Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5669 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
21 crawler(s) on-line.
 9 guest(s) on-line.
 1 member(s) on-line.


 kolla

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 kolla:  12 secs ago
 Kremlar:  12 mins ago
 IRTheBorg:  14 mins ago
 dalek:  17 mins ago
 billt:  1 hr 5 mins ago
 DiscreetFX:  1 hr 22 mins ago
 Oscar:  1 hr 39 mins ago
 ggw:  1 hr 40 mins ago
 Hypex:  1 hr 49 mins ago
 freak:  2 hrs 2 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Register To Post

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 Next Page )
PosterThread
TrebleSix 
Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 15:41:31
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-Sep-2004
Posts: 3747
From: Pembrokeshire, Wales

Just found this on another forum......

From the book "Freax"

— What's your opinion about the new Amiga successors, the Amiga One and the Pegasos? Do you think they have future?

They're both just PCs with PPCs. Nothing more, nothing less. If a PowerPC is something you find interesting, look at these. If not, they're barely a blip on the radar. What really bothers me is the business case. I don't think anyone working on these things has actually run a company before, certainly not a real company.
First question: who are your customers? If you can't answer that, you are not in business. Both seem to be saying "old Amiga users", but I don't believe that alone is a market large enough to sustain one new computer platform, much less two. Second question: how dedicated are your customers? AmigaOS/MorphOS require custom hardware. So it's $800-$1600 invested before you boot to Workbench. Once there, you don't have applications yet. So it's just a toy.
My claim is and has been that AmigaOS, or a clone, should have been ported to a PC. I just bought a 2.6GHz P4/Celeron machine, including 80GB hard drive, DVD/CD-R/CD-RW drive, 256MB of DDR-DRAM, etc. for $199. Ok, it was a good sale, this is one of my son's Christmas presents. This runs many times faster than any "neo-Amiga" class PPC machine. And many other people have PCs, they don't have PPC machines. What this means: there's a barrier to entry for new Amigas. In the old days, we had advances in hardware and software. But when the hardware is substandard and expensive, why bother? AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.
Ok, so my opposition will say something like "but, if it runs Windows, they'll just run Windows, not AmigaOS". Dudes... Newsflash! They're already doing that. No one will accidently run AmigaOS rather than Windows. Everyone running AmigaOS, or MorphOS, made that decision. They're early supporters, they see something better. So they absolutely will run things on AmigaOS, if they can run them on AmigaOS. This is exactly how Linux has been growing.
Flip the coin around... if there's a job I need to do, that I can't do under AmigaOS or MorphOS today, that's a reason to not buy. I might also have reasons, such as interest to buy. Add them up, and there's my purchase decision. It's a threshold thing. If the path-independent means to getting AmigaOS on my desktop is $100 rather than $1000, more will sign up. Likely, many more, because the threshold of rejection is a log scale. You might find, for every 100 people willing to buy a New Amiga, there are 1000 or 10,000 willing to buy the software to run this environment on their PC. This is only made more obvious by the fact that none of the hardware is even as good as the cheap PC stuff. If it was better than PC, you'd have a big geek attractor there, even if they didn't know Amiga. Today, it's a big geek repellant, they understand all the details, and don't want to be made fool of.
And all of these issues are largely independent of the OS itself. In OS terms, "better" gets some curious people, if there's a free download. "Dramatically better" gets more, if there's a free download. "Dramatically better, with applications" is where the revolution might begin.

_________________
Dark Lord Design Wicked Solutions For Damned Problems

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Stephen_Robinson 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 15:45:27
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2005
Posts: 1991
From: UK

@treblesix

He talks a lot of sense this man.

_________________
Rage quited 29th May 2011

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ssolie 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 16:08:05
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2718
From: Alberta, Canada

@treblesix
Personally, I believe the idea of a desktop platform and especially a single desktop box that runs everything is a dead end so there is no point arguing what chip happens to be at the core or not.

That certainly doesn't mean we can't have some fun in the mean time though.

_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Chunder 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 16:20:01
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 1956
From: The City of Xebec's Demise

@ssolie

Agreed - ultimately, the situation will hopefully become like other domestic gadgets (e.g. DVD player, VCR, Microwave, TV) where you don't really know or care what hardware is inside, you're only interested in features and compatibility... and of course, aesthetics!

In the short term, however, I think that Hyperion has gone the right way - abstract the OS in such a way that it runs on a set of hardware that is (was!) available, and which some users already have (classic PPC) and leaves the door open for future ports onto other platforms.
Trying to support just the differences between the Blizzard PPC and the Cyberstorm and the A1 has been difficult enough; imagine how long it would have taken if they had to support each and every different x86 BIOS, north/southbridge combination, motherboard features, etc. Not just "When it's done", but "OMG - we're never going to finish!"

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Valwit 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 16:21:18
#5 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 80
From: Imladris

@treblesix

well. many ppl were talking exact the same way in the past years, and yet so many didn't understand :)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Mikey_C 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 16:30:25
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 3060
From: Unknown

@treblesix

Wow Dave Haynie, speaks and people have to go out now, dump their A1's and Classic PPC cards, buy an x86 box and harrass hyperion.

Darn, I really like my MicroA1 with OS4 on PPC, but I guess, I have to dump it now, cos someone who no longer has anything to do with the Amiga scene says so.

Gee I can't wait for Someone from Amiga inc to tell us that using OS4 is evil and that we should all be running Amiga Anywhere.

Sheesh!

Last edited by Mikey_C on 10-Jan-2006 at 04:30 PM.

_________________
No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ppc4me 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 16:41:36
#7 ]
Member
Joined: 10-Sep-2005
Posts: 82
From: Unknown

@treblesix

He is just bitter about the fact he never got the Pios One Design working.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Chunder 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 16:42:35
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 1956
From: The City of Xebec's Demise

@Mikey_C

Uh, yeah. Like, whatever dude!

Quote:
Wow Dave Haynie, speaks and people have to go out now, dump their A1's and Classic PPC cards, buy an x86 box and harrass hyperion.


Nope - don't recall anyone saying that (at least here...) nor DH advocating such a move...

Quote:
Darn, I really like my MicroA1 with OS4 on PPC, but I guess, I have to dump it now, cos someone who no longer has anything to do with the Amiga scene says so.


Did he? Where?

Quote:
Sheesh!


Yeah, my sentiments exactly.

IHBT - and yes, everyone always says "don't feed the trolls"... but I just had to!

Last edited by Chunder on 10-Jan-2006 at 04:47 PM.

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
polka. 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 16:45:12
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2005
Posts: 1820
From: Tortuga

@Mikey_C

Calm down. Dave did not attack you personally and I also don't see where he is suggesting you to dump your MicroA1.

This guy has actually a quite realisitc point of view - from a business perspective. We have a different one, rather from a geek-user perspective. Looking at it from a business perspective can be quite disencouraging for us, I know.

"What really bothers me is the business case. I don't think anyone working on these things has actually run a company before, certainly not a real company."

There IS actually some truth in it if you look at the current Amiga hardware situation. On the other hand I am very happy that there ARE some of these "companies" who do not ONLY look at it from a business perspective, but are enthousiastic about the Amiga. Otherwise there won't (ehm, rather "will not") be any hardware for us freaks.

_________________
This signature is in the middle of a much needed facelift!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Mikey_C 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 16:47:54
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 3060
From: Unknown

@polka.

I am not saying that what Dave Haynie is saying isn't right at all, far from it, but, the boat sailed out a long time ago and it ain't coming back.

_________________
No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
The_Editor 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 16:49:56
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7628
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

@polka.

Indeed.

HazyDave would naturally look at what would be needed to attract him back into devving for Amiga or Os4.


Probably just the same for Lew "eggs for Brekkie", Carl Sassenrath, etc

_________________
******************************************
I dont suffer from Insanity - I enjoy it

******************************************

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Mikey_C 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 16:54:41
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 3060
From: Unknown

@Chunder

I was not trolling in the least bit. I was merely stating my opinion. i.e. yes, it's all well and dandy for Dave Haynie, Who was if you recall, originally working on a PPC based motherboard for the Amiga, (remember?) to come out now and say that it's a bad move and that we should have gone x86. He should have said this before the PIOS One.

Some people argue that mankind should have never left the trees whilst other argue that we should never have left the oceans in the first place.

I have huge respect for Dave Haynie, he is a legend, but he has moved on and so has the Amiga platform. Whether we like it or not, the PPC route is the one that OS4 has embarked on. Had the decision been to have gone x86, the cries from other Amiga users saying "We should have gone PPC" would have been equal, if not louder.

The PPC isn't an evil Chip, it can't be too shabby if the PS3 is gonna be using it.

It proves nothing and adds nothing to the debate. because the Debate is over and done with.

Last edited by Mikey_C on 10-Jan-2006 at 04:56 PM.

_________________
No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
The_Editor 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 17:09:39
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7628
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

@Mikey_C

Did Dave Haynie (HazyDave) delete his account here ?

I just did a search and couldnt find him

_________________
******************************************
I dont suffer from Insanity - I enjoy it

******************************************

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Varthall 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 17:16:27
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Feb-2004
Posts: 1552
From: Up Rough

@Chunder

Quote:

Chunder wrote:

Trying to support just the differences between the Blizzard PPC and the Cyberstorm and the A1 has been difficult enough; imagine how long it would have taken if they had to support each and every different x86 BIOS, north/southbridge combination, motherboard features, etc. Not just "When it's done", but "OMG - we're never going to finish!"

I agree

Varthall

_________________
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Mikey_C 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 17:17:01
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 3060
From: Unknown

@The_Editor

Don't recall him ever having an account here.

_________________
No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Seer 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 17:17:26
#16 ]
Team Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2003
Posts: 3725
From: The Netherlands

@Mikey_C

The Pios 1 was made back around 1997, the market was different then, a far better time to get a PPC Amiga off the ground then 2006. Dont really know all the details as to why the Pios never came to be but IIRC around the time BeOS made the switch from PPC to X86 (not related but interesting to note).

Back then, a PPC Amiga would have a larger following and had to attract less "old users" back to the Amiga then in the present day.

I'm not saying X86 is the right choice, the Friedens made numerous statements as to why.

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Leo 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 17:21:58
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

Quote:

Gee I can't wait for Someone from Amiga inc to tell us that using OS4 is evil and that we should all be running Amiga Anywhere.

I pretty sure you would do it if someone from Hyperion told you to do so...

Leo.

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Seer 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 17:22:09
#18 ]
Team Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2003
Posts: 3725
From: The Netherlands

@Chunder

imagine how long it would have taken if they had to support each and every different x86 BIOS, north/southbridge combination,

How about using 1 model/type of X86 mobo then.. Pick one, or design one yourself.. Most popular chipsets are made in the millions.. The biggest risk is the revisions of the chipsets you get in X86 land.

Anyhow, let's just get the Amy and the other hardware manufactors show what they got. Who knows we might be pleasantly suprised.

Last edited by Seer on 10-Jan-2006 at 05:23 PM.

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
gdanko 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 17:25:31
#19 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-Sep-2004
Posts: 267
From: San Diego, CA, USA

The Amiga as a technology no longer sticks out from the others. What originally made the Amiga special is now commonplace. While the G4 is a nice chip, it's sorely outdated. This is not to say it will not perform well with a nice small OS. I am typing this on a G4 Cube which works pretty well given a large amount of memory. But what needs to make a computer stick out nowadays is the OS. This is why the x86 users lust over OS X. The OS is really nice but the hardware is expensive. Quandary. If the AmigaOS4/5 is ever released and ported to x86 you will see an influx of new users. Why? Because people want cheap hardware. Dave Haynie was 100% on target in how he spoke about Linux. Once the OS4 hardware is more accessible (quanitity and price) you will see more people installing OS4.

But what about the classic Amigas with PowerPCs and all that? Well, why do I play with a C64 or 128? Nostalgia. Yeah I can make the Amiga my primary desktop if I had to. But the truth remains, OS X is more practical as a desktop OS for me. Not many new apps are coming for Classic Amiga. Classic Amiga is more difficult to configure and use. But it's still fun to tinker. It's fun to have the old relics in working order.

I would love to see OS X and AOS4 available on cheaper hardware. I dislike the cases you can get for PCs these days but I am sure someone can make a nice looking case without neon and huge fans all over.

I think it will be another 5+ years before we see AOS on x86 hardware.. if ever.

_________________
1 x A1000, 6 x A500, 1 x A600, 2 x A2000, 1 x A2500, 2 x A3000, 1 x A3000T, 2 x A4000, 1 x A4000T, 1 x A1200, 1 x A3500, 1 x CDTV

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Mikey_C 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 10-Jan-2006 17:28:14
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 3060
From: Unknown

@Leo

There is no need to be so insulting.

_________________
No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle