributors who had "pay at completion" or "pay at release" clauses in their contracts.

Again IANAL, and I've been reading this argument for a while. What I wonder is: how that could possibly have influence on the lawsuit, unless those 3rd parties sue Hyperion for not having being paid?

Quote:
And even if you are willing to do all that (and you'd be a braver lawyer than I'd ever be to try that), it would still be worthless, because the only benefit of the earlier "completion date" is the "must release a new version, or else" clause --- and AI can simply point at the lack of any code delivered to them and say "so how were we supposed to do this?". And as even Hyperion's lawyers are fond of pointing out, you don't get to use penalty clauses in your favour if the penalty situation arose because of your own wrong-doing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand Hyperion still claim they have not received the famous 25k for the buy back/in, but besides that, I guess the whole 3.x source code mess alone could well be enough for invoking a breach of contract on AInc's side.

So I'm not so sure the penalty situation arose from Hyperion's behaviour.

(and let's not forget the various A (W) --> Itec --> KMOS (A (D)) property changes which still need to be investigated)

Last edited by Turrican3 on 21-Jun-2007 at 09:15 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
 Top | Parent

Replies
SubjectPosterDate
      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger21-Jun-2007 15:32:40
          Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA21-Jun-2007 15:51:32
              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger21-Jun-2007 17:23:01
                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA21-Jun-2007 17:53:19
                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger21-Jun-2007 19:58:31
                          Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA21-Jun-2007 21:30:02
                  Re: First round goes to HyperionPyramider21-Jun-2007 18:11:41
                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger21-Jun-2007 19:44:35
                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef22-Jun-2007 1:04:08
              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef22-Jun-2007 0:43:14
                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA22-Jun-2007 6:54:48
                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef22-Jun-2007 7:39:33
                          Re: First round goes to HyperionAlexC22-Jun-2007 9:13:49
                          Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA22-Jun-2007 10:27:22
                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef22-Jun-2007 14:36:53
                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionssolie22-Jun-2007 16:40:40
                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionManu23-Jun-2007 7:12:16
                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA23-Jun-2007 5:43:28
                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionacefnq25-Jun-2007 9:37:18
                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger25-Jun-2007 15:34:19
                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA25-Jun-2007 18:25:58
                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger25-Jun-2007 21:03:44
                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA26-Jun-2007 10:00:03
                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionedponpon26-Jun-2007 12:40:26
                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionhatschi26-Jun-2007 12:45:38
                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionedponpon26-Jun-2007 12:47:47
                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef26-Jun-2007 15:56:45
                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA26-Jun-2007 18:09:23
                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 0:38:03
                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionSamwel27-Jun-2007 0:53:35
                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionFoody27-Jun-2007 2:29:12
                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCodeSmith27-Jun-2007 3:57:11
                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperiongregthecanuck27-Jun-2007 4:05:00
                                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionhatschi27-Jun-2007 6:31:51
                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionCodeSmith27-Jun-2007 7:29:35
                                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk27-Jun-2007 12:35:12
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionThe_Editor27-Jun-2007 14:15:34
                                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk27-Jun-2007 14:30:20
                                                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 16:00:30
                                                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 16:31:30
                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger27-Jun-2007 16:47:33
                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionDandy29-Jun-2007 11:06:09
                                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger29-Jun-2007 14:35:17
                                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionInteresting30-Jun-2007 18:39:56
                                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger5-Jul-2007 22:15:52
                                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionSpectre6606-Jul-2007 1:33:24
                                                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger6-Jul-2007 22:11:09
                                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionInteresting6-Jul-2007 2:00:51
                                                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger6-Jul-2007 23:06:44
                                                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionCodeSmith7-Jul-2007 0:10:24
                                                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger11-Jul-2007 12:27:49
                                                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionPyramider26-Jul-2007 21:03:06
                                                                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionDerfs26-Jul-2007 21:55:00
                                                                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionPyramider27-Jul-2007 17:43:36
                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionjtsiren27-Jun-2007 21:06:25
                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 23:42:55
                                                                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionjtsiren27-Jun-2007 23:51:05
                                                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionherewegoagain27-Jun-2007 19:39:54
                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionInteresting28-Jun-2007 0:07:56
                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback28-Jun-2007 0:44:00
                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef28-Jun-2007 1:02:34
                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionInteresting28-Jun-2007 2:06:09
                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionColin_Camper7-Jul-2007 9:20:08
                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionPyramider11-Jul-2007 7:58:29
                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionCrumb11-Jul-2007 8:13:05
                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionSwoop28-Jun-2007 8:38:56
                                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback27-Jun-2007 15:45:14
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger27-Jun-2007 15:46:43
                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionT_Power27-Jun-2007 23:11:40
                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionInteresting28-Jun-2007 0:00:48
                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger28-Jun-2007 4:24:06
                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionDandy29-Jun-2007 11:35:54
                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger29-Jun-2007 15:13:10
                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionDandy2-Jul-2007 8:18:16
                                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionPyramider3-Jul-2007 8:44:17
                                                                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperiond0c5-Jul-2007 18:01:27
                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 7:20:57
                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionCodeSmith27-Jun-2007 7:28:56
                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionAmigaHeretic27-Jun-2007 7:30:42
                                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 8:08:47
                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionAmigaHeretic27-Jun-2007 7:23:44
                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA27-Jun-2007 7:03:36
                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 7:55:24
                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA27-Jun-2007 8:29:46
                                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 9:03:08
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA27-Jun-2007 9:46:28
                                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 10:11:51
                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA27-Jun-2007 10:39:56
                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionAndroxyn27-Jun-2007 10:49:41
                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionBit727-Jun-2007 12:29:48
                                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionafxgroup27-Jun-2007 9:38:43
                                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionxe5427-Jun-2007 10:17:49
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionafxgroup27-Jun-2007 10:48:06
                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionKronos26-Jun-2007 16:44:03
                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionwhose26-Jun-2007 16:47:40
                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA26-Jun-2007 18:12:51
                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef22-Jun-2007 7:42:53
          Re: First round goes to Hyperiondirigent21-Jun-2007 16:55:39
              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef22-Jun-2007 0:53:23
                  Re: First round goes to Hyperiondirigent22-Jun-2007 6:38:27
          Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback21-Jun-2007 19:39:27
              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger21-Jun-2007 19:56:52
                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback21-Jun-2007 20:07:30
                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger21-Jun-2007 20:38:18
                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback21-Jun-2007 21:11:47
                              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger21-Jun-2007 22:12:50
                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionDonnieA221-Jun-2007 22:17:34
                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger21-Jun-2007 22:19:07
                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionjtsiren21-Jun-2007 22:21:53
                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger21-Jun-2007 22:23:53
                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionjtsiren21-Jun-2007 22:25:15
                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback21-Jun-2007 23:02:09
                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger22-Jun-2007 15:59:22
                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionpixie22-Jun-2007 16:19:28
                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger22-Jun-2007 16:52:54
                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionDerfs22-Jun-2007 18:53:40
                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionjorkany22-Jun-2007 19:27:16
                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionLou22-Jun-2007 19:27:19
                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionDerfs22-Jun-2007 19:42:32
                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger22-Jun-2007 19:42:08
                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionChip25-Jun-2007 13:05:48
                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface25-Jun-2007 13:48:37
                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA25-Jun-2007 13:54:32
                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionChip25-Jun-2007 14:13:29
                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger25-Jun-2007 15:24:07
                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionChip25-Jun-2007 18:55:02
                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger25-Jun-2007 21:41:26
                                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback25-Jun-2007 22:14:02
                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger26-Jun-2007 4:20:59
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionedponpon26-Jun-2007 8:58:15
                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger26-Jun-2007 14:28:31
                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionBoot_WB26-Jun-2007 14:40:06
                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger26-Jun-2007 15:01:42
                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionBoot_WB26-Jun-2007 16:58:23
                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperiondirigent26-Jun-2007 17:42:41
                                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionBoot_WB26-Jun-2007 18:14:19
                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger26-Jun-2007 19:47:55
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback26-Jun-2007 13:08:45
                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger26-Jun-2007 14:48:18
                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionLou26-Jun-2007 15:03:53
                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger26-Jun-2007 19:14:45
                                                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback26-Jun-2007 15:17:50
                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger26-Jun-2007 19:10:13
                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback26-Jun-2007 19:24:06
                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionCodeSmith26-Jun-2007 19:42:18
                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger26-Jun-2007 19:56:06
                                                                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback26-Jun-2007 20:15:02
                                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger26-Jun-2007 20:24:56
                                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback26-Jun-2007 21:08:33
                                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger26-Jun-2007 21:26:50
                                                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionSeer26-Jun-2007 21:32:47
                                                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger26-Jun-2007 21:39:52
                                                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionDonnieA226-Jun-2007 23:56:16
                                                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionDandy27-Jun-2007 11:16:37
                                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionDandy27-Jun-2007 11:11:12
                                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionsyrtran26-Jun-2007 18:04:49
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionRob26-Jun-2007 18:33:16
                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback25-Jun-2007 16:19:50
                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger25-Jun-2007 16:44:50
                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback25-Jun-2007 17:33:51
                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger25-Jun-2007 20:57:42
                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback25-Jun-2007 21:45:51


