@Wiffy

I never said the was no reason or logic to it, I have yet to see any evidence that any suspected operating system in the next couple of years will be anything other than amiga OS4.0 or a derivitive thereof.In fact the ONLY current and relative information we have about future operating systms is
Quote:

GarryH: We do not speculate on product development. We announce things we've done not things we are planning on doing.

and this
Quote:

GarryH: Over time, AmigaOS will become the enabling technology offering a true cross-device, "internet" operating system.

Seems fairly obvious to me that there is no available information on any "new" operating system, and the only operating system where the future is discussed in any way is the Current Amiga Operating System.

The current operating system being amiga OS4.0 it would seem that Amiga Inc. wants Amiga OS4.0 to become an enabling technology offering a true cross-device, "internet" operating system.

To paraphrase, the "internet" operating system which has also been called "Amiga OS5.0/AA" IS Amiga OS4.0 that has undergone greater development!

_________________

Edit: double post

Last edited by IonMane on 22-Mar-2005 at 12:54 PM.

_________________

@MikeB
Quote:

MikeB wrote: ... IMO in the future the Internet will become very dynamic, not much like your experience today where you still continuously reload pages to see the latest comments or news added to webpages, you wouldn't need to have the programs you execute stored on your personal computer ...

That`s exactly what I was afraid of and the reason why I wrote in "Amiga nxt gen maschines - The mystery even deepens":

Quote:

Dandy wrote: Regarding Internet OS: I recall to have read somewhere in Gary`s earlier statements, that his vision would be to (ab)use AmigaOS for a technique, that stores the data across the internet so that you don`t need an harddisk anymore. I remember the phrase that the user no longer needs to know where the data is stored and how in order to access it. I really hope I`m wrong now - but this certainly reminds me of Bill Gates`s vision, that the computing future will be, that you just need a terminal (with no OS, harddisk, Office tools etc.) to get into the web. The OS and all the applications you need to work with will be accessed via the web (off course you will have to pay a usage-fee for that), and the letters you wrote will be stored somewhere in the web - beyond your control (and you will have to pay for the storage service as well). The fact that AInc claims to own Capacity Networks also appears to point in that direction. If this is what he means with "Internet OS" then I will drop computing as my hobby (as soon as my old HW died), as I really don`t like to store my sensitive data anywhere in the web - I prefer the old way to have everything under my control. Then I will focus on my other hobby: repairing and driving old steam locomotives... [slightly edited]

Unfortunately nobody thought it to be worth an reply...

Last edited by Dandy on 22-Mar-2005 at 01:24 PM.

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy

Quote:

Unfortunately nobody thought it to be worth an reply...

OK, I will.

I believe certain private data will always remain to be in your control like you desire (for security reasons) or would either be heavily protected/monitored for abuse, like is already the case with regard to your bank account information. BTW in Japan people are already using their smartphones for instant payments / identifications. I believe this is a trend which will not be stopped and you are right that this is not without abuse risks and other difficulties.

A few years ago most people seemed sceptical when I talked about the services which would be provided by (today's) 'future' smartphones. ("I am only interested in making phone calls!" was the general attitude) However today many of them (or at least their children!) already own advanced smartphones with integrated MP3 player, snapshot camera, emails/SMS, advanced PDA functions and what not.

IMO within a couple of years time many will even own 3G enabled smartphones which will finally allow services like instant video streaming between users and other services already widely in use and pioneered in Japan.

That's how fast the general point of view can change!

@MikeB
Quote:

MikeB wrote: OK, I will.

Oh - thanks very much, MikeB!
Quote:

MikeB wrote: I believe certain private data will always remain to be in your control like you desire (for security reasons) or would either be heavily protected/monitored for abuse,...

Let`s hope the best!
Quote:

MikeB wrote: ...like is already the case with regard to your bank account information. BTW in Japan people are already using their smartphones for instant payments / identifications. I believe this is a trend which will not be stopped and you are right that this is not without abuse risks and other difficulties.

Yes - I know - and there already have been qiete many reports of people beeing
betrayed by that.
Quote:

MikeB wrote: A few years ago most people seemed sceptical when I talked about the services which would be provided by (today's) 'future' smartphones. ("I am only interested in making phone calls!" was the general attitude) ...

Yes - I`m one of them - and it`s still my general attitude.
Quote:

MikeB wrote: ...However today many of them (or at least their children!) already own advanced smartphones with integrated MP3 player, snapshot camera, emails/SMS, advanced PDA functions and what not.

Yes, my kids have phonies of that kind (mine is still one of those old ones that
are just for phoning and basic SMSs).
But not on a contract basis (I`m not stupid) - as long as they are not 18 years
old, they can only use their smartphones in connection with pre-payed cards,
which they have to buy from their own money (they get 20 Euros per month from
us), so they can get used to the costs with limited money at hand.
Result beeing:
They`re just using them mainly for important phone calls (Mom, I`m at my
friends home and will come home later - so don`t worry) and/or exchange SMSs
from time to time.
Quote:

MikeB wrote: IMO within a couple of years time many will even own 3G enabled smartphones which will finally allow services like instant video streaming between users ...

What for?
Just to boost the incomes of eye-related doctors and opticans, as soon as they
spoiled their eyes by watching movies/gaming on those tiny displays?
Nope - my wife and me educated them NOT to be THAT stupid...
Quote:

MikeB wrote: ...and other services already widely in use and pioneered in Japan.

We told our kids NOT to join any person jumping off a bridge - just by
curiousity.
Not as long as they can`t be sure that this would mean an advantage for them...
Instead we tought them to carefully weigh the possible risks against the
possible advantages before actually getting in trouble...
Quote:

MikeB wrote: That's how fast the general point of view can change!

That`s the problem with the "general point of view":
Appearently nobody tought the masses NOT to join any person jumping off
a bridge - just by curiousity...

I really would like to know your opinion on "I really hope I`m wrong now - but
this certainly reminds me of Bill Gates`s vision,..." - what do you think of
that part of my post?

Last edited by Dandy on 22-Mar-2005 at 02:55 PM.

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@AmigAlex

Quote:

I foresee a world where it will cost you a dollar each time you double-click on a document to open it, because it loads the remotely hosted textviewer which happens to have a pay-per-use fee attached to it.

Quote:

No thanks.

Well I think you can't avoid it. I think that it might be the future of internet and software industry. It all might not happen right now, but the change has already started. In not so distant future you might not own the copy of application anymore. You pay when you use remote applications through internet. You can see that if you think how client/server architecture has changed. World is slowly moving to direction where there is separate content providers for reusable components, applications built from those components and internet based services. That's how it will work in the future, I'm quite sure about it. And i think that might have something to do with that Amiga Inc Internet OS too.

The big question is do we want it all to be MicroSoft, or should there still be platforms like Amiga. I think it would be awful if MicroSoft would control it all.

Last edited by miksuh on 22-Mar-2005 at 03:35 PM.
Last edited by miksuh on 22-Mar-2005 at 03:02 PM.

@Wiffy

Quote:

The options are completely optional, you dont have to check box either of those. However the intent was to pick up on if the polarisation that I expect will happen within the next 2 years has already started

When you make a poll with the results already in mind the choices will almost always be slanted.

I don't see "polarisation" as an issue at all and my reaction to his interview can't be selected from your choices.. This is more like being asked in court.."do you beat your wife often" ...No good answer if you are not a wife beater....

_________________

@Dandy

Quote:

What for? Just to boost the incomes of eye-related doctors and opticans, as soon as they spoiled their eyes by watching movies/gaming on those tiny displays?

LOL.

No, IMO people will mainly make use of such functionality if this really adds something to their experience and is affordable. Some 2D games would do fine on such tiny screens and IMO it would even be nice to play some good online games with others while having nothing better to do while sitting in the metro / train.

But let's just take one random example.

Why instant video streaming?

- Imagine your wife is out to buy you a new pair of shoes as you don't have time to do this yourself (working). She calls you and points the camera towards the shoes she just selected for you. You like them but would prefer another color, she shows you the same shoes in another color and bingo it saved her or you a trip back to the store.

There are endless similar examples where this functionality can either come in handy or is just plain cool. Maybe you don't see your children for a while when they go studying in another city, would you prefer to only hear their voice every once in while or would you also like to see their faces?

There are many other uses for smartphones. For example it could even add to your personal security.

