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      /  Troika Amy speculation..
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billt 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 4-Oct-2005 14:42:03
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3205
From: Maryland, USA

@Offa

Troika isn't the first to do Mini-ITX with 2 PCI slots.

http://www.logicpd.com/downloads/263/70000221_Rev_B.pdf
http://www.logicpd.com/eps/devkits/freescale/cdk/freescale_cdk/

Sure, it's an eval kit and someone on ann.lu noted the inner PCI slot probably conflicts with one of the serial ports to some extent. But Troika isn't crazy enough to be the first doing this!

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Interesting 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 4-Oct-2005 19:02:06
#22 ]
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Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered.

@Crumb

Quote:
Tsi107 supports G4, but it doesn't take advantage of G4's MPX bus, so it's limited to slower transfers.
For G4 it's better to use DiscoveryIII or TSi108...


and you should say Discovery II supports MPX but few use it.

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Moxee 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 8-Oct-2005 3:44:45
#23 ]
Team Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 6291
From: County Yakima, WA State, USA

@Rudei

Quote:

Rudei wrote:
@Moxee

That is a cool beard!


Why, thank you. I did not think it showed up all that much in this photo. I have a very large moustache which managed to remain mostly dark compared to the rest. Little children ask if I have a mouth.

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herewegoagain 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 8-Oct-2005 4:02:51
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2003
Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC

@Moxee

Yeah, I like it too. I think the cover-alls are a natural fit with your beard.

But I must confess, I originally read Rudei's post as "That is a cool board", lol.

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Rudei 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 8-Oct-2005 7:42:19
#25 ]
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Joined: 20-Nov-2002
Posts: 3589
From: Dallas, Texas

@Herewegoagain

Its a cool board too

Rude!

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Karlos 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 8-Oct-2005 9:24:39
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3574
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@ChrisH

Quote:

Also, more compact PCBs (below a certain limit) are much harder to design & manufacture, and hence cost more. Wasn't cheapness supposed to be an aim?


I seem to recall from somewhere that fabrication costs of larger boards get silly for small runs. Some postage stamp sized board might be harder to design and everything, but it is a one off cost. Fabrication isnt.

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ChrisH 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 8-Oct-2005 10:15:28
#27 ]
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Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Karlos
Having now seen the DPaint PCB errr 'layout', it didn't look especially cramped - at least component wise (I won't try to guess what the routing is like).

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Karlos 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 8-Oct-2005 10:18:59
#28 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3574
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@ChrisH

I guess we'll have to wait and see

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MazinKaesar 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 8-Oct-2005 11:35:41
#29 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2004
Posts: 83
From: Modena, Italy

@jahc

[WARNING, A BIT OF BAD ENGLISH INSIDE!!! ]

I think there are some mini-itx cases bigger than others; I think Amy will fit
perfectly on an Aria: http://www.bwi.com/product/10793
or you can use a Micro ATX case, there many, some of them are very cool


edit: some more cases with room for two PCI slots:

morex venus 668 and 669 (the best for me, in the black version!)
you can found them here:
http://linitx.com/index.php?cPath=8_69

edit (again!!!! )... looking for a very cool Micro ATX case?????
take a look here... http://www.directron.com/stratacase.html

Last edited by MazinKaesar on 08-Oct-2005 at 12:02 PM.
Last edited by MazinKaesar on 08-Oct-2005 at 11:40 AM.

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Moxee 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 8-Oct-2005 16:57:03
#30 ]
Team Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 6291
From: County Yakima, WA State, USA

@Herewegoagain

Quote:

Herewegoagain wrote:
@Moxee

Yeah, I like it too. I think the cover-alls are a natural fit with your beard.

But I must confess, I originally read Rudei's post as "That is a cool board", lol.



I hate to admit that I first read it as "That is a cool boar."

I reread the thread from the beginning to find out why I was so boaring. I must read too fast.

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I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

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Sembazuru 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 11-Oct-2005 17:25:05
#31 ]
Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 91
From: Pennsylvania, USA

@MazinKaesar

Quote:

MazinKaesar wrote:
{...}
I think there are some mini-itx cases bigger than others; I think Amy will fit
perfectly on an Aria: http://www.bwi.com/product/10793
or you can use a Micro ATX case, there many, some of them are very cool

edit: some more cases with room for two PCI slots:


Mini-ITX cases that support 2 PCI slots all require riser cards that allow the PCI cards to be mounted horizontally (remember the A4000D?) next to the MB. The problem with trying to fit 2 PCI cards on the draft layout diagram is the inner one would conflict with the connector plate for the MB. Only using flexible risers (essentially PCI extension cables) would you be able to utilize the inner PCI slot based on the draft layout.

Quote:

morex venus 668 and 669 (the best for me, in the black version!)
you can found them here:
http://linitx.com/index.php?cPath=8_69


The Morex Venus 669 is what we have been using at SoftwareHut for our pre-built uA1 systems. Nice case, easy to work in (as long as you have small, nimble hands but that is true for many mini-ITX cases).

NOTE: before anyone asks, I don't know when we will be getting uA1 boards again. We keep getting told dates and nothing happens by those dates. Very frustrating as a vendor, and not suitible fodder for this topic.

Quote:

edit (again!!!! )... looking for a very cool Micro ATX case?????
take a look here... http://www.directron.com/stratacase.html



Micro ATX is a different size than mini-ITX, and I doubt the mounting holes are in the same locations.

edited by wegster- fixed hanging quote

Last edited by wegster on 11-Oct-2005 at 06:05 PM.
Last edited by wegster on 11-Oct-2005 at 06:03 PM.

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number6 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 11-Oct-2005 17:39:41
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11515
From: In the village

@Sembazuru

As you know I have one of these. I love this case.
Are you still adding that "inlay" on the back that fits so nicely over the ports?
If so, why not have a picture of that on your website to replace the stock photo
"back view" that does not show the "inlay"?

Quote:"(as long as you have small, nimble hands"
So true.

Best Wishes,
#6

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billt 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 11-Oct-2005 19:11:53
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3205
From: Maryland, USA

@Sembazuru

Quote:
Only using flexible risers (essentially PCI extension cables) would you be able to utilize the inner PCI slot based on the draft layout.


There may be another option.

http://www.mycableshop.com/sku/RSRPCI2C.htm shows something that might work. Sure, they're sold out and it's 3.3V style, but surely thre must be something out there for 5V as well and can be in stock someplace.

This starts out as a dual-slot riser, and uses a seperate tab of PCB to get the DMA adn IRQ lines off another motherboard slot, as these signals for both PCI slots are not all available in a single motherboard host slot. I've got something similar with 3 slots and two seperate PCB tabs to pick up the DMA&IRQ signals from other slots, which I've used with my Prometheus bridge. If there was a way to tap the signals from MicroA1 motherbaord it might work there as well, I'm not sure if Eyetech had any headers for this conveniently available or if you'd have to find them and hack the motherboard yourself to pick them up, but then people could finally have a working riser for that as well. Shouldn't need any Uboot tricks that I can think of for this to work, so long as on-board PCI devices haven't used up all these signals. Seems the second and otherwise unusable PCI slot in Troika could accept the PCB tab for one of these risers.

Or perhaps the active dual risers at http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=8#p1902 might work, but I'm not sure how they deal with the second slot signals (IRQ&DMA) to work well, there may need some Uboot tricks to work with this, or maybe they just won't work at all.

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Sembazuru 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 11-Oct-2005 19:51:07
#34 ]
Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 91
From: Pennsylvania, USA

@wegster
Thanx for fixing the formatting of my last message... I'll preview this one first.

@billt
Quote:

billt wrote:
@Sembazuru

Quote:
Only using flexible risers (essentially PCI extension cables) would you be able to utilize the inner PCI slot based on the draft layout.


There may be another option.

http://www.mycableshop.com/sku/RSRPCI2C.htm shows something that might work. Sure, they're sold out and it's 3.3V style, but surely thre must be something out there for 5V as well and can be in stock someplace.


Actually, mini-ITX.com has something similar, a "Reverse PCI Riser Card" that extends 1 PCI slot upwards and the PCI card is mounted horizontally above the MB. (risercardshop.com also has one, they call them 'A' side risers, where the normal type we are used to talking about are 'B' side risers.) Unfortunately, I haven't seen any off-the-shelf cases that support this method of card mounting. I was just talking about the mini-ITX cases that I've seen on the market so far. If you know of any mini-ITX cases that have mounting locations for PCI cards mounted horizontally above the MB, please let me know.

My thought with the flexible risers would be to use a flexATX case that has 3 or more locations for cards. Put a flexible riser in each PCI slot and use the second and third (the first being the one in-line with the connector on the board) locations for cards. I would diagram it, but I'm not that good with ASCII graphics.

BTW, thanx for pointing me to that site, I just now learned about www.risercardshop.com

Quote:

{snipped}

Or perhaps the active dual risers at http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=8#p1902 might work, but I'm not sure how they deal with the second slot signals (IRQ&DMA) to work well, there may need some Uboot tricks to work with this, or maybe they just won't work at all.


I'm not sure how well the Amy05 (what this thread is about) will handle dual risers in either slot, but I've heard of people using them sucessfully in uA1's.

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olegil 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 11-Oct-2005 22:06:43
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@Sembazuru

Since the A1 doesn't technically do anything to actively support multi-slot risers, those that work there will work everywhere. I presume those would be the active ones, with at least a rudimentary form of interrupt handling, very likely even a proper bridge chip.

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olegil 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 11-Oct-2005 22:08:21
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@billt

If there is a bridge chip on there it'll work without any UBoot magic. As witnessed by me with a PCIe graphics card in UBoot

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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billt 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 11-Oct-2005 22:38:51
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3205
From: Maryland, USA

@Sembazuru

Quote:
If you know of any mini-ITX cases that have mounting locations for PCI cards mounted horizontally above the MB, please let me know.


I noticed this one in MazinKaesar's post #29: http://linitx.com/product_info.php?cPath=8_69&products_id=721
Doesn't sound like a desktop or HTPC hgh-on-style case, but appears to mount the PCI card horizontally above the motherboard.



Also for some of the discussions going on, the http://linitx.com/product_info.php?cPath=8_69&products_id=543
one appears to have two PCI slots, though it doesn't really say how they are lined up with or connected to things on the motherboard. As that's been a hot topic in various Troika threads, it's something to wonder about. :) Might need a flex cable and some effort to use the second slot bracket there.

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syrtran 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 12-Oct-2005 3:37:42
#38 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Apr-2003
Posts: 835
From: Farther upstate than Upstate NY

@Sembazuru

Quote:
Micro ATX is a different size than mini-ITX, and I doubt the mounting holes are in the same locations.


Since you are working with these boards, you will need to know that, yes, the miniITX mounting holes are intentionally in the same place as the four holes that form a square(-ish) near the I/O plate on Micro- (and Flex-) ATX.

VIA wanted a formfactor that other manufacturers would adopt.

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firbodi 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 12-Oct-2005 4:12:23
#39 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2003
Posts: 1046
From: Planet Earth!

@jahc

Quote:


"Estimated Amy production run 2005".. Only 2 months left to go before we know more about these mysterious boards. hehe



I wouldn't hold my breath. For the same reason they missed the BB3, they well could miss 2005.

I'm not trying to be negative or anything, just stating the possibilities that are not rare in Amiga market.

Firbodi

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olegil 
Re: Troika Amy speculation..
Posted on 12-Oct-2005 7:31:56
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@billt

It would seem from the picture here:
http://www.procase.com.tw/products/mb/66.php
that the inner most slot in the case is aligned to the standard miniITX PCI slot. So ain't gonna help for the Amy'05...

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Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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