Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6216 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
31 crawler(s) on-line.
 26 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 andrewjoseph007:  7 mins ago
 PhantomInterrogative:  7 mins ago
 NutsAboutAmiga:  15 mins ago
 g01df1sh:  24 mins ago
 bennymee:  26 mins ago
 hth313:  29 mins ago
 zipper:  40 mins ago
 kolla:  40 mins ago
 Trixie:  41 mins ago
 BigD:  50 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
Poll : Are you frustrated with the current state of OS4?
Yes - but Im still staying around.
Yes
I've lost all interest
I wish I had not bought my Amiga One / micro
No its taking as long as expected
Im very happy, and it will be done soon!
Im neutral
 
PosterThread
Coder 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 13:51:14
#61 ]
Team Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 4523
From: The Netherlands

@Bobsonsirjonny

So first the poll about the frustration was more the lack of software but it is really more then just that, rigth?

Coder

_________________
Can't get enough of me?
The Bucket Diary Blog
The Bucket Diary Twitter Account

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Chris_Y 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 13:51:43
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3152
From: Beds, UK

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

ok - having to select update when you have copied something into a directory..


You don't need to. There is a switch in Workbench that can be toggled to do directory notification. At the moment you have to use a little program called WBCtrl in order to toggle it, and the option is a little annoying, but you do have the choice of doing this if you desire.

Quote:
My frustration is born out of the lack of corner stone apps. IMHO Amiga inc SHOULD be funding the development, or adaptation of the following: A browser, a office suite and email client. These are defacto, non negotiable NEEDED things.


For email both YAM and SimpleMail are OS4 native, and YAM certainly is very good (I've not used SimpleMail but have heard good things about that too)

Browser, AWeb is OS4 native. There are things it struggles on but you can largely view most pages acceptably. Mozilla and Perhalia (is that right?) are being worked on, and AWeb and iBrowse are both being udpated to support newer standards.

Office suite, you can always use the old programs - Wordworth, Final Writer, TurboCalc, etc. An OpenOffice port is being worked on.

This really isn't bad considering OS4 isn't finished yet.

Are there any other requirements you have that people can suggest apps for?

Chris

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rogue 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 13:52:27
#63 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@Bobsonsirjonny
Quote:
about all the delays


They where inevitable, unless someone comes and pours a lot of money into the project. Our plans where initially aiming much lower, and seeing how you shrug off OS 4 in its current form, I don't want to know what you have thought if we had gone for the original plan.

Quote:
all the fighting.


Beg your pardon, but this is something that we, and I mean all of us, brought about us. It takes two sides to fight, and neither "we" nor "them" ever tried to stop it.

Quote:
To be honest I can only see it existing as a PDA OS


I am almost offended by that statement.

Quote:
OS 4 Should have been out years ago. They should have done a large deal with some organisation to kit them out with OS 4 for a specific task - eg information booths, POS systems etc. A niche should have been created.


No offence, but you obviously think we're all too stupid for that. Do you honestly think it is as easy as that? You have to have a finished product first to show someone before they get interested in buying. Without that, what "large deal" can you strike, especially in a market that has competition?

You're not the first one that things he knows better, but like with fighting it takes two for a deal. And like I said, most people that you can approach will say "OK, let's see what you have". And when you say "we're working on it", they'll tell you "come back when it's finished".

Quote:
Amiga is dead, long live Amiga.


It might be dead for you, it certainly isn't for me and for a lot of other people.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Coder 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 13:59:57
#64 ]
Team Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 4523
From: The Netherlands

@Rogue

Quote:
It might be dead for you, it certainly isn't for me and for a lot of other people.


I agree there. It is more alive then ever. Well for me it is. Like I said before, some key apps are missing but all of them are being worked on. Just takes some time.

Coder

_________________
Can't get enough of me?
The Bucket Diary Blog
The Bucket Diary Twitter Account

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
olegil 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 14:05:27
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote:
@Bobsonsirjonny
Quote:
To be honest I can only see it existing as a PDA OS


I am almost offended by that statement.


Cat fight!!!!

*cough* Ehem. I mean... Erhmm. Oh, nothing.

Quote:

Quote:
Amiga is dead, long live Amiga.


It might be dead for you, it certainly isn't for me and for a lot of other people.


Agreed. What is it with these people who need to justify their own decision to leave the Amiga with "it's dead, why do you still insist on keeping it alive?". Are you REALLY that insecure about your own decisions to jump ship?

@Bobson
If you wanna leave, noone here is going to force you to keep your board. If it REALLY is that much of a pain in the arse to use for you then maybe you've been just assimilated into the Windows way of doing things. At the moment I cannot do my work on the AmigaOne because I'm doing Linux development. Not working on a Linux laptop/desktop system is kinda too much beating about the bushes then. But other than that I must say I find the Amiga much more fun than the other systems (except for a complete lack of Diablo II grod darnit!!). I'm sorry to say that at the moment you are only contributing bad blood into this community with your attitude. You didn't actually pay for your board (heck, I didn't pay full price for mine either, and I tend to think I don't deserve to whine as much as someone who did), maybe you should consider giving it over to someone who WOULD use it for something constructive?

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Bobsonsirjonny 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 14:23:15
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2003
Posts: 2880
From: Unknown

@Rogue

My comment about delays was not aimed at you or Hyperion but at the hands who held Amiga during the last 12 years. Basically they messed up. With regards to the fighting I played my part in that too.

I'm sorry if you are offended - but I dont see how as a desktop it can be commercially viable. You need some big niche market - and you need to dominate. PDA seems logical.

OS 4 could be sold as a solution for a specific job. I mean the basics are done arent they - the basics should be enough for a bespoke set up to run a specifc thing for a specific task - like a barcode reader or something. Alan often speaks about PPC's low power consumption. Accountants dont care about technology - they care about price. If you could sell an Amiga OS based information booth than only costs 5p a day to run they would listen to that over an X86 box that costs 50p. I dunno.

Its a catch 22... Amiga Ones are too expensive for most devs. Without them their are less apps. Without decent apps its so frustrating!

Does Amiga OS have a real future? I dont meen can it compete with windows et al - but does it have a real future, and will be a better OS than whats is out there?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Bobsonsirjonny 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 14:26:18
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2003
Posts: 2880
From: Unknown

@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote:

It might be dead for you, it certainly isn't for me and for a lot of other people.


Agreed. What is it with these people who need to justify their own decision to leave the Amiga with "it's dead, why do you still insist on keeping it alive?". Are you REALLY that insecure about your own decisions to jump ship?

[/quote]

Well yes. I've stuck around ad infinitum - most of my life in fact. Invested a lot of time in the cause. Made some good friends from it. I dont wish to burn any bridges. Just part of me thinks what is the point.. computers have kept me in doors for far to long, and the sun is shining outside.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Toaks 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 14:28:08
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8042
From: amigaguru.com

@Chris_Y

i will back bobson up on one thing...

have you tried IBROWSE on an a1 with GX cpu ?

no i didnt think so...

its useless on the gx, its totally crashing all the time and well i know atleast 3 very big Amiga fan's who aint using their a1 atm because of this problem.

Aweb aint acceptable as a complete browser atm, no word completion and that dreadfull gui surely aint making it fun to use but yes its os4 native and its fast so yes it will become good but right now its not fun to use at all.

Ibrowse works fine for me on the XE and is stable too (i hardly (if ever) see it crash) atm.

anyway to make many persons njoy Amiga again we need the ibrowse update and that must work proeprly on the GX or else we will loose a few (if not many?) key persons who is just sittng on the sideline and waiting for this to be fixed (they have a1's atm but prefer to use their classic or pc's due to no browser..and infact ibrowse would be more than enough to them right now (as theyre used to ibrowse on the classic)

anyway we know the ibrowse team is working hard on getting the update done...and yet again i know they dont like to be asked about a release date but i will ask again anyway .... WHEN ?

_________________
See my blog and collection website! . https://www.blog.amigaguru.com

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Anonymous 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 14:40:13
# ]

0
0

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:
Are you frustrated with the current state of OS4?


I think you could divide "the current state of OS4" into two areas, a technology side and a business side.

The technology side of "the current state" deals with the coding of the OS. I believe this is what 99.9% of you people here thinks of when discussing "the state of OS4". I think that OS4 has progressed very well from this point of view. The developers has undertaken a monumental challange and things are happening. It takes time, but there is obvious progress. I believe that much of the work from many developers has been made for free or at a cost that cuts far below the going rate for a programmer, simply because of love for the platform. But there is a limit even for this. To make things move faster than they currently are, I think it would require a lot of extra resources, which won't happen. So there is no reason to feel frustration for this IMHO, things are the way they are, and you can't really do anything anyway but sit back and enjoy the slow but steady progress.

I am more concerned about the "business" side of "the current state of OS4". This deals with the platform building efforts that should be there (but isn't AFAIK). This would be an even bigger monumental challange than the coding, and almost more important IMHO. Without it, the coding will be totally in vain anyway. OS4 will not become something on its own. Simply releasing an OS won't make it a successful platform, as most OS projects out there (except perhaps a few) are examples of. It requires lots of resources, smart ideas and some very stubborn, hard working, hard skinned entrepreneur to make that happen, and the lack of this might be a bigger problem and source of frustration than the speed of the coding progress.

I think the development (the OS coding) is progressing as fast as anyone could demand, and even if there is no platform building entrepreneur working to make OS4 a real platform yet, my views on things on this market makes me kind of calm anyway. Because in my view there are at least two possible alternatives to the OS4 platform, of which one (MorphOS) might take a giant leap into "the real platform world" soon, if the rumours comes true. I can understand if you feel frustrated if you limit your own views to only one single option, but IMHO, the more the merrier! So I voted "Neutral".

 
     Report this post  
olegil 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 15:55:27
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@Bobsonsirjonny

So what are you doing in-doors posting here? Get the heck out there and enjoy life while it lasts, dude

Noone is gonna be grumpy just because you aren't using your machine. What I'm grumpy about is mostly the fact that you are WHINING about not using your machine. Personally I was drunk and obnoxuis instead of doing anything constructive TWO weekends in a row just now (a total of 6 days spent drinking the last 12 days, cause we had something of a holiday at eastern as well ). Of course I could have stayed home and done some programming or whatnot, but I chose to go out and have fun, dance with some chicks and worry about tomorrow when it came knocking. As it turned out, tomorrow had brought his good friends "bad hair day" and "headache" over, so when they all came knocking it wasn't all that fun. But it's nothing a bit of pillow-hugging and related activities won't fix. So go out and meet some new friends, have some fun and DON'T turn the Amiga into something more than a hobby. Because for most of us it really isn't healthy to consider a machine like this a religious icon

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
GrumpyOldMan 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 16:40:16
#71 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2003
Posts: 675
From: Haukipudas, Finland

Quote:

Bobsonsirjonny wrote:
Amiga is dead, long live Amiga.


If I would have been given a cent each time I have heard (or read) this sentence, I would be a RichOldMan

@Bobsonsirjonny
Here's an idea - since you got your uA1 free, why not loan (or even donate) it to some Amiga software developer? Surely there must be somebody who would like to create (or convert) some software to OS4 and would love to get a 'developer board' ? Then you could travel to PC/Mac-land and maybe later come back and see whether your 'investment' had a positive impact to Amiga's future

_________________
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." (Groucho Marx)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Anonymous 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 17:16:35
# ]

0
0

Personally I think Rob needs to back down a bit here. I haven't been as productive as I intended ( so far ) on my Amiga, but whilst I have the tools and the ability to do a hell of a lot more than I have, personal circumstances have reduced my output on the platform to what is a paltry level compared to what I had intended. This is for me to buck myself up on.

Rob however has none of those tools and ability, and thus should not be criticised with such wrath about that aspect. If you want to beat someone up over that kind of thing, beat me up.

However, I do think he is seriously looking a gift horse in the mouth and perhaps taking out on the platform frustration from other areas of life.

I do not think much of KMOS, Amiga Inc or of any of the story that is behind all of that. However I do 'believe' ardently in the ability of the platform to survive under AmigaOS4 and if possible, grow. Rob, it seems to me, has let his anger with the former bleed into his experiences with the latter ( in that he can't do what he wants to with the software at hand - and at the first hurdle gives up and bitches on the forum about it ).

My advice to Rob is to not act in haste on this matter. To put the machine to one side, AmigaOS4 to one side and don't visit any Amiga site for a while. Then pop back in a few months time and if you still feel the same make a decision then.

 
     Report this post  
Rogue 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 18:26:49
#73 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:
I'm sorry if you are offended


I wasn't offended, I said "almost".

Quote:
I dont see how as a desktop it can be commercially viable. You need some big niche market - and you need to dominate


A niche market is all you need. I am not foolish enough to think we can go against Windows or even MacOS. The best we can do is try to get a few thousand active OS 4 users. When we ever hit the 20000 mark then I'm happy. That's a market where you can ever make a profit with software sales.

Quote:
OS 4 could be sold as a solution for a specific job.


It will be sold as a soultion for a specific job, but to sell something you have to have it. It won't do if you want to sell them a potential customer to say that you are working on it - you have to have at least a near-finished product. We do plan to go for these markets (Ben Hermans has been saying that in the past, and it hasn't changed), but like I said it won't do to say "When it's done".

If you want to have your development paid by someone else, that someone else will want the rights to it. No one will pay for development time and agree to not own the result.

Quote:
Alan often speaks about PPC's low power consumption. Accountants dont care about technology - they care about price


The power consumption is indeed a very important point, and a point that can give the PowerPC a competitive edge. Of course, there are low-power x86 machines as well, but compared to, say, a VIA C3 the PowerPC (any PowerPC) is the better choice.

It's also not exclusively about the price. It is also about what you offer. A completed and working solution is something that people are inclined to pay more for.

Quote:
Does Amiga OS have a real future? I dont meen can it compete with windows et al - but does it have a real future, and will be a better OS than whats is out there?


As yourself one question - would anybody here, at Hyperion and in the OS 4 team - worked almost four years now on this project if we really thought it would have no future? Would anyone invest time and money just to beat a dead horse? Personally, I don't think so.

So yes, absolutely, I think AmigaOS has a real future. Otherwise I wouldn't be doing it.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
smithy 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 18:31:02
#74 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Aug-2003
Posts: 364
From: Newcastle

I don't understand why a few people are starting to get dis-spirited. Today, in the Amiga world, things look better than they have done for a long time. With the advent of the modern MorphOS and OS4 OSes, after such a long time of bleakness, we all knew it would take a bit of time before they matured, and a bit more time before applications started appearing. Now we have 2 funky OSes, people are begining to focus more on applications.

The problem is that the most important applications (web browser & office package) are huge and complicated beasts, but things really are moving! There's a few potential new web browsers - only one has to make it. And just this year the OpenOffice porting effort began.

Just these two things are enough to make the hardware sell to an ordinary user from the high street, maybe as a standalone bundle do-everything-you-want thing. I dunno.. the point is that there are loads of market opportunities for a desktop/home computer.

With Windows Micro, Java, and Symbian stomping all over the mobile market, it's 5 years too late to get a foothold there.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that we all knew it was going to take a while, and in the meantime we can be constructive and help the platform! That doesn't necessarily mean learning to program (although that's a good thing to do), it might mean creating a support website, writing an article, and (especially) just keeping contributing to sites such as this, keeping them buzzing, which I think is really important.

Anyway, I voted "No its taking as long as expected".

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
EntilZha 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 19:00:32
#75 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 27-Aug-2003
Posts: 1679
From: The Jedi Academy, Yavin 4

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:
although I am ####ed off about being lied to


Lied to ? By whom ?

_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Bobsonsirjonny 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 19:04:52
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2003
Posts: 2880
From: Unknown

@smithy

Quote:


Anyway, I voted "No its taking as long as expected".


hehe, dude have we had a brain transplant?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Bobsonsirjonny 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 19:05:23
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2003
Posts: 2880
From: Unknown

@EntilZha


"On Schedule and Rocking"

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
nbache 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 22:24:36
#78 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 1005
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

@Bobsonsirjonny
Quote:

Why? It's just a bloody computer. I should have been out enjoying the sunshine.

Yeah, just a bloody computer.

One that made you travel through viking-infested waters and lands to meet up with a bunch of other loonies and eat half raw slabs of meat while being choked in smoke last year in Landskrona. What other computer platform could have brought you to do that?

And we were out enjoying the sunshine - all five seconds of it!

Best regards,

Niels

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Bobsonsirjonny 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 22:33:03
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2003
Posts: 2880
From: Unknown

@nbache

Quote:

nbache wrote:
@Bobsonsirjonny
Quote:

Why? It's just a bloody computer. I should have been out enjoying the sunshine.

Yeah, just a bloody computer.

One that made you travel through viking-infested waters and lands to meet up with a bunch of other loonies and eat half raw slabs of meat while being choked in smoke last year in Landskrona. What other computer platform could have brought you to do that?

And we were out enjoying the sunshine - all five seconds of it!

Best regards,

Niels



So very true. I should lighten up. I went for a run tonight - clears the head.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
nbache 
Re: [Poll] Are you frustrated with OS4
Posted on 4-Apr-2005 22:44:52
#80 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 1005
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

@Bobsonsirjonny

That's the spirit, man!

See ya round ...

Best regards,

Niels

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle