Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6071 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
23 crawler(s) on-line.
 148 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 DiscreetFX:  20 mins ago
 Hypex:  28 mins ago
 AndreasM:  29 mins ago
 kolla:  37 mins ago
 Gunnar:  50 mins ago
 saimo:  1 hr 38 mins ago
 amigakit:  1 hr 57 mins ago
 OldFart:  1 hr 57 mins ago
 _ThEcRoW:  2 hrs 17 mins ago
 NutsAboutAmiga:  2 hrs 44 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 Next Page )
PosterThread
hatschi 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 16:07:54
#321 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@Plexus

If you have something substantial to add to the discussion here, maybe even some arguments, then put them here. If not, don't call it a "crappy discussion" after all what has been said and after concerning who has been involved in this discussion. Just stay away from it, if all you can add is "nanaaa, we won't listen!".

Quote:
And People, Forget the Amiga on crappy X86 HW!


...says somebody with a "AmigaOne XE 800 Mhz" in his signature. Did you "fix" it yet?

Last edited by hatschi on 14-Jan-2006 at 04:14 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Manu 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 16:18:46
#322 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

@captainmoomoo

Share your point of view 100 %. It's seems like it is a reason resist x86 just
because there's something evil about them and Windows runs on them.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Plexus 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 16:21:01
#323 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Sep-2003
Posts: 289
From: SWEDEN (Sverige)

@hatschi

...says somebody with a "AmigaOne XE 800 Mhz" in his signature. Did you "fix" it yet?

No comments!

surrender on that point!

But how many times must Rogue explain for people, why there arent going to be any Version on X86???????? and how many explains of why the situation is like it is!

People when are you going to respect whats had been Said from the AOS4 Developers?

GIVE UP OS4 on X86!!!!!!!! Support the coming Hardware instead!

Last edited by Plexus on 14-Jan-2006 at 04:29 PM.

_________________
AmigaOne X5000, AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Update 2 special super 2 cores prepared super edition v75 christmas speciale uniqe quadro prepared AmigaOS... TWO MORE YEARS IS NOTHING IF YOU BEEN WAITING SINCE 1994..

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ExiE 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 16:24:43
#324 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

@Plexus

Quote:
Amiga for me and many many others this days, is: AmigaOS4 and PowerPC architectures!


Can you please explain what is Amiga on PowerPC architecture?
Are (was) ppc Macs Amiga just coz they have PPC inside or what?

For ME Amiga is primary the AmigaOS and idea or style of doing things but not the hardware or even powerpc. Architecture build on custom chips is gone and there is nothing special (Amiga?) about powerpc...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Amigo1 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 16:39:05
#325 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1582
From: the Clouds

@T_Bone

Quote:

T_Bone wrote:


I want to echo this, because it seems some lucky b@stards (who already have hardware) are somehow becomming discouraged by those of us who can't *get* hardware, talking about how to solve the problem that is affecting *us*, and not them.


sometime reading the forum, one can have this impression that's true..sadly..

Quote:

There's nothing wrong with PPC AmigaOS. This problem that we have right now is solely our own. You have hardware, we, and the rest of the world subset that would like to run AmigaOS4, don't

As long as PPC is all that's available, yours is an exclusive "limited edition" club that leaves most of us out in the cold, either due to hardware total lack of availability, limited availability, or price.

This problem doesn't affect those of YOU who already have hardware, we understand that.

This problem does affect US, and the rest of the world's potential AmigaOS4 users. PLEASE understand that.

This isn't an us vs. them thing.



Yes, as a CEO ;o) I can fully understand that and mostly agree. But, even if I know the Hyperion guys and all the others involved in OS4 are "grown enought" to take every aversion of life, I think it could sometimes be frustrating reading a lot of complains of what was done wrong and pressure like:
C - when will we get upd 4!?!
H - Soon!
C - but you told there will be no more updates until os4 final!
H - unforunatly we have a lack of HW so for your happyness we're releasing upd4
C- ok, but we still haven't upd4. When will we get it!?
H - in two weeks
C - next week the two weeks are over, upd4 isn't still there. We want upd4 when will we get it?!
C - When it's done
C - You see, if you haven't made that wrong decision with PPC...
.
.

IMHO, i think, we should ask or make suggestions for which game we'd like to have ported to os4 and we're going to buy from them..finally I think they got "our" proposal of wanting os4x86....
I still think PPC is the way. At least for the next one two years. For me, I'm really unsicure if porting to x86 is worth the effort ATM..Having os4x86 IMHO doesn't automatically mean more users, look at zeta or QNX, they have more software and an uptodate browser but there are very few people knowing of its existence...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Amigo1 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 16:40:38
#326 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1582
From: the Clouds

@T_Bone

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Amigo1 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 16:42:00
#327 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1582
From: the Clouds

@T_Bone

Quote:

T_Bone wrote:
@Amigo1

Not at the moment, I've got those 24 threads to start.


 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
T_Bone 
Compliment, not replace. Synergy, not changes in direction.
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 16:42:23
#328 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Sep-2003
Posts: 3043
From: here To: there

@captainmoomoo

Quote:
3. There is no chance that AOS will be ported to x86, and some of the arguments that I have heard for this are absolutely ridiculous and make me positively cringe.


Well, so far Hyperion react negatively to almost all mention of x86.

This is partly our fault. We haven't been able to bring the subject up very well without it turning into an x86 "vs" PPC issue rather than a strategy where an x86 AmigaOS situation would complement the existing direction. There's NO REASON anything PPC related needs to change or should change at all. Hyperion say they have embedded aspirations that require PPC. That requires AmigaOS PPC. That requires PPC hardware. That requires PPC applications. This does not change but AmigaOne owners repeatedly argue against anything x86 as if you're trying to replace everything they have with something else.

Hyperion, if they ported AmigaOS to x86, would be able to do business in the embedded market in both x86 and PPC environments. AmigaOS applications written for OS4 would be available to both environments. Developer machines running AmigaOS4 would be available in both environments. AmigaOne owners (once they opened up to the idea) could have AmigaOS Laptops in addition to their AmigaOnes, with all the same software available to both. We'd still need Troika after all, as you can't do embedded in both x86 and PPC unless you have hardware for both available.

Hyperion would have a more attractive product all around, and be more attractive to it's embedded customers. We'd have much more choice in hardware, and we'd even be able to survive the ocassional "PPC Hardware" drought that will realistically happen as in the past. During these droughts I'm sure most would make their x86 Laptop purchases

Some side effects... Community healing. (or from a Red POV anyway, as we really would have a product range with synergy that kicks all other Amiverse related projects IN THE BALLS)... possibly an influx of previously alienated (during the color wars) developers from MOS/xOS lusting a modern AmigaOS Laptop to develop on... Amithlon refugees "holy #### it's native now!"... these people would then be interested in coding specifically for AmigaOS again, which would feedback into Hyperion's PPC (and possibly new x86 business) embeded plans in the form of more developers writing apps that could be used there.

What would be needed to accomplish all this? not much, just a port to x86 to be made available in addition to the current PPC line. The hardware is already available, so nothing needed there, just decide what would be easy to support, doesn't even have to be set in stone, it can be changed at whim, so long as you don't do anything Amiga Incish like try to use custom hardware rather than regular corner store stock.

How long would that take?

"I chatted briefly with Thomas Frieden after the IRC session held in late december regarding porting OS4 to x86. He estimated that a port to x86, excluding the emulator would take twice the time it would take to port it to another PPC machine. Given previous statements that a port to another PPC motherboard is 1-3 months of work, I think 2-6 months for a port of the OS itself is a reasonable guesstimate. IMO it's more than worth it. " -Vidar Langberget

So theoretically (realistically? I don't know) it might even be feasable before we'd even have new PPC hardware anyway.

Or we could remain faithfull that things will fix themselves through inaction, and sit here with no hardware. Seriously, I think everyone would have to be nuts not to give this a chance, worst case scenario, we spend the time quoted above for the port and decide against it, and it's possible we'd be waiting for new PPC hardware that whole time anyway. (which by the way, will also require a port, as quoted above)

Hyperion, if you could somehow find a way to make this work, I'm sure we could more than make it worth your while. (and you wouldn't have to listen to people complaining about lack of hardware ever ahain! )

And, um... Dave Haynie might approve

Oh yea, and AmigaOS sales would only be limited by the market and how fast you can press CD's, rather than being limited by PPC hardware availability. (although they certainly could still be made available)

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Nibunnoichi 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 16:47:31
#329 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 969
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

@Thread

First of all - even if i'm a bit late on it - let me say that i'm really amazed and proud to see Mr. Haynie posting here!! Thank you for all the great work you did for the Amiga.

Back on topic, all i can say is that i'm with those who'd welcome an x86 port, for the reasons already stated by others, price and availability in the first place.
I really don't get why running AOS on a PPC should mark it as beign more "amigaish" than running it on another processor. After all you're already running it on other hardware in the form of graphic and sound cards (and other off the shelf components), wich were the distinctive sign of Amiga so you shoudn't call "Amiga" the Aone, from this point of view. And the motherboard is alien hardware too, given that its just a modified design (even custom designs such as and ACK/Troika/Peg aren't Amiga).
Today, Amiga means just the OS, IMHO.
Notice that i'm saying this with all respect due to those who pulled out their own money in the first place (not only Eyetech but whe should count BBRV here too, even if i don't like them very much :p).
For these very same reasons i don't see the point in porting it to Peg too, apart from trying to attract customers from that side.

P.S.: don't get me wrong, i'll buy whatever hardware will let me run AOS4, regardless, but we must realize that not everybody in the world is a fanboy.

Last edited by Nibunnoichi on 14-Jan-2006 at 04:48 PM.

_________________
Proud Amigan since 1987
Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pixie 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 17:05:12
#330 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3115
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@Plexus

Quote:

Im with you all the way Hyperion Entertainment!

I think no one is against Hyperion here... just expressing their thoughts

Quote:

Let people complain, but hey we dont listen to da Crappy Talks!


If expressing other views, unregarded of their content are seen as Crappy talk, I don't even know what are you doing here... obviously you have no respect for other opinions then your own, you could might as well talk to the mirror and congratulate yourself for the magnificient being you are.

Quote:

Amiga for me and many many others this days, is:
AmigaOS4 and PowerPC architectures!


The problem is 'you' are getting less and less along the time... We once had about 3 million Amiga users, reality check is that nowadays we have about 10 thousand maybe less users... People are exploring solutions, of course Amiga market has no problem whatsoever to solve, but people like to answer problems nonetheless...

Quote:

And People, Forget the Amiga on crappy X86 HW!

Is that because you can't imagine what speed AmigaOS would have on X86 that you say it is crappy for the sake of it? Can it be it?

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
VidarL 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 17:30:49
#331 ]
Member
Joined: 16-May-2003
Posts: 75
From: Unknown

Bernd Meyer have posted a very interesting look at how he would implement 68k emulation in a x86 OS:

http://flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/125942.shtml

Vidar

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
T_Bone 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 18:10:14
#332 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Sep-2003
Posts: 3043
From: here To: there

@Plexus

Quote:

Plexus wrote:

Let people complain, but hey we dont listen to da Crappy Talks!


Yup, Discussion about how to solve the lack of hardware problem is
certainly an unpopular topic among PEOPLE WHO ALREADY HAVE THEIR HARDWARE!
Quote:

My Computer:
AmigaOne XE 800 Mhz & Amiga OS 4.0 pre dev, update 3
ATI Radeon 7000 AGP, 512 MB sdram and 80 Gb HD.


I'm going to hunt you down, take the machine listed above from you, and then see
how interesting the topic suddenly is to you as you try to find something to replace it with, smartypants.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
dolen 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 18:34:08
#333 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 90
From: Sweden

@Plexus

Support the upcomming hardware instead?
What hardware?
Apple has moved out and the production of the g3/g4 is probobly down, G5 does not have a market anymore.
The embedded cpu´s is the only path! And I want AOS4 on the desktop!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Anonymous 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 19:20:40
# ]

0
0

It's good to hear your views on Be, Dave, as I agree totally.

So many companies are faced with Microsoft as a competitor and promptly re-focus (forget why they exist and run away)

It happened at the software company I worked for and it destroyed it. I still remember the corporate party when I felt like everyone had been brain-washed to not see the big f**-off storm coming over the next hill.

So, I just wish people would just ignore these kinds of pressures and worries, and work on building a userbase and growing (or shrinking) the company with it.

I'm sure Zeta are doing ok from that policy and I think Hyperion would do very nicely from an x86 port. I'm not asking them to go through it again with a kind of "I've told you a hundred times" line - I understand their policy, but I just still disagree with it and that's my prerogative.

The only thing I disagree with Dave on is the cutting edge. We don't have to live on the cutting edge 100% of the time. It's obviously a bit sad when somebody denies that a cutting edge exists anywhere, or doesn't flirt with the cutting edge at least occasionally, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy patching up old Amigas or using an AmigaOne. People enjoy the strangest things, and that's life!

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 14-Jan-2006 at 07:21 PM.

 
     Report this post  
tomazkid 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 19:24:32
#335 ]
Team Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11694
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

@T_Bone

Quote:
Yup, Discussion about how to solve the lack of hardware problem is
certainly an unpopular topic among PEOPLE WHO ALREADY HAVE THEIR HARDWARE!


Just don't mention the x86
Let's call the x86 "that other cpu" from now on

And don't go too hard on Plexus, he is an ok bloke.

Last edited by tomazkid on 14-Jan-2006 at 07:29 PM.

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
tomazkid 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 19:29:01
#336 ]
Team Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11694
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

@dolen

Quote:
Apple has moved out and the production of the g3/g4 is probobly down, G5 does not have a market anymore.


Speculation unless you can give direct links to press-releases from either IBM or Freescale .

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
dolen 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 20:30:36
#337 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 90
From: Sweden

@tomazkid

Yes! Its speculation but why should they continue the line of g4 when apple does´nt want them anymore!
Genesi will buy a few but not millions! So the prize will be hugh!
Freescale claimed themselves that the´re out of the desktop market! Read the Genesi blogs.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
T_Bone 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 20:36:06
#338 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Sep-2003
Posts: 3043
From: here To: there

@tomazkid

Quote:

tomazkid wrote:
@T_Bone

Quote:
Yup, Discussion about how to solve the lack of hardware problem is
certainly an unpopular topic among PEOPLE WHO ALREADY HAVE THEIR HARDWARE!


Just don't mention the x86
Let's call the x86 "that other cpu" from now on

And don't go too hard on Plexus, he is an ok bloke.


Aw hell, I won't hurt him, I'm just going to take his hardware.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hammer 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 20:45:04
#339 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@Vikke

Quote:

Vikke wrote:


If CELL will prove to not be the saviour of the Amiga OS on PPC, then after taht the only way would be to move it to x86-64, but i feel the CELL-way should be at least tried and pursued before going the way of 'me-too's. CELL is more or less what the Amiga was in 1985, so this could be a new start... and perhaps even Dave could become involved, when being able to render video faster on the Amiga than any other computer