PosterThread
samface 
Re: First round goes to Hyperion
Posted on 21-Jun-2007 1:19:41
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1161
From: Norrköping, Sweden

@umisef

I can't say wether all of your claims are true but atleast I can tell you that this was about the most plausible and well reasoned description I've seen for the circumstances related to this court case so far. Most of it is inline with my own suspicions but I wouldn't dare just putting it all out there like that.
People are way too fond of trashing just about anything I say.

I guess you must be a software developer to get any respect in this community. A "simple" content managment systems developer, company owner and employed by one of Sweden's largest universities like me just doesn't get any respect. An oh, that's right, I don't happen to own AmigaOS4 nor MorphOS either. To "just" own a PPC equipped A1200 with all the trimmings doesn't cut it anymore and screw me for prepaying $150 for an A1 and AmigaOS4 with that "I am Amiga"-club thing and the AmigaDE PartyPack. Perhaps I should see a psychologist like fairlanefastback said, after all.

Sorry, didn't mean to make this about me. Again, thank you for a very well reasoned post.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
 Top | Parent

Replies
SubjectPosterDate
      Re: First round goes to Hyperiongary_c21-Jun-2007 5:20:11
          Re: First round goes to Hyperionsamface21-Jun-2007 5:59:16
              Re: First round goes to HyperionPyramider21-Jun-2007 9:28:03
                  Re: First round goes to HyperionSpectre66021-Jun-2007 11:09:20
      Re: First round goes to HyperionSpectre66021-Jun-2007 11:06:49



[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle