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      /  Troika Amy speculation..
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PosterThread
wegster 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 19-Oct-2005 20:49:43
#101 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@Troika

Quote:

Troika wrote:
@all

We have some very talented people who get very excited about working on this project. Can you blame them? The “Prometheus project” is very flexible in its design, and can be scaled to a larger format motherboard. Some of our prototype boards, and features are becoming confused with the Amy’05 s specification.


This is getting confusing. GuruMeditation said previously the specs have changed to adding AGP, and AGP + Ethernet are going to run at 66MHz. Is this true or not, as pertains to the Amy'05?

Quote:
Now, it's important to keep in mind that this is an ever changing process. What you see above might not be the case once the product becomes available for the general consumer. Most of this information you see here has already been posted in the FAQ on the Troika website, but it might be hard to get a good overview of the changes to date.


Quote:

@AMiGR
Quote:
BTW, there has been another change in the specs anyway... They are adding an AGP slot and changing more than the size of the PCB. Now, tell me that a December release is still even remotely realistic...

Very thoughtful post but wrong. The Amy’05 specs located here


Quote:

Quote:
They have changed the size of the board to 190x170 in the comparison chart.To me this indicates that they just moved the PCI slots so they both can be used in a normal mATX case.

Yes, and in future.FAQ we will explain.


So, the Amy'05 is the same as the current specs link then, with 2x PCI, and mini-ITX?
Flex-ATX and 2x PCI?
or as GuruMeditation stated,
Flex-ATX, 2xPCI + AGP in PCI mode?

The specs on the site now state Flex-ATX but shows 2x PCI, 33MHz, no AGP.

Can you explain in this thread once and state which is correct, or GuruMeditation clarify if he's talking about something other than the Amy'05?

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Offa 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 19-Oct-2005 21:00:13
#102 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Feb-2004
Posts: 139
From: Sweden

@Troika

Now my brain hurts

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ssolie 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 19-Oct-2005 21:10:04
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada

@wegster
Quote:
Can you explain in this thread once and state which is correct...

Didn't Troika just do that? He said some people are a bit too excited (i.e. GuruMeditation spilled the beans) and then corrected the specs and pointed right at them with a link. Mystery solved I would say.

Besides, didn't anyone notice the really good news about all this. There are multiple products in the works and the Amy'05 is the first of potentially many to come.

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jkirk 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 19-Oct-2005 21:48:24
#104 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2005
Posts: 3349
From: Georgia (usa)

@ChrisH

"The form factor has changed slightly, allowing for 1 AGP and 2 PCI slots."

operative word "allowing for" not contains

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Zardoz 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 19-Oct-2005 21:49:40
#105 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@olegil

Well, sorry, should have expressed that differently. Sure, it's possible but we shall see whether or not it will happen. I do not doubt that they're gonna release a board, I doubt the release date.

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bigsnyder 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 19-Oct-2005 22:31:09
#106 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2003
Posts: 152
From: Winston-Salem, NC

No "AGP"? Regardless of what mode this slot would run as, stating the Amy05 still does not
have an "AGP" slot is very disappointing. Limiting graphics to the PCI slot really makes for a
hard sell. I think the success of this board will be much higher if the final version ships
with "AGP".

C Snyder

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Bobsonsirjonny 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 19-Oct-2005 22:52:07
#107 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2003
Posts: 2880
From: Unknown

@bigsnyder

But it has an AGP slot which can accomodate one of thos off the shelf PCI-X adaptosr. Use a PCI-X card in PCI mode. Olegil has been working on something like this too - he had a project going recently and posted about it. He would be the man to ask - indeed he could maybe make one and get it mass produced and make some pennies

I was looking at specking a new edit suite today - the number of main boards with AGP is decreasing - most are PCI-X now, and PCI-X gfx cards have come down a lot in price. Likewise, PCI graphics cards are still readily available and cheap.

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wegster 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 19-Oct-2005 22:53:36
#108 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@jkirk

Quote:

jkirk wrote:
@ChrisH

"The form factor has changed slightly, allowing for 1 AGP and 2 PCI slots."

operative word "allowing for" not contains




Or to not only partially quote GuruMeduitation's posted info: (bold/emphasis mine)
Quote:

As a direct result of the cooperation between Guru Meditation and Troika Partners, we're now happy to inform you about the following changes in the specifications. The form factor has changed slightly, allowing for 1 AGP and 2 PCI slots. The AGP slot is working in PCI mode. Furthermore, there has been radical changes in the bus layouts. Several of the components are now running at 66MHz, compared to 33MHZ for everything before. Notably, the AGP slot and the ethernet chip.


@ssolie
Mostly, but as the FAQ and specs pages have been out of date in the past, a single post would likely clarify for one and all.

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bigsnyder 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 20-Oct-2005 0:32:37
#109 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2003
Posts: 152
From: Winston-Salem, NC

@Bobsonsirjonny

It has been my experience that a PCI counterpart to an AGP card is usually more expensive,
unless you really go budget (like a Radeon 7000). Many of us have AGP Radeons that would
love to have a second life in an Amiga board. I know my 8500 would.

When you say PCI-X, I assume you mean PCI-E ? PCI-X is something different entirely.

C Snyder

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tonyw 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 20-Oct-2005 0:46:57
#110 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3237
From: Sydney (of course)

@olegil

Quote:

If and when I get some more time to work on my own project you can bet your ass I won't be waiting until my board is finished before shipping dev kits to Hyperion. That would be just stupid.


Agreed. Let's hope that all involved have the time and other resources to do it properly this time.

Damn! I think I'll have to move to Europe where all the interesting work happens these days. No, forget that, I'm retired, I don't work any more

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Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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TheDungeonDelver 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 20-Oct-2005 2:26:26
#111 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2004
Posts: 815
From: Unknown

@wegster

I think what they did was decide to stretch the motherboard a bit. There's no AGP slot (by their own admission) but a blank space where one would go, if they put it on the board.

If you're handy with a dremel, a soldering iron and have nerves of steel I expect you could stick one on...!



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herewegoagain 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 20-Oct-2005 2:33:42
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2003
Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC

@TheDungeonDelver

Quote:
There's no AGP slot (by their own admission) but a blank space where one would go, if they put it on the board.


Well, it depends upon whos post you decide to belive I guess. Gurumeditation's or Troika's. One says they have added an AGP slot, and one says they haven't. Maybe some internal communication is needed before such things are posted on a public forum.

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firbodi 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 20-Oct-2005 6:34:59
#113 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2003
Posts: 1046
From: Planet Earth!

@Herewegoagain

I think each one are talking about a different board. One may be the Amy'05's upgraded design.

Firbodi

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olegil 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 20-Oct-2005 7:32:40
#114 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@ssolie

He said the future FAQ will explain it, not that the current one does it.

Don't any of you guys know how to decompose sentences into meaning anymore?

I suggest waiting for the updated FAQ before yelling bloody murder.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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herewegoagain 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 20-Oct-2005 11:08:18
#115 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2003
Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC

@firbodi

Okay, to keep it fresh, here is Gurumeditation's post below... Everything that is said here indicates that these are changes made to Amy05, as that is what we are discussing in this thread. And most specifically, the third paragraph indicates a "changed board". Even the first sentence is a reference regarding "the prototype".

I think that Troika may well be talking about two different boards, but it would seem everyone doesn't have the same understanding of what's going on with the project. That's all I'm saying. As partners, they need to communicate and release only official information at this point. Kinda funny since the last line indicates that they don't want any misinterpretations.


Quote:
Since we posted this little informal bit of news regarding the prototype on the nordic portals a little while ago, we thought it might be best to inform the english readers aswell.

As a direct result of the cooperation between Guru Meditation and Troika Partners, we're now happy to inform you about the following changes in the specifications. The form factor has changed slightly, allowing for 1 AGP and 2 PCI slots. The AGP slot is working in PCI mode. Furthermore, there has been radical changes in the bus layouts. Several of the components are now running at 66MHz, compared to 33MHZ for everything before. Notably, the AGP slot and the ethernet chip. The number of layers has changed from 8 to 6, reducing the cost to produce the board. A small number of chips has been removed from the layout, reducing the cost further.

We feel that this now gives the consumer the best expandability and choice, while increasing overall performance of the board. Now some people say changing the form factor is a big thing. It's not. We merely expand the board slightly, giving us a little more room for an additional PCI connector.

Now, it's important to keep in mind that this is an ever changing process. What you see above might not be the case once the product becomes available for the general consumer. Most of this information you see here has already been posted in the FAQ on the Troika website, but it might be hard to get a good overview of the changes to date.

(Edit:
Since we don't want misinterpretations, the above text may not be translated or copied over to other forums/sites without permission from us. )


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Trixie 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 20-Oct-2005 11:49:01
#116 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2082
From: Czech Republic

@bigsnyder

Quote:
Limiting graphics to the PCI slot really makes for a hard sell.

It depends. My workhorse computer, for instance, is a mini-ITX PC with an on-board graphics chip - and guess what, I'm absolutely happy with its performance. Two of the 3 available PCI slots are occupied by a soundcard and a DSP card, respectively. No heat, noise or interference from a gfx card. A neat, no-hassle, low-power, low-noise computer solution I've been looking for for ages!
So at least for me, no AGP = no disaster.
BTW, has it been explained why Troika didn't go for on-board graphics for the Amy?

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bigsnyder 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 20-Oct-2005 12:42:22
#117 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2003
Posts: 152
From: Winston-Salem, NC

@Trixie

I think you have indirectly hit on a good point. The troika does not have an onboard
graphics chip, an open PCI slot is required for video. I guess I am being too cheap
in regards to hardware, but it is a shame I have good hardware that is available
that can't be used. I do the same with my PCs. I upgrade just a few parts at a time,
so my machine more or less evolves instead of being replaced all at once.

C Snyder


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jkirk 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 20-Oct-2005 12:56:20
#118 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2005
Posts: 3349
From: Georgia (usa)

@wegster

Quote:

wegster wrote:
@jkirk

Quote:

jkirk wrote:
@ChrisH

"The form factor has changed slightly, allowing for 1 AGP and 2 PCI slots."

operative word "allowing for" not contains




Or to not only partially quote GuruMeduitation's posted info: (bold/emphasis mine)
Quote:

As a direct result of the cooperation between Guru Meditation and Troika Partners, we're now happy to inform you about the following changes in the specifications. The form factor has changed slightly, allowing for 1 AGP and 2 PCI slots. The AGP slot is working in PCI mode. Furthermore, there has been radical changes in the bus layouts. Several of the components are now running at 66MHz, compared to 33MHZ for everything before. Notably, the AGP slot and the ethernet chip.



i only quoted what was originally quoted in ChrisH's post. sue me.

besides in the pc world there are different flavors of the same board. some have ethernet some don't some have 6 usb some only have 4. despite the differences the board is virtually identical. what we are discussing is probably two different flavors of the same board one having "optional" components the base( amy'05 ) does not have.

Last edited by jkirk on 20-Oct-2005 at 01:01 PM.

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herewegoagain 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 21-Oct-2005 0:17:04
#119 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2003
Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC

@Trixie

Quote:
It depends. My workhorse computer, for instance, is a mini-ITX PC with an on-board graphics chip - and guess what, I'm absolutely happy with its performance.


And guess what else? Those on board graphic chips are place squarely on an AGP bus, not PCI. It is just integrated into the circuitry instead of linked to a physical slot, so naturally you are happy with the performance, it's integrated AGP!

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The_Editor 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 22-Oct-2005 7:54:36
#120 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7629
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

@Thread



Troika's FAQ has been updated ... interesting addition.

They got a thing for Greek Gods !!

Last edited by The_Editor on 22-Oct-2005 at 08:06 AM.

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