@Chris_Y

Ok, good. This is the most basic AHI playback you can imagine. Library interface (which means no extra task due to the device interface), and 1 simple looped sample from ram. This rules out AHI itself or the program used to playback a sound.

Note that the interrupt code for all audio drivers is basically the same.

Regarding disabling MIDI: if you don't start CAMD or haven't got the emu10kx CAMD driver installed, the MIDI interrupts are off, otherwise you would get an instant freeze.

_________________
Audio Evolution
http://www.audio-evolution.com

I have:

A1-XE G4/933 unfixed
SIL680 with two HDs at UATA100
CD-RW at PIO4 on VIA
SB Audigy

This machine crashes (or hangs) after an average of 4 hours when playing music (any player) and using the network (any program).

But wegster quotes Fusion saying that a Soft or Hard reset is the only way out, but it most cetainly is not for me. Only a hard reset using the reset button on the case will reboot my machine. The keyboard is not responding at all.

I will try with the VIA disabled and see if that helps, but not now, because now I'm 120km from home using VNC and I would NOT like such a lockup now

_________________
- Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes)
> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.

@wegster

I can see that everybody here has tried to help you, with this annoying crash problem. So I guess it's my turn to give it a shoot. I'm an A1XEG4@800Mhz owner, and I had to solve some heat problems with my A1, before it was completely stable.

When I received my A1 a few years ago , I decided to change my G4 cpu cooler to a noiseless type(Zalman Rulez!). I Immediately noticed that the new cooler was much heavier that the original, and when fitted, the CPU module and socket got very strained by this extra weight. This had various effects on my system, including those annoying "full load" crash problems. So let me tell you about the problems I found, and how I solved Them.

1. The CPU cooler seemed to be properly fitted on CPU core, but it wasn't. I could had sworn that everything seemed to be perfect, when I inspected my CPU cooler fitting job. I have fitted many types of CPU coolers on just about every CPU platform there is. So I was quite confident(read:arrogant) that I had solved the task. But after few slightly frustrating days, fiddling with every corner of my A1(DMA, UBoot, Debian, Solderings.. ETC.). I isolated the problem to the CPU, with a huge stack of various cards, RAM sticks, PSU's ETC. I grabbed my thermometer and found that there was a huge difference in temperature, between the upper lower part of CPU core itself. And I knew that I'd found a problem, Houston.

The CPU coolertype I choose for my system, wasn't intended for use on a G4 processor. It's a socket 370 PC type of CPU cooler, but with some hacking and custom fiitings, they fit perfectly well on a G4 CPU. I have "Crossbreed" many types of CPU's 'n' Coolers before. These hybrid system has working quite nicely and been rockstable. So I guess the answer to why a car mechanics car never works a 100%, I really can't tell ya

The CPU cooler had due to gravity, ATX vertical position, and deformation of the various PCB's, made the CPU cooler gap slightly in the upper part of the CPU core. ArticSilver paste and all. But if the cooler hasn't got a proper mechanical and thermic connection to the CPU. The cooling paste simply cannot funtion properly. You actually create a "thermic air bubbles" between the CPU core and the cooler. These "thermic air bubbles" conducts heat at a much lower rate, than the working parts of the cooling paste layer. These "thermic strains" doesn't pose a problem when the processor is idle. But when the CPU starts to get going with instense tasks(read:Wegster's task list), the system starts to behave oddly.

To solve this stability problem, I choose a good old classic technique, that's been working everytime for me. Glue the CPU and cooler together, with 10s. superglue!! No, no hold on! I'ts not permanent! You can seperate the CPU and cooler again, and you can fit a new cooler if you want, but I don't think it's likely you want to. The principel is simple, with a thermic spacer plate that you glue directly on CPU. Then fit some cooling paste on the CPU core. Put some glue on spacer plate, and place the cooler in the correct position. Press sandwich hard for ten minutes. All joy!
If you regret your choice of CPU cooler, you simply take a screwdriver and twist it lightly between CPU and cooler. And POP.. Sounds scary? I'ts sounds much worse that it really is. I have done this hundreds of time, with out destroying or damaging a single CPU.

OK. Here we go ..

1. First. Use thin rubber gloves of the dentist/doctor kind. It's REALLY important! Everybody, particular young males, has a thin layer of proteins and stuff on their hands. These proteines destroys the glue connection between materials, and even worse, "thermic bubbles" everywhere. Bad! And as little bonus, the proteins dissolves with time into an type of acid! Heat and electrons accelerates and worsens this acid process. Be warned also, regarding the usual toxic and not very healty cooling pastes, that they enter through your skin. The gloves wisely prevents this problem. So remember them rubbers.. Please?

2. Clean the upper CPU surface, CPU core, contact area on the cooler with a lintfree cloth and cleaning fluid. This step is VERY IMPORTANT. You will never get this cooling system to function(or any other cooling systems), if you skip this step. See "thermic bubbles", Non working superglue effect, bad thermic connection.

Various lintfree cloth types: Glasses, scanners, cameras, goggles, hubble...Etc.
Cleaning fluids: Isopropanol, ethanol, methanol with high percentage 90% plus.

3. Clean the spacing plate on both sides, with the cloth and fluid combo. Place the CPU module on a firm surface. Place a SMALL drop of superglue in each corner of the outside area of the CPU core. (NO superglue on the CPU core surface, rinse off immediately). Place and center the spacer plate on the CPU. Press firmly(~2kg) on each corner of the spacer plate, with your fingers for at least a minute. Do NOT use to much superglue, as it will stop working if you do. Strange I know, but contact a chemist ask about molecular bonding with superglue. I haven't got a clue why.
Anyways, the CPU is now ready for fitting of the cooler.

4. Clean the CPU cooler surface with a lintfree cloth and a few drops of cleaning fluid. Place an tiny amount(a quarter rice grain) of ArticSilver No.5, in the exact area where the CPU core will make its contact. Use your finger and the cloth to spread the paste as evenly as you can. Take a clean side of the cloth, and wipe off any surplus ArticSilver. If done properly, there will be a round slightly discoloured area on the CPU cooler surface. In this area is where the CPU core should be placed.

5. Clean very carefylly the CPU core surface with the cloth/fluid combo. Place a small amount(½ rice grain) of ArticSilver in center of the CPU core. Take a new and clean hobbyknife blade, and spread the paste evenly as possible. Now for the hard part. The trick is now to get paste surface as smooth and level as possible. Angle the blade in near horizontal position, and move the blade carefully horizontally, making a smooth and level surface of ArticSilver paste on the CPU core. A few tries are sometimes needed, until you get a satisfying result. And the rubber gloves doesn't help either!

6. Hold on, nearly there. Final Task.. The cool CPU sandwich.
When the paste has been applied to the CPU core, you should glue cooler and CPU together immediately. The paste starts oxidizing and particles from the air enters the thermic layer and creates "thermic bubbles". So hurry slowly.
Clean the Spacer plate on the CPU with clean cloth and fluid. Never touch the paste areas on either the CPU or cooler. If you do, cleanse the surface and apply new ArticSilver.
Carefully clean around the square CPU core area on the cooler. Again be carefull not to touch the CPU paste area. Place the CPU cooler on a firm surface with the paste area upwards. Place the CPU just above and without touching the cooler surface. Center the CPU on the cooler surface, and make a markerpen dot in each corner. Connect the dots, so you can use the lines as a guide for positioning the CPU and glue. Place a small drop of glue in each corner, 10mm away from each corner marking. Within a few seconds, center the CPU on the cooling surface. Press firmly on the CPU for a least 2 minutes, without any movements at all. I use a book to keep a steady pressure while I press with my hand. And after a few minutes, I take a 2Kg weight and place it on the book, and leave it for an hour. Now it's done.

Be carefull when reinserting the CPU module in the XE motherboard. If your CPU cooler is of the heavy kind(some of the passive types are massive), then you NEED to build a metal support arm for the CPU cooler. If your CPU module is too heavy, then funny things starts to happen, when fans, HD motors, DVD drives starts vibrating everything on the PCB, including the CPU module. You could try a quick test to see if your problem could be related to this problem. Try laying your XE motherboard horizontally, with the cabinet side cover off. Try starting all the tasks that makes it crash. and see if the new horizontal postion makes any difference. You might be surprised...