GPS (Global positioning systems) use satellites to pinpoint, with an accuracy of a few meters, GPS systems for instance have already saved the lives of shipwrecked people. Similar technology can point in realtime to your current location using geographic maps of the surrounding area, allowing you or your children to find your way back towards eachother or when you or your kids run into trouble call eachother or the police to provide their location more accurately.

Quote:

We told our kids NOT to join any person jumping off a bridge

Hhhm you shouldn't bring them on such ideas.

Quote:

but this certainly reminds me of Bill Gates`s vision

I don't take much notice of Bill Gates' 'visions'. He was wrong too many times with regard to future technology developments. The last thing I read about with regard to Gates' predictions was his views on Webtablets, which most certainly did not become reality within his 'envisioned' time frame.

@BobC.

Quote:

When you make a poll with the results already in mind the choices will almost always be slanted.

I don't get you, if anything if I was that negative then the results would be reversed, it seems Garry Hare has turned most people from pessimism to optimism.

The only two bits that you and another person seem to find contentious has both options sitting there ( AmigaOS4 vs Amiga Anywhere/V5 ), both 'poles' are represented. If you aren't polarised then don't choose either of those options. It really is that simple.

Quote:

I don't see "polarisation" as an issue at all

Then dont choose any of the polarised options.

Quote:

and my reaction to his interview can't be selected from your choices..

Then don't vote. Simple.

Quote:

This is more like being asked in court.."do you beat your wife often" ...No good answer if you are not a wife beater....

Sorry but thats bullcrap. Not one of those options bares any resemblance to that analogy and if you believe it does then you need to provide some reasoning alongside that nasty assertion.

@miksuh
Quote:

miksuh wrote: Well I think you can't avoid it.

Of course I can avoid it - as long as I don`t buy it...
Quote:

miksuh wrote: I think that it might be the future of internet and software industry. It all might not happen right now, but the change has already started.

I`m afraid you could be right with that...
Quote:

miksuh wrote: In not so distant future you mostly don't own the copy of application anymore.

Isn`t that already the case today?
AFAIK you can`t buy a copy of WinXP - all you can buy is the right to use it...
Quote:

miksuh wrote: You pay when you use remote applications through internet. You can see that if you think how client/server architecture has changed. World is slowly moving to direction where there is separate content providers for reusable components, applications built from those components and internet based services. That's how it will work in the future, I'm quite sure about it.

Well - as long as I have the choice, I certainly will not use remote applications through internet and therfor don`t have to pay for it.
If it turns out that I actually have no choice anymore, I definitely will drop all my computing interests and repair & drive old steam locomotives instead...
Quote:

miksuh wrote: And i think that might have something to do with that Amiga Inc Internet OS too. The big question is do we want it all to be MicroSoft, or should there still be platforms like Amiga. I think it would be awful if MicroSoft would control it all.

I don`t like beeing forced to do anything I`m not convinced of.
No matter what company tries to force their view on me - be it M$ or AInc - they will try in vain.
But no reason to worry - every morning millions of "stupid lemmings" get up.
And I`m quite confident they will find enough of them (not me!) to make enough money with such crap to survive...
But that then is the POOP (Problem Of Other People), as long as my lines are not going to be crossed...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Wiffy

Quote:

it seems Garry Hare has turned most people from pessimism to optimism.

That's what I chose, but simply "more optimistic" would have been more accurate. I could also have chosen "less cynical", but I do not consider myself being cynical to begin with.

@Wiffy

I didn't call it "contentious" that's your word but I was trying to point out the built in bias.. You won't get an accutrate "pulse" of the people at Amigaworld IMO because of it . And of course I didn't "vote" for example.

It is very difficult to make a poll that is "neutral", my point really.

_________________

@Dandy

Quote:

Of course I can avoid it - as long as I don`t buy it...

Well I meant that if one company wont do it, some other companies sure will.

But isn't it a bit too early to speculate if AmigaInc Internet OS has anything to doi with things like that ? At this point it's just speculation whitout any proof We do not know what it really will be, and they wont tell us until they are ready for it. After 1-2 years we might know more, lets talk about that then again. OS4 is more important now.

Last edited by miksuh on 22-Mar-2005 at 04:17 PM.
Last edited by miksuh on 22-Mar-2005 at 04:15 PM.

@Wiffy

I feel more optimistic after that followup from Garry. I have to say i was quite worried after that IRC session, but now it all feels much better

I voted "no change", but I mean that as no change from before the IRC, rather than from yesterday.
I find all this a bit strange to tell you the truth - OS4 is obviously the only thing that has a hope of making any money, why aren`t Amiga putting their efforts into getting more Amigaone partners and pulling in the same direction as everyone else, instead of pursuing this secret plan? Any move that takes the real Amiga OS away from Hyperion, ever, is obviously going to upset loads of people.

It`s easy - sort out some proper ppc machines, support Hyperion, plug the OS, forget putting money/effort into dead-end AA. These are the things to please existing users and get some back as well.

_________________
Fraggle

- insert profound text here -

@Wiffy

Quote:

How do you feel about what Garry said, has it changed your mind

I'm a bit more optimistic after having just read the clarification from Garry Hare, than I was a day ago. I won't top it off with a dancing 'nana though.

And I'm still not about to 'take sides' between OS4 and "OS5." I'll enjoy OS4 for as long as I can, and we'll see what the future brings. At least we know now that there is more of a future to OS4 than a 4.0 release.


As for the cynicism, I don't think a lifetime of being a cynical a**e-h**e will suddenly wash away from a mere newspost in an on-line forum. Sorry.

_________________
A1G4XE, OS4-pre

@Wiffy

I can sincerely say that there's no change here. Or at least there was none when I started writing this post. More about this later.

My impressions before the interview:

AmigaOS:
Eyetech have hardware
Hyperion are doing software
Amiga Inc stay out of the picture, except as managers of the brandname. (There is some unknown clause in some contract that says something we're not at liberty to know. Ben Hermans says it's cosher, so I've decided not to freak out over it. I can always track him down and amputate his knee caps if it isn't, right?)

AmigaAnywhere:
Eyetech don't care
Hyperion don't care
Amiga Inc are working on it, maybe something good will come of it

My impressions after the interview:
All of the above, EXCEPT on thing, which is this:

Amiga Inc have been accused of not actually setting any of the "high standards of quality assurance" or whatever it was they said back when they announced they would not do hardware, but instead license out to anyone who could prove they were "worthy" of the brand name (my wording, anyone who takes ANYTHING out of context and uses it against me or anyone else at a later point will be executed. Or at least LoadSeg'ed). The reasons for this critique has been Eyetechs hardware having bugs, Eyetechs dealers not being completely up to snuff etc. Garry now says he isn't amused and is taking it up with Eyetech. I must say I think this is good. Hopefully they'll do a couple of more things and maybe we one day can see a certain petitoner proved wrong.

So if at all, I am _slightly_ more positive now. Not because it affects me, but because anything that goes toward shutting trolls up is nice in my opinion. I haven't quite decided whether or not the opinion is humble yet, but we'll see.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@MikeB
Quote:

MikeB wrote: No, IMO people will mainly make use of such functionality if this really adds something to their experience and is affordable. Some 2D games would do fine on such tiny screens and IMO it would even be nice to play some good online games with others while having nothing better to do while sitting in the metro / train.

Well - in a few weeks time I`ll be 48 years old and my eyes already have lost quiete a bit of their former performance.
I have to wear glasses all the time (as a result of my computing profession) - while driving cars, while I`m reading or sitting in front of an computer and while beeing out in the sun.
And believew me - it really is no fun, if you have to change your glasses all the time, depending on the distance you`re looking at something.
When I was a young boy and my eyes still were good, I often was reading while it was already dawning and forgot to switch the light on.
My parents always told me: "Boy, you`re going to spoil your eyes!"
I always laughed at them, as it did not spoil my eyes - at least not at once.
Later I got an IT job (my eyes still beeing good).
But in the course of the years I very well noticed that the performance of my eyes was indeed fading.

And now I leave that to you - you can laugh at my anxiety regarding your eyes (as I did with my parents) and possibly make the same experience as me, or you can treat your eyes more carefully than I did and still have good eyes when you`re getting 48 (but please use your brain for that decision - do not blindly and happily adopt every crap!)...
Quote:

MikeB wrote: But let's just take one random example. Why instant video streaming? - Imagine your wife is out to buy you a new pair of shoes as you don't have time to do this yourself (working). She calls you and points the camera towards the shoes she just selected for you. You like them but would prefer another color, she shows you the same shoes in another color and bingo it saved her or you a trip back to the store.

I understand what you mean - well - you couldn`t know that - but you choose one of the worst examples for me:
The situation you described will never happen in my real life, as my shoe-size is 49 and a half (German size - in GB size this would be 13 and a half, IIRC) and shoes with that size are both: hard to find and quiete expensive.
And if a pair of shoes (labeled as GB 13.5 or D 49.5) was manufactured in Italy for example, I would need them in size 51 (whatever that is in GB size).
So I really have to go to the shops on my own, and when I finally found a pair of shoes that I like and that fit, there mostly is very little choice regarding the colour - either I take what`s availabe or can start to search again...
Quote:

MikeB wrote: There are endless similar examples where this functionality can either come in handy or is just plain cool.

Hummmm - well - I never spent any money just to be cool - my shoes are waaaayyyy too expensive for that...

Quote:

MikeB wrote: Maybe you don't see your children for a while when they go studying in another city, would you prefer to only hear their voice every once in while or would you also like to see their faces?

Errmmmm - the imagination alone that I would have to change the position of my phonie at a rate of - lets say 50 Hz - between my ear and in front of my face makes me shiver!
Or how can you make a video stream of yourself while having the phonie at your ear for talking???

No - seriously - we already use our computers in connection with webcams and voice-over-IP for that and have the advantage to see each other in a reasonable size without having to use a microscope as well as the the advantage of lower costs (once you have the HW)!
Quote:

MikeB wrote: There are many other uses for smartphones.

If they make as much sense as the examples above I can easily live without them!
Quote:

MikeB wrote: For example it could even add to your personal security. GPS (Global positioning systems) use satellites to pinpoint, with an accuracy of a few meters, GPS systems for instance have already saved the lives of shipwrecked people. Similar technology can point in realtime to your current location using geographic maps of the surrounding area,

That`s already possible today with my old fasioned phonie, as long as it`s switched on.
Your point beeing?
(c`mon, convince me!)

Quote:

MikeB wrote: allowing you or your children to find your way back towards eachother

(confused)
Are we talking about phonies or navigation systems for cars?
Quote:

MikeB wrote: or when you or your kids run into trouble call each other or the police to provide their location more accurately.

Sorry - but both already works with their current phonies - so what would we need these new techniques for?
Why should we spend money for features we already have?
Just to be cool???
Quote:

MikeB wrote: Quote: Dandy wrote: We told our kids NOT to join any person jumping off a bridge... Hhhm you shouldn't bring them on such ideas.

That`s exactly why we warned them - to keep them away from such ideas...
Quote:

MikeB wrote: I don't take much notice of Bill Gates' 'visions'. He was wrong too many times with regard to future technology developments. ...

Hummmmm - maybe my "paranoia" is the result of me beeing born in eastern Germany and grown up in western Germany (as a result of the NAZI terror) - but IIRC the world between 1933 and 1945 didn`t take to much notice of Adolf Hitlers visions, eigther.
When they did it was too late and 60 million (!) people had to die by the war he started on his visions ...
(Not that I`m going to say that Bill Gates`s visions are going to kill 60 million people - this was just meant to remind you where "not taking much notice of" could lead to...)

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy

Heck, if you think YOU'RE old-fashioned when it comes to phones, what about me? I don't have a phone at all! I don't have a TV either.

This summer, I was on a 3 week bicycle holiday through Sweden and Bornholm (had no cell phone with me), and my boss STILL managed to track me down to discuss something over the phone. I was mightily impressed, it was almost like the opening of Mission Impossible 2

If I told you were I was going, it wouldn't be a vacation. Only problem is, I REALLY don't want to find a new spot for my tent this year, but now someone knows where it is. So I'm aiming for more time on the road this summer. Let's see them track a moving target somewhere on the 800km of open road between Strömstad and Ystad. Muhaha.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@Dandy

Let me know when Bill Gates has a vision where he gasses Jews, invades random countries and takes Deutchland Uber Alles too seriously.

When that happens, I think Ill emigrate to a small island without hotspot connectivity.