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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  First round goes to Hyperion
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PosterThread
COBRA 
Re: First round goes to Hyperion
Posted on 22-Jun-2007 11:27:22
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1809
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@umisef

Quote:
WarpOS support. Listed as essential.

Nowhere does it say that compatibility with WarpOS applications is needed/essential, only 68k compatibility is mentioned (read the summary of design goals). If you actually read what it says, you see that WarpOS was to be the PPC kernel, on top of which the 68k emulator will run, this function is provided by ExecSG so the task was complete. But even if we consider WOS compatibility to be essential (which is clearly not the case), it already existed in Update 3 as you mentioned, which is still long before Amiga paid their outstanding amounts.

Quote:
SCSI drivers. Listed as essential. Missing in 2004

The task is "Disk drivers for AmigaOne hardware" and if you read that chapter it's clear that it was not even decided whether there'll be external PCI card used on the AmigaOne as disk solution or something else, but original AmigaOne hardware was going to have a SCSI disk solution so a SCSI driver was planned. The hardware was changed to have onboard IDE instead and thus Hyperion developed the required IDE drivers. They completed the disk drivers for the AmigaOne which was the task, and by the way being a betatester since Jan-2004 I can tell you that the CyberstormSCSI driver was also completed by then. BUT even if we consider SCSI support for AmigaOne essential, it was also completed long before Amiga paid their outstanding amounts to Hyperion.

Quote:
P96 drivers for Permedia2 and S3 Virge. Do any of them exist even today? Listed as essential.


Those were already completed back in Jan-2004 when I joined the betatester team (and actually long before that) and there's a large number of betatesters who could testify that this was the case if it's needed. Sorry.

Quote:
P96 drivers for Matrox 450/550, G-REX, Mediator, CVPPC. Listed in a box labelled "essential". Do any of them even exist today?


Some of those are only listed as "possibly". If you read the whole chapter which I already quoted before you'll see that the minimum requirement is to have Permedia 2 and Voodoo 3 drivers. Anything else is just a proposal and you can't argue that for instance the developed Radeon driver is any less valuable than the proposed Matrox drivers.

Quote:
Warp3D drivers for all supported gfx cards. Listed as "important to essential". I believe in 2004, Warp3D support was completely absent from *any* card. Did not arrive until update 3, and certainly not for all the cards listed.


Correction: was not released to the public until update 3. You keep confusing the terms "completion" and "release to public". They're not the same thing. But let's say we consider the release date, then it was still released mid-2005, still long before AI paid their outstanding amounts to Hyperion at the end of 2006.

Quote:
OpenGL. Listed as "important". Never been available.


Only those listed as "essential" are contractually enforcable. However if we consider important as essential, OpenGL does exist in OS4 (e.g. minigl.library) along with several OpenGL games (Quake, Quake3, etc.) and this has been the case long before AI paid their outstanding amounts to Hyperion at the end of 2006.

Quote:
Tell me again that I "cannot argue", why don't you?


If you insist: You cannot argue Seriously: the only valid argument you have is Hyperion not properly notifying Amiga of completion. However Amiga themselves commented on OS4 development progress many times publically which proves that Hyperion kept them notified about the progress.

Quote:
Especially when the same annex has the following: "It is clear that the primary concern should be to get OS4 up and running on both the AmigaONE as well as the CyberstomPPC cards as soon as possible" --- half of which, for all intents and purposes, *still* has not happened, and certainly had not happened in December 2004


I can tell you that as far as I could tell all the tasks relating to the classic PPC version in Annex I were already completed in Jan-2004 when I joined the betatester team, and AFAIK Hyperion frequently sent updated information to AI regarding the progress of development. I think there are obvious reasons why it despite of that it was not released at the time, imagine an interpretive emulator running on an old 200MHz PPC, and consider how many different pieces of hardware/hacks people were using aside from those few mentioned in the contract to be essential to have drivers for.

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Replies
SubjectPosterDate
      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef22-Jun-2007 15:36:53
          Re: First round goes to Hyperionssolie22-Jun-2007 17:40:40
              Re: First round goes to HyperionManu23-Jun-2007 8:12:16
          Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA23-Jun-2007 6:43:28
              Re: First round goes to Hyperionacefnq25-Jun-2007 10:37:18
              Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger25-Jun-2007 16:34:19
                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA25-Jun-2007 19:25:58
                      Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger25-Jun-2007 22:03:44
                          Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA26-Jun-2007 11:00:03
                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionedponpon26-Jun-2007 13:40:26
                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionhatschi26-Jun-2007 13:45:38
                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionedponpon26-Jun-2007 13:47:47
                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef26-Jun-2007 16:56:45
                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA26-Jun-2007 19:09:23
                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 1:38:03
                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionSamwel27-Jun-2007 1:53:35
                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionFoody27-Jun-2007 3:29:12
                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionCodeSmith27-Jun-2007 4:57:11
                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperiongregthecanuck27-Jun-2007 5:05:00
                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionhatschi27-Jun-2007 7:31:51
                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionCodeSmith27-Jun-2007 8:29:35
                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk27-Jun-2007 13:35:12
                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionThe_Editor27-Jun-2007 15:15:34
                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionjkirk27-Jun-2007 15:30:20
                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 17:00:30
                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 17:31:30
                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger27-Jun-2007 17:47:33
                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionDandy29-Jun-2007 12:06:09
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger29-Jun-2007 15:35:17
                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionInteresting30-Jun-2007 19:39:56
                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger5-Jul-2007 23:15:52
                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionSpectre6606-Jul-2007 2:33:24
                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger6-Jul-2007 23:11:09
                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionInteresting6-Jul-2007 3:00:51
                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger7-Jul-2007 0:06:44
                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionCodeSmith7-Jul-2007 1:10:24
                                                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger11-Jul-2007 13:27:49
                                                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionPyramider26-Jul-2007 22:03:06
                                                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionDerfs26-Jul-2007 22:55:00
                                                                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionPyramider27-Jul-2007 18:43:36
                                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionjtsiren27-Jun-2007 22:06:25
                                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef28-Jun-2007 0:42:55
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionjtsiren28-Jun-2007 0:51:05
                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionherewegoagain27-Jun-2007 20:39:54
                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionInteresting28-Jun-2007 1:07:56
                                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback28-Jun-2007 1:44:00
                                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef28-Jun-2007 2:02:34
                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionInteresting28-Jun-2007 3:06:09
                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionColin_Camper7-Jul-2007 10:20:08
                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionPyramider11-Jul-2007 8:58:29
                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionCrumb11-Jul-2007 9:13:05
                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionSwoop28-Jun-2007 9:38:56
                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionfairlanefastback27-Jun-2007 16:45:14
                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger27-Jun-2007 16:46:43
                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionT_Power28-Jun-2007 0:11:40
                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionInteresting28-Jun-2007 1:00:48
                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger28-Jun-2007 5:24:06
                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionDandy29-Jun-2007 12:35:54
                                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionTigger29-Jun-2007 16:13:10
                                                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionDandy2-Jul-2007 9:18:16
                                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionPyramider3-Jul-2007 9:44:17
                                                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperiond0c5-Jul-2007 19:01:27
                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 8:20:57
                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCodeSmith27-Jun-2007 8:28:56
                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionAmigaHeretic27-Jun-2007 8:30:42
                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 9:08:47
                                              Re: First round goes to HyperionAmigaHeretic27-Jun-2007 8:23:44
                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA27-Jun-2007 8:03:36
                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 8:55:24
                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA27-Jun-2007 9:29:46
                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 10:03:08
                                                          Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA27-Jun-2007 10:46:28
                                                              Re: First round goes to Hyperionumisef27-Jun-2007 11:11:51
                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA27-Jun-2007 11:39:56
                                                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionAndroxyn27-Jun-2007 11:49:41
                                                                      Re: First round goes to HyperionBit727-Jun-2007 13:29:48
                                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionafxgroup27-Jun-2007 10:38:43
                                                      Re: First round goes to Hyperionxe5427-Jun-2007 11:17:49
                                                          Re: First round goes to Hyperionafxgroup27-Jun-2007 11:48:06
                              Re: First round goes to HyperionKronos26-Jun-2007 17:44:03
                                  Re: First round goes to Hyperionwhose26-Jun-2007 17:47:40
                                  Re: First round goes to HyperionCOBRA26-Jun-2007 19:12:51


PosterThread
AlexC 
Re: First round goes to Hyperion
Posted on 22-Jun-2007 10:13:49
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Jan-2004
Posts: 1300
From: City of Lost Angels, California.

@umisef

Some elements on the list were no longer essential/important as hardware/sources/documentation availability and priorities changed along the way.

IMO amendments should have been drafted as things evolved, to reflect the changes. I don't know why that wasn't done, obviously an OS and its drivers are moving targets, but I suspect that many things were discussed and agreed behind the scene that haven't been (publically) documented.

Also, it should be taken into account that many things have been completed a long time ago and never released to the public for whatever reasons.
Being a betatester I can't detail which specific items were withheld since when, and I don't know the reasons anyway, but my guess is the new PPC HW took precedence over the Classic, perhaps because of greater potential market size of and easier porting to new hardware like the Arctic and other SoC solutions AInc explored.

I doubt that AInc has any interest whatsoever in seeing OS4 on the Classic, and considering the limited number of PPC-accelerated A1200/4000 out there whose owners might upgrade to OS4, the sales couldn't cover the cost of development, so the ongoing work from Hyperion and other devs on the Classic version must be an act of passion more than anything else.
From that perspective I wouldn't expect them to bother with every single piece of hardware/software mentionned on the list, especially the ones which require reverse-engineering as that takes a mighty long time...

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