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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
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Zardoz 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 8:13:35
#61 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@Wiffy

You're talking about the third problem again, the southbridge one. As you said earlier, this is a totally different one and has NOTHING to do with the Articia, it's a VIA problem.

Anyway, I was told that the uA1 has cache coherency, that's why I'm saying it here. Feel free to prove wrong or right, it's a good thing for me to learn something out of this.

Last edited by AMiGR on 04-Jun-2005 at 08:15 AM.

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Kronos 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 8:17:33
#62 ]
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2553
From: Unknown

@AMiGR

Dunno, allways thought that it was due to a special kernel (allready slighltly outdated and without any real support) would work around DMA/cache within the IDE-driver (for both VIA and SIL). Other DMA-sources like Network or USB are driven by stacks with error-correction, so any coruption would be next to impossible to notice.

So linux may actually work o.k. on the MikroA1 (and to some extent even on fixed XEs) to the same extent as it works on Peg1+April.

Problem is that it is impossoble to sell a SDR-based PPC-linux system with the overall performance of an A1/Peg1 even if they would get the max out of their specs without needing any special care.

It was impossible to sell Peg1-April into linux-markets in 2002 due to the price of the fix and the reduced memory-bandwith.

It was impossible to sell A1/Teron into linux-markets in 2002 due to it's rather high price and the endless supply of bugs it had. Even with all the bugs fixed it would have been impossible due to the requirement of an special kernel (the cache-coherncy-issue).

So the MikroA1/TeronMini is too little to late, and that why Genesi created the Peg2 and MAI/Eyetech are what they are today.

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Anonymous 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 8:18:22
# ]

0
0

@AMiGR

No I am not. I'll go slowly this time.

Problem 2: Cache coherency. ArticiaS.

Problem 3: Southbridge, unrelated network/ide controller lockup problem.

A. Unfixed Linux assumes that the northbridge implements cache coherency.

B. Fixed Linux does not it is a kernel and a driver patch ( or is it a driver framework patch, cant recall ).

Test: (A) on XE reveals suspected (2) and (3)
Test: (A) on uA1c reveals suspected (2)

Test: (B) on XE reveals (3)
Test: (B) on uA1c shows no problem

Test: (A) on XE with sil card reveals (?)
Test: (B) on XE with sil card reveals (?)
Test: (A) on uA1c with sil card reveals (?)
Test: (B) on uA1c with sil card reveals (?)

We know, from the second test that those MACH chips don't do what someone has claimed to you they do. The last four tests will reveal much more about the apparent nature of problem (2). The last four tests are what I propose to do, if someone else hasn't already done them.

Clear now?

Regards

Dave.

 
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Zardoz 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 8:21:40
#64 ]
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Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@Wiffy

Very clear. That was in many discussions in #amigaworld btw. That's where I got it from.

About sides, thank god... Sorry to say something about "sides", it mainly had to do with the fact that Toaks and others simply ignore what I say and flame me just because I'm "blue"...

Last edited by AMiGR on 04-Jun-2005 at 08:23 AM.

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Anonymous 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 8:22:18
# ]

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@AMiGR

Chatrooms are rarely the best source of reliable information Mind you, nor are forums.

 
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Zardoz 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 8:28:50
#66 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@Wiffy

True...

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Anonymous 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 8:31:35
# ]

0
0

@AMiGR

I hate all this sides ****. There are people who clearly do all they can to put down any solution that they see as a threat, and those who like informed, rational, uninformed, humourous debates. There are people who see themselves as being part of 'sides' ( and if you aren't on their side then you are on the other side ) and use the internet as a tool for trash-talking everyone who isn't on their side ( moobunny prime example of this ). Frankly I grew out of that behaviour when I entered puberty.

The way I see it is that we have a couple of lame duck companies ( Genesi, Amiga Inc ) a couple of somewhat tarnished but otherwise do-er companies ( BPlan, Eyetech ) and two useful PPC platform alternatives ( MorphOS and AmigaOS4.0 ) for those looking for the Amiga experience.

I don't see anyone here putting the boot in on the Pegasos2, but I do see a lot of people putting the boot in on the uA1c ( even though like the latest runs of the Pegasos2 it is relatively bug free and a stable platform ). I don't see MorphOS appearing on uA1c anytime soon or AmigaOS4.0 appearing on Pegasos anytime soon so I think that people believe that by attacking what they see as the weak link ( in the AmigaOS case that is the ArticiaS and in the MorphOS case that is ... erm ... MorphOS's current troubled situation ) they can win more sales for their own platform and make its future assurance more likely.

I think thats all a load of itchy cogs myself.

I think the only way to ensure a future is to seek subsidy and sales outside of the current Amiga userbase remnants. Whether that is done with PowerPC Linux ( a hard sell for anyone with a clue and a limited budget ) or in other ways is the concern of those that want to grow the business.

Its long since this extended piissing contest actually did anyone any good, so may it end soon.

 
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Zardoz 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 8:52:49
#68 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@Wiffy

True.
I personally hate pissing contests against all solutions... It's getting damn annoying but I hope that it will end soon.

BTW, MorphOS isn't really in a troubled situation anymore, development now continues normally (two releases already).

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Georg 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 11:13:54
#69 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 451
From: Unknown

I don't know French but some things look like possibly being answered in here:

http://obligement.free.fr/articles/itwguillard.php

What does for example the following mean?

"4. Les µA1 MK3 ou "C" (ce sont ceux qui sont en vente actuellement) n'ont que le problème de cohérence de cache, qui n'a aucune conséquence sous OS4."

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itix 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 12:57:16
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Kronos

Quote:

Other DMA-sources like Network or USB are driven by stacks with error-correction, so any coruption would be next to impossible to notice.


Actually it is noticeable. It can result in noticeable slow down in TCP/IP stack until stack is restarted.

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Anonymous 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 13:04:54
# ]

0
0

@Georg


"4. Les µA1 MK3 ou "C" (ce sont ceux qui sont en vente actuellement) n'ont que le problème de cohérence de cache, qui n'a aucune conséquence sous OS4."

The uA1 Mk3 ( which is the one currently on sale ) otherwise called uA1C have only the problem of cache coherence, which anyway has no consequeces under OS4.

Ive only been in France for 2 years, but Im sure thats what it sayes.

Last edited by Wiffy on 04-Jun-2005 at 01:05 PM.

 
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Bodie_CI5 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 13:54:46
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2003
Posts: 6739
From: Unknown

@Wiffy

Quote:

Wiffy wrote:


Ive only been in France for 2 years, but Im sure thats what it sayes.


And already you are beginning to talk in ye olde English



(NB: Bold in quote is mine)

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ctm 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 16:57:42
#73 ]
New Member
Joined: 28-Feb-2005
Posts: 7
From: Unknown

@AMiGR

what do you think about this from Alan himself


(from 2002)
http://flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbthread.pl/amiga/expand/114170


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Anonymous 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 17:03:12
# ]

0
0

@ctm

You can discuss that here:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12754&forum=4

But do not drag this thread off topic or into a pointless flamewar. That post has absolutely nothing to do with what has been discussed so far.

 
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Zardoz 
Re: Fixed A1: DMA and USB working 100%
Posted on 4-Jun-2005 17:46:38
#75 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@ctm

I'll continue on the other thread but before this, consider the fact that most thing mentioned by Alan there fell apart, including the Terrasoft deal.

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