@Acill

Quote:

I had to say I've lost all interest in it. I got sick of waiting of the A1 and got a Pegasos II back when they were first released. Since then I've never looked back. I may yet come back after the final comes out and a more up to date version of the A1 is released, but for now I have to say the Pegasos offers a lot more for the money and has 100X more software for it.

Sorry that you lost all interest . . . but you are still here and that is a good thing thanks.

I do hope that you will take a look at OS4 when the final comes out.

As you pointed out the number of sofware for the time being is in favor of the Pegasos, but here is hoping that we will see more apps down the road for OS4. As for me I am able to run the software that I have been using from my 4000 OS3.9 plus some new stuff, so I am very happy with the current OS4.

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

Are you frustrated with the current state of OS4?

Not at all, I think Hyperion is doing a great job. I am looking forward to the next update of the OS, the next "update" after that might be the final release.

@Acill

100x ? , so you have over 3000 morphos applications*games/demos ?

ok, i wonder where you found thoose.

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@Toaks

I knew someone had to pipe up on something like that. I was
respectfull and the point is its a fact we have more software. that
was all I said and I stand by it still.

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

Are you frustrated with OS4

Not in the slightest!

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@Acill

Are you talking about native MorphOS software?

I belive whit the next AmigaOS4.0 update it will run side by side, if your talking about classic Amiga programs, ixmul, warpup, powerup, warp3D, I think some one is even working on MosEmu.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 04-Apr-2005 at 03:36 AM.

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Quote:

Bobsonsirjonny wrote: @mlehto ok - having to select update when you have copied something into a directory...

Hi Bobsonsirjonny,



Well, that was when the OS was a fresh new idea, and (CPU) resources were more limited, and I'm sure that deadlines probably always overtook certain new features from being included.

Right now, they're in re-processing mode, and not overly into enhancements, although there are many, I assume.


Quote:

Bobsonsirjonny wrote: having to write scripts to do xyz when a gui is used on other systems. Other systems are easier to use. I know its still in beta but there is this nuts attitude that the hard way is the best way - is the leet way.. Why?

It's a control thing. There are just things that need to be addressed by scripts, that aren't conveniently done through windowing, and in particular certain jobs that need to be done over and over again, where in windowing, it has to always be done manually.


Besides, that's FUN. You want to get in there and see what makes it tick!!!!

In linux, it's NOT 'fun'.

In windross it's like, well, "try this", now, "have fun re-installing, if I even let you do it, anyway!"


On the Atari 520 and 1040, the DOS/CLI just wasn't enough a part of the windowing environment for it to work for me.


I feel that AOS has the perfect relationship of Shell interface, and windowing, it just needs some new commands to catch up to where the other graphical OS's have gone.


Think of it this way, scripts will NEVER be gone.


I picked:
"Yes - but Im still staying around."

Because the alternatives are totally unaccpetable.

Frustration is: Need Amiga Fantasy case, faster CPU, new MB, lower price, and it's a tragedy that AOS4.0 hadn't been done by summer 2004.


But, no one can be blamed for this. There is a lack of budget, that's all.


I'm in it for the long, long, long, long run!!!!!!!

@Acill

"has 100X
more software for it."

Oh yes. Where?

IMHO AmigaOS 4 and MorphOS are in the same boat when it comes to new software releases. Both platforms need desperately more developers.

@Bobsonsirjonny

Don't like scripting?
So you want newbie friendly then?

Then you should consider the fact that hardly anyone who uses an application for more than 3 months SHOULD be considered a newbie. If a person spends 3 months using an application and it DOESN'T start opening up new ways to cut down the time required to do some simple things, like EPROM or microcontroller programmer applications for Windows, these are among the truely horrible examples where you EACH and EVERY GOD DAMN time you want to write a hex file into a flash you need to start by going to file->open, browse to the file, click on programmer->configure and set some options, then click on programmer->download and set some more options, then click on "download" and HOPE it doesn't just tell you to get lost. We were told to get lost when using MPlab last week . Compare this to writing a 3 line batch file ONCE and then just double-clicking it to get the application loaded with correct settings for that file (using an in-house developed DOS application that also compiles on Linux so I can use it myself).

I mean COME ON, how can you NOT see the benefits? And seriously, it's almost NEVER the case that you CAN'T use the same features from a GUI in Amiga applications. This is where AmigaOS with the AREXX interface (not necessarily the language, but the port) beats both Windows AND Linux by about a mile. Linux is VERY good for scripting, but you don't have the same application available in both a GUI and a shell equivalent. So you need to learn two applications, making it a significantly steeper learning curve. Windows SUCKS on scripting, so you're forever stuck doing repetitive stuff manually.

All we need to capture the end users is some software to help you design AREXX scripts. Like, scan all ports and list them, if the user wants to know more about an AREXX port he finds there should be a collection of readme files documenting all know APIs the same way we do autodocs for libraries.

So, any takers? I see this as a must-have application, because when Joe Average sees his neighbour doing the same things he does (photo editing, thumb nail generating for web archives, audio editing etc etc) but with half (or less) the amount of work to do each actio, he's going to be interested.

Most people actually DON'T stay clueless forever, and you can read into that whatever you want

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Quote:

Helgis wrote: @Bobsonsirjonny Windows is a dying platform. Linux has become the alternative OS, and AmigaOS is again going to be the number one choice for most of us....no doubt

...and pigs might fly.

Linux?

@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote: @Bobsonsirjonny Don't like scripting? So you want newbie friendly then? Then you should consider the fact that hardly anyone who uses an application for more than 3 months SHOULD be considered a newbie. If a person spends 3 months using an application and it DOESN'T start opening up new ways to cut down the time required to do some simple things, like EPROM or microcontroller programmer applications for Windows, these are among the truely horrible examples where you EACH and EVERY GOD DAMN time you want to write a hex file into a flash you need to start by going to file->open, browse to the file, click on programmer->configure and set some options, then click on programmer->download and set some more options, then click on "download" and HOPE it doesn't just tell you to get lost. We were told to get lost when using MPlab last week . Compare this to writing a 3 line batch file ONCE and then just double-clicking it to get the application loaded with correct settings for that file (using an in-house developed DOS application that also compiles on Linux so I can use it myself). I mean COME ON, how can you NOT see the benefits? And seriously, it's almost NEVER the case that you CAN'T use the same features from a GUI in Amiga applications. This is where AmigaOS with the AREXX interface (not necessarily the language, but the port) beats both Windows AND Linux by about a mile. Linux is VERY good for scripting, but you don't have the same application available in both a GUI and a shell equivalent. So you need to learn two applications, making it a significantly steeper learning curve. Windows SUCKS on scripting, so you're forever stuck doing repetitive stuff manually. All we need to capture the end users is some software to help you design AREXX scripts. Like, scan all ports and list them, if the user wants to know more about an AREXX port he finds there should be a collection of readme files documenting all know APIs the same way we do autodocs for libraries. So, any takers? I see this as a must-have application, because when Joe Average sees his neighbour doing the same things he does (photo editing, thumb nail generating for web archives, audio editing etc etc) but with half (or less) the amount of work to do each actio, he's going to be interested. Most people actually DON'T stay clueless forever, and you can read into that whatever you want

Back in 1990 whatever I liked editing my user-startup. Assigning things - I liked doing that - but times have moved on. Sure the option should be there - but for general day to day stuff why should you need to write a script?

My frustration isnt so much with OS 4 - although I am ####ed off about being lied to, about all the delays and all the fighting. We should have had it years ago. To be honest I can only see it existing as a PDA OS. I would be interested then. I'm just jaded and throurouly BORED. I've wasted the last 11 - 12 years of my life. I used to get beaten up in school for using Amiga's. Why? It's just a bloody computer. I should have been out enjoying the sunshine.

My frustration is born out of the lack of corner stone apps. IMHO Amiga inc SHOULD be funding the development, or adaptation of the following: A browser, a office suite and email client. These are defacto, non negotiable NEEDED things.

They are corner stone applications. The most basic of basic.

Windows inspite of its bloat allows me to get on and do stuff. I've seen other people's Amiga OS4 installations and have been really impressed - I was not aware though at the amount of work they needed to do in order to get their OS4 install to that state.

Personally I cant be arsed to do the work. Amiga OS was Plug and Play - it's too far behind other desktop OS's. PC hardware is so fast now as to make the advantage of Amiga's small footprint null and void. From what I have read their are no real technical advantages that Amiga OS has over other Operating Systems - except for perhaps it's internal messaging which is now no longer all that relevant because we have processors that are so DAMN fast.

OS 4 Should have been out years ago. They should have done a large deal with some organisation to kit them out with OS 4 for a specific task - eg information booths, POS systems etc. A niche should have been created.

The only logical place that I can see Amiga OS having any advantage is in PDA form. That I would love to see - but their are many in the community who are so up their own behinds that they would turn their nose up at such a thing.

Amiga is dead, long live Amiga.

@Bobsonsirjonny

@Bobsonsirjonny

Half a day in Windows and I'll be in tears over how bloody primitive it is. MacOS X is much, much better but at the end of the day I'll turn on my A1 with OS4 and enjoy computing.

Since my powerbook is currently being repaired I'm doing all my work on the A1 and have no problems with it. Nor have I had to make any particular effort. When I have tinkered it's been because I felt like it (like tuning user-startup etc).

As for email clients we have two clients that both work very well. SimpleMail even has IMAP-support, bayesian spam filtering and whatnot. In fact I prefer using it over e.g. Mail.app which I only use when I have to.

Yes, we can certainly use an office suite and a better browser. However both are being worked on and till then I can get around with AWeb+IBrowse and do my word processing in AmigaWriter.

And yes, AmigaOS was plug-n-play. Just like today. Explain to me, if you will, the need for a registry database (which corrupts over time) and an entire part of an OS dedicated to removing programs. Windows is a mess, a nightmare to maintain (if you're a power user and actually DO stuff with your machine) and generally annoying.
AmigaOS, on the other hand, tends to just work. Yes, some programs are ill-behaved and drop stuff where they shouldn't, but it's not as if it's a major problem.

Sometimes I wonder if it's just because you don't actually HAVE any apps for your Amiga that you whine about not being able to do stuff. Is it because you can't find stuff or don't you want to buy things?

My Amiga does word processing, cd/dvd writing, music playback, movie playback, graphics editing, PDF viewing, mail, surfing, gaming and whatever else I need it to do. It's also far easier to maintain than a Windows machine that should do the same things (even if it would do surfing better). Before you think I'm just going on about this without knowing the first thing about Windows, I'll say this: I make a very conscious choice to not use Windows because I *know* Windows well enough.
On the other hand, yes... AmigaOS still has a long way to go. A lot of stuff needs cleaning up. More features needs to be added and so on. But at the end of the day I spend less time maintaining AmigaOS (and that's in a beta setup mind you) than I'd spend maintaining Windows. OS X does it better than both, but it has its own problems too.

Any way you look at it, no OS is perfect. But AmigaOS is getting a helluva lot better. You may not recall this, but AmigaOS 4.0 is not intended to go after the mass markets. It's for *us*. The Amigans who need a platform that enables us to do stuff we couldn't do before (at least not without adding too much (somtimes flaky) third party soft- and hardware).

I have a very hard time taking all this whining seriously. I can't help but think it's stubbornness and ignorance that fuels it. (Ignorance being lacking knowledge of existing solutions).

Anyway. AmigaOS 4 is the best OS out there for me. It's that simple. The other operating systems just drive me nuts and if they were all that was out there, I wouldn't be into computers at all, because I'd think they sucked.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Trezzer wrote: Explain to me, if you will, the need for a registry database (which corrupts over time) and an entire part of an OS dedicated to removing programs.

I didnt say you did need one. Mac OS X doesnt have one and thats really good.

As for Amiga apps - I still have some, but they really cant cut it in the modern world.

@Bobsonsirjonny

You must have very peculiar needs then - or very old apps.

Last edited by Trezzer on 04-Apr-2005 at 12:38 PM.

@Bobsonsirjonny

Is it the apps or the user that doesn't cut it?

If you spent more time figuring out the Amiga and less time looking at what other platforms have that you don't, you might find that you've got everything you need...

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@Bobsonsirjonny

> Ive been wishing for ages- posted about them.. but devs on Amiga are a dieng breed and I cant code for toffee.

Good luck the whiners are increasing rapidly then...

Gee, if you're not satisfied, do something constructive instead or shut up.

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@bobson

Sounds like you've made your mind up mate, time to flog your board and go to pastures new.

Maybe you'll return when the situation suits you better.

_________________

@Acill

weird, now give me proof.

since yesterday i started skimming for morphos software and guess what i couldnt even find 500 things.

so you better help me as atm this is looking pretty bad towards your comment.

also i have not counted commmerical software since thats not relevant atm 8as there is not 3000 commerical mos native apps anyway)

so please start a website with EVERY software downloadable for morphos.

os4depot removes old version of stuff when a new update is there and thats the proper way to do it unless it actually is broken or something (the upd) , but if u count all thats been upploaded there and other places (yes sadly not every file is uploaded to os4depot...) then that 3xx number most likely would be 500 ish...


come'on show my fellow mos friends where to download all theese things since they have been complaining about little software lately too.

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@Helgis

If Win is such a pain in the ... and Linux is the rising star - why do you still use Win then and have not installed Linux then on your x86 box? Just a question...

IMO the rising star today is OS X and not Linux and - unfortunately for us "amigan" fellows it's not AOS4 nor MOS nor AROS either. But we have the fun (no matter which AmigaOS).

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