I've quite a few other tips for you. But I'm quite sure that your problem is somewhere badly fitted CPU cooler, and vibrations in a stressed CPU socket. I'm electronic engineer by trade, and my A1XE got totally stable when I adressed these issues. You don't need to be a electronic engineer to apply a new CPU cooler. But if you have any doubts regarding your own electronic abilities, then don't even try. It's quite easy to mess something up, when working with delicate electronics. So please get somebody to help you, so you don't end up with a broken A1. G4 CPU modules are a bit of a rarety for the XE. So be warned.

If you need additional help, I will of course assist you(links, tips..). And the answers will much shorter than these ramblings But dam that heatwave, it's been too hot today in Denmark.

Good luck, my fellow amigan. May you feel bouncing balls!

!8O)

/Cipher
667 - Neighbour of the beast.

@ikir

Quote:

I happened before i fix my A1 and then with fix but hot temperature summer. imho it is the same with or without the fix.

could it be the Via or Articia is getting too warm?

You don't have anyway to check the temp. inside the case do you?

Might be a good test to try with the case sides closed up (sealed). Check the temp. and if you have the problems. Part (b) of the test might be to take the case sides off and check the temp. inside.

Might be able to track down one part of the problem this way. I have a case temp. tester thats built into a bay cover you can install. They are very cheap.

Once this is done maybe we can track down which chip needs a heatsink added!
==========================
Updated Good work
:Quote:

I grabbed my thermometer and found that there was a huge difference in temperature, between the upper lower part of CPU core itself. And I knew that I'd found a problem, Houston.

Last edited by Interesting on 11-Jul-2005 at 09:06 PM.

_________________
"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@Interesting

Artica does get warm, I found it almost matches the cpu temp if there is no air circulated around it.
I've got a Zalman fan mounted above the the cpu card which cools the artica.
It's temp is always about 37 deg, even when I was getting the audio freeze the temp was still the same. Now with the revolution it still sits at 37 deg but I've never had a lockup since I installed it.

-wardy

@thread

For more on heat differential please reread:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13022&forum=17
Post #4
Author:Guru Meditation

Best Wishes,
#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@CodeSmith
Codesmith- which sound card?

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Deniil715

Quote:

Deniil715 wrote: I have: A1-XE G4/933 unfixed SIL680 with two HDs at UATA100 CD-RW at PIO4 on VIA SB Audigy This machine crashes (or hangs) after an average of 4 hours when playing music (any player) and using the network (any program). But wegster quotes Fusion saying that a Soft or Hard reset is the only way out, but it most cetainly is not for me. Only a hard reset using the reset button on the case will reboot my machine. The keyboard is not responding at all. I will try with the VIA disabled and see if that helps, but not now, because now I'm 120km from home using VNC and I would NOT like such a lockup now

Is this while downloading multiple ISOs or other large files simultaneously, or with just 'casual browsing'?

Hmm, Soft reset has yet to work for me either..Fuzion?

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wardyone

Then µA1 has a fatal design flaw!

It has the Articia S placed UNDER the CPU card.
Why place it under if it gets too hot? Why not place a heat sink
over it?

No, I believe more that it's the CPU getting hot due to missplaced
heatsink/fan than VIA or Articia S getting too hot.
If this is caused by a heat problem.

It is really strange that people with the same hardware, apparently,
and same software can have totally different stability experience.
This usually tends to be something that has to do with hardware.

Total lockup of the system without GR or any other output seems to
me that only the CPU can make happen. If one of the other chips have
problems you would just have trashed I/O or something to that extent.
Wouldn't you?

Last edited by Samwel on 11-Jul-2005 at 10:09 PM.

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

@CiPheR

Quote:

I can see that everybody here has tried to help you, with this annoying crash problem. So I guess it's my turn to give it a shoot. I'm an A1XEG4@800Mhz owner, and I had to solve some heat problems with my A1, before it was completely stable.

First post I see,

*grin* I actually never plugged speakers into my A1 until I saw the long thread referenced at the start of this one. I've got a new card on the way, which has a fair chance of not exhibitng the same behavior.....but want to get to the bottom of this for _everyone_ that may have this problem. Bear in mind, during casual net use, this may only show up every 6-24 hours or so in some cases, so it's 'less obvious' there's any interaction happening there, and instead someone might think, 'Oh hell, OS4 crashed AGAIN!' I'd rather see that one resolved and laid to rest, myself!

Regarding your heat/cooling tutorial, that's a great writeup. Any chance of pasting it into a seperate thread named 'Cooling your system' or similar? It could be really useful for people looking for exactly that info (and the search)?

We'll see what happens- if need be, I'll pull the system back apart and get some thermal probes.

Thanks again!

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@DaveAE

So, the MIDI is completely disabled under normal circumstances anyway?

This looks like the other reasonable workaround:

Quote:

PCI Delay Transaction: 0 or off PCI Master Read Caching: 0 or off PCI Latency: any value from 0 to 3

This may be something that needs to be added to U-Boot, or it may be that Articia S doesn't support (modification of) these options.

Who was handling Articia configuration within U-Boot?

Chris

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

@thread

Did I mention that I have a fixed AOne?

@ikir

Quote:

Heat and/or vcore. With wrong vcore i could run dnet at 100% cpu for weeks without any lockups... but with audio on... boom. My A1 now has a uptime of about 30 hours without any problem. And i know it is not the only prob, but if you have the wrong vcore or a heat problem you get these lockups as well.

Hmmmmmmm, but I never had any lockups while running DNetC ever (I always have it runnning in the background, doesn't the low priority prevent it from really being an issue when running at the same time as other programs?) and during the testing phase I was doing I never had a crash when just browsing, running DNetC, and downloading 1 iso file while playing music!

The crashes only come when I start to up the downloads to several at a time (never checked exactly how many but 7 at a time would always do it, I'm not sure it's the number of downloads but how much bandwidth you're filling up?)

Quote:

Received my A1 = totally unstable.

Mine was fine from day one and even when runnning with the puny heatsink/fan it was supplied with. Only changed the fan when I found something good enough that I could clock up my system with.

I tried different vcore settings when I changed fans and settled for 1.79. I only changed to 1.84 since you seemed so insistent in the last thread. Whatever it made no difference for the lockups.

Quote:

I got these lockups again with hot summer. I modded my A1 and put 2 new fan inside, before it was TOOO HOT, indeed i had only one fan. Now i have the cpu fan, plus the tower fan wich blow out hot air outside teh case and a big silent alluminiuma fan wich blow in on the mb and cpu. The machien is stable 100% again.

My machine was running fine like this but I wanted a nicer case than the boring old case I had left over and was using. Of course I bought a more functional case with extra fans a stuff I wanted which is really nice but the OS performed just as it had before the switch.

Then I changed sondcards to the Juli@ and the crashes stopped 10 simultaneous downloads can't bring the system down.

Weather is even hotter now here in Sweden with every day getting into the 30's! My Amiga is doing better than I am!

_________________
Fixed A1G4XE 7455 RX933PC with fried CPU
Sapphire Radeon 9100 128mb
ESI Juli@ 24bit 192kHz Envy24HT
Sil 680 Ultra Ata 133 E-ide
SeaGate Barracuda 120gb 8mb cache

@Samwel

Quote:

No, I believe more that it's the CPU getting hot due to missplaced

Problem is we are all dealing with a ton of variables. Its not like the old days when we had a standard A2000 case and power supply!

We could have a pizza style mini itx case and be pulling in some high temp into the case and create problems. In another country a similar case might work better because he/she has A/C running and is pulling in a cooler air.

I've had problems with Graphics cards designed to work without cooling fans on them.
Live in the western US, and have had to make modifications to my case to deal with the "dry heat" in a Win system.

_________________
"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@wegster

Quote:

wegster wrote: @CodeSmith Codesmith- which sound card?

DOH!

That will teach me to post before my first cup of coffee...

It's a no-name CMI8738, 6 channel version. I had problems with a VIA chipset and SB Live in one of my PCs some years ago, so I stayed away from SB cards with my A1.

@DaveAE
Quote:

DaveAE wrote: Ok, for everyone who can reproduce the freeze at all times, please download: http://www.xs4all.nl/~dwrae/test/soundtest.lha to RAM, open a shell, cd to ram, extract it and do 'soundtest test.aiff' and let this one run (you might go crazy listening to the loop, so you might want to turn off your speakers ). Let me know if this freezes your system.

Dave- reproduced with your program. Checked VCore while inside, all ok for 7455-933 @ 1.84v.
Moved Soundcard to same slot as mentioned previously (second from bottom), no difference, same behavior.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

> 1. Open AmigaAmp or other music player.
> 2. Load a playlist, and set to repeat/loop so it doesn't run out of music.
> 3. using IBrowse, shell ftp, or other, download 2-3 ISO images AT THE SAME
> TIME. Try Fedora Core images if you'd like, 2-3 at the same time, most
> easily done via IBrowse.

I tried for about six hours and had no problems.
First 3 hours with Simpleplay playing modules, then 3 hours AmigaAmp playing mp3s. All while downloading four iso images at the same time.

Setup:
AmigaOne XE
PPC7455 at 1000MHz
Vcore 1.79V
CPU temperature ~ 46 C
Sil0680 IDE controller (VIA IDE is switched off in UBoot)
Terratec 512i digital


> Wardyone:
> Quote:
> ...
> What we do is fill a usb storage device full of mp3s and play them with
> AmigaAmp. 2 out of the 3 A1's here froze, ...

AmigaAmp sometimes freezes anyway, regardless of what else my A1 is doing. Sometimes it freezes within two minutes, but most of the time it works fine for days here.


I have another problem that may or may not be related to this thread:

When any player is active and the network is started, the sound starts to crackle a bit. If the network is started first and the player second, this doesn't happen.

Kind regards,

Dennis

@A3000T
Thanks for adding that info.

Any chance you've got an SB Live somewhere you can swap in temporarily? If not, I can send you one, seriously, if you don't have or can't borrow one, and are willing to? (I've got a Terratec coming this week.)

Interesting comment about the sound distortion- I believe this was noted in the 686B/Via interaction information as well, although it may have been while copying large files rather than networking. I'll let DaveAE weigh in on that one when he's able to...

I'm going to have to figure out how to do a table here and summarize all this in a table for results...

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@A3000T

Quote:

When any player is active and the network is started, the sound starts to crackle a bit. If the network is started first and the player second, this doesn't happen.

Yes, this is the same thing that always happens with my µA1-C using
onboard CMI8738 sound.
I thought this was a µA1 only bug?

Last edited by Samwel on 12-Jul-2005 at 12:50 AM.

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

@A3000T

Hi,

Quote:"When any player is active and the network is started, the sound starts to crackle a bit."

Please check with @Samwell in the other thread:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13660&forum=2&14

Best Wishes,
#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

Hi Everyone!

Well, I have an A1-XE/800 mhz, sii card, Raedon 7000, SB Live 5.1. The computer is same as the day I bought it 2+ years ago. It is on 24/7, and no problems. I am hosting webpages, and have an ftp server as well as a bbs running on it.

I too am having trouble with the SB live. The computer is stable as a rock until the sound gets involved. When someone is transferring lots of files to be over the ftp, and I am using the sound (AmigaAmp), it locks after about an hour or so.

I have never changed the original cpu fan or anything like that! The computer runs at about 107 Fareheit most of the time with no problems. I doubt this is a heat problem. A friend of mine that works on Intel crap boxs, told me the SB live card is a huge resource eater on those machines, and they have problems. It would seem he is right. I am going to get another sound card.

As far as my Micro, no problems at all, with sound and network transfer. Actually that computer never crashes.

Yogi