@bbrv
Good grief!
BTW, what do you mean "if the community had been more cohesive?"

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@umisef

Ah, well that at least explains why there wasn't anything else to find on it.

@thread

Isn't Mai now defunct or bankrupt? I know they haven't been heard from for a long time now.

And as for the purpose of this thread, I know I still have the electronic versions of a lot of the documents that came with my A1. However, I don't think those are what we are looking for, right?

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@logicalheart

I think it means that somebody should have learned out of this, so these chips never got used in A1's ... but the divided communtiy was rather busy spitting to each other instead of listening and learning, what gave Mai the opportunity to sell the chips again.

Last edited by Aminicle on 21-Jul-2008 at 08:03 AM.

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@DWolfman

Quote:

Isn't Mai now defunct or bankrupt?

Who knows, they may be insolvent...

@DWolfman

I added a bit more prior page #40.

Quote:

And as for the purpose of this thread, I know I still have the electronic versions of a lot of the documents that came with my A1. However, I don't think those are what we are looking for, right?

Methinks the thread took a historical turn frankly, nevertheless...

I think since there have been a variety of documents, both from MAI and Eyetech, he was referring to an idea of gathering them all in one place for general reference.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 21-Jul-2008 at 02:46 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 21-Jul-2008 at 02:45 PM.

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@Aminicle

Quote:

but the divided communtiy was rather busy spitting to each other instead of listening and learning, what gave Mai the opportunity to sell the chips again.

Somehow I don't think the Amiga market would have kept them going anyway. We're simply not big enough for that.

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@number6

Good detective work.

Remember this: http://www.genesi-usa.com/hdb.php

It started with the Tsi108, which became the Tsi109 after further modifications were made. In the meanwhile, the 7448 never was able to achieve the performance numbers required. Both the northbridge and the processor created performance issues.

All this happened as Apple departed for Intel, which gave Freescale further motivation to close down the Computer Platform Division. That happened in September 2005.

R&B

P.S. As a related matter, we did do some work with the Discovery V, but decided against doing too much as the 8610 was in the pipeline. As you know, we are developing an 8610 based system now that will be compatible with nearly all of the Pegasos/ODW software.

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@bbrv

Quote:

Good detective work.

Heh!

Well, -your- source is MAI and my source is Adam, who was gracious enough to tell the whole story during a period of time I saw as catharsis on his part.
Still, historically speaking, would be interesting to know Socle/IBM side of all this.
After all, IBM DID sell the GX to Alan claiming it to be a better chip than the FX. LOL.
As with all things, there is not just one villain in a drama.

#6

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@number6

Quote:

I think since there have been a variety of documents, both from MAI and Eyetech, he was referring to an idea of gathering them all in one place for general reference.

Yes, that was the idea.

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@number6

...oh, don't worry. We know the IBM side of the situation quite well. Did you ever see this:

www.genesi-usa.com/files/power.org/DP-WG.pdf

We were well into the development with the ULI/invidia northbridge when we had to switch to two Broadcom chips (EDIT: whoops! Time has a way of working on your memory. That was for the southbridge. The northbridge was the CPC945 which was an IBM/Apple chip. This particular chip came with a number of restrictions as the IP was shared between Apple and IBM).



The IBM Microelectronics folks were not much more clever than Alan. This created a significant level of frustration for us. We dealt with exactly the same people Mai did.

This is all from the same time:

http://www-304.ibm.com/jct09002c/gsdod/solutiondetails.do?solution=8712
http://www-304.ibm.com/jct09002c/gsdod/solutiondetails.do?solution=8832
http://www-304.ibm.com/jct09002c/gsdod/solutiondetails.do?solution=9854
http://www-304.ibm.com/jct09002c/gsdod/solutiondetails.do?solution=10567

IBM is driven by the business units that make big money and not by the ones that don't. Microelectronics is not a very profitable part of IBM's business.

Last comment: the point is that this community could be very powerful and successful if it could work together. Instead of looking for the crumbs that fall from the table, we should be focused on what we wrote a blog about today, which was really not about what we wrote, but about what was written about Cherrypal and others like them in the NYTimes. Of course, it is safe to assume we have something to do with Cherrypal...

R&B

Last edited by bbrv on 23-Jul-2008 at 06:38 AM.
Last edited by bbrv on 22-Jul-2008 at 02:53 AM.

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@bbrv

Quote:

www.genesi-usa.com/files/power.org/DP-WG.pdf

Nice... These would make for a very nice power user machine... Did you ever get anywhere with them?

tiffers

@Wegster

Yes you can get 512 SODIMM"S for the Micro.
For awhile I was having them made for me by crucial.

If enough people are interested I will have more made.
Wegster do a poll or a simple survey of friends.

The problem is most SODIMMS made today don't use the right format needed for older boards.

The one gig jobs needed a special SODIMM made called a stacker and would require no less than 32 chips. I had some prototypes built but never did a prodution run because of insuficient interest.

Most of the reason people have trouble getting memory for the A1 or any computer is you have to know what type of format the controller takes.

Here it is for the MAI chips if any one is interested.

Size(Mb)/Depth/Width/Row/Address Column/Address Bank/DIMM Size/Banks
16 1M 16 11 8 2 8 1
16 1M 16 11 8 2 16 2
16 2M 8 11 9 2 16 1
16 2M 8 11 9 2 32 2
16 4M 4 11 10 2 32 1
16 4M 4 11 10 2 64 2
64 4M 16 12 8 4 32 1
64 4M 16 12 8 4 64 2
64 8M 8 12 9 4 64 1
64 8M 8 12 9 4 128 2
64 16M 4 12 10 4 128 1
64 16M 4 12 10 4 256 2
128 8M 16 12 9 4 64 1
128 8M 16 12 9 4 128 2
128 16M 8 12 10 4 128 1
128 16M 8 12 10 4 256 2
128 32M 4 12 11 4 256 1
128 32M 4 12 11 4 512 2
256 64M 4 13 11 4 512 1
256 64M 4 13 11 4 1024* 2
512 64M 8 13 11 4 512 1
512 64M 8 13 11 4 1024* 2

@BBRV
Shame on you. Your old letter/propaganda is of no help for anything but stirring the pot. This table is the information that is needed for people to get memory. You had this information so you should of posted it even though the firmware and design of the PEG did not support the full matrix of the Atricia chip.

Kgrach

@kgrach

Old letter/propaganda? That is the exact text from 2002. The information you provided above came much later and after a good deal of wasted money -- not just ours, but all who tried to use the chip for any reason.

In March 2003 we purchased 408 A660BNGP Articia S Chipset for $16,320.00 ($40.00/each). We also purchased 24 A660BNGE for $960.00 (same per unit price). The final proforma invoice from Mai (which we can send you if you are interested) stated that the A660BNGP was "discontinued; last shipment." It also came with this text:

Quote:

1. Signed copy of the proforma invoice is required prior to product ship out. 2. This proforma invoice is valid 30 days from the date of this proforma invoice. 3. By signing this proforma invoice, the customer accepts MAI’s Standard Terms and Conditions of sale. Any terms and conditions herein, which are not consistent to or contradict to the Standard Terms and Conditions, the terms and conditions in this proforma invoice shall supersede and control. Customer agrees that the products sold under this invoice are in “as is” conditions, no warranty, general or specific, whatsoever. Customer agrees to relieve MAI from any liability for any damages related to the sale of the products under this invoice, including but not limited to, issues of delivery, product performance, or any other issues related to the use of MAI products in the customer’s applications. Notwithstanding the above, in no event will MAI or its parent, subsidiary, agents, affiliates, subcontractors, or suppliers are liable for any of the following: (1) damages for loss of data, or software restoration, or (2) direct, indirect, general, special, incidental, consequential, or punitive damages, including but not limited to, downtime costs or loss of profits and damages for bodily injury, arising out of customer’s purchase or use any of the products, even if MAI or its parent, subsidiary, agents, affiliates, subcontractors, or suppliers are aware or has advance notice of the possibility of such damages.

Mai claimed the A660BNGE solved the problems, but after testing and another April hardware patch on both versions of the chip, we knew that was not the case. We switched to the Marvell Discovery 2 and the Pegasos II was born. The first Pegasos II units shipped at the very end of 2003.

Those are the facts whether you like to read them or not.

R&B

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@BBRV

The memory information was in the original documentation provided to you from MAI on the Chip. That was the purpose of this thread.

The PEG1 inability to fully use all types of the supported memory came from one not all configurations provided for in firmware and two the second DIMM slot having incorrect design.

Some of the other Peg problems come from both design mistakes from inexperience and from a lack of complete information from MAI.

But the A1XE without the April is quite a functional board. Most of what problems the Blue bunnies blamed on the Atricia was inexperience and lack of full documentation in programing the VIA Southbridge. Sound, DMA, USB issues were totally unrelated to the northbridge even though the blue crowd claimed on every web site that it was. Slow memory access and unconventional PCI access you can squarely blame on the north bridge.

My A1 is very fast running OS4 and very very stable.

Kgrach

@kgrach. bbrv:

Neither the "red" nor the "blue" advocates seem to see the larger picture: the Articia was the first PPC Northbridge ever released with AGP support. At the same time, the VIA 686B was the only Southbridge that was available in the small quantities we could afford.

Sure, the Articia had shortcomings - it was rushed into production and was only on its first and second versions when it was fitted to the A1 boards. The different reaction to those shortcomings (and those of the 686B southbridge) was entirely due to the nature of the two "camps".

The "red" side had few hardware developers, and went for software work-arounds. The "blue" side had the bplan hardware people, so they went for a hardware work-around. "To an engineer with a CRO, every pin is a test point; to a programmer, every bug has a patch" (I just made that up).

The results of the software and hardware work-arounds were more or less equivalent. Both sides did well with what they had at the time.

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@tonyw

Quote:

either the "red" nor the "blue" advocates seem to see the larger picture: the Articia was the first PPC Northbridge ever released with AGP support.

Which was buggy and slow... to make it complete miss it seems that AltiVec can not access video memory on AmigaOne. And then there is this stuttering sound syndrome which seem to occur only on Articia based machines.

But of course because the specs say that it has AGP it must be good

But I have to admit when I had my pre-April Pegasos I enjoyed it very much. Despite of poor performance of Articia and its problems it was much better than my old Amiga 1200. Many (most?) AmigaOne users probably had similar feelings.

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@itix

Quote:

stuttering sound syndrome which seem to occur only on Articia based machines.

AmigaOS4.0 final/update4/july update does not have any problems at least not on my AmigaOne.

I think DaveAE traced it back to number of interrupts per sec ?or some thing, problem was in the end fixed in software.

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@kgrach

I'm searching 512MB for my Micro: I'm in contact with ACube but I haven't yet received a feedback.
How much would be the price for a 512MB sodimm?

@itix

Quote:

But I have to admit when I had my pre-April Pegasos I enjoyed it very much. Despite of poor performance of Articia and its problems it was much better than my old Amiga 1200. Many (most?) AmigaOne users probably had similar feelings.

Yes, exactly. My old towered a1200 was nice but definedly it was aged.

Much more nice should sport with multi-core, PCI-E monster, but it is not very realistic.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

I think DaveAE traced it back to number of interrupts per sec >or some thing, problem was in the end fixed in software.

Close. But that's VIA686B related. I think Itix and others were talking solely about Articia, and more specifically ArticiaS.

#6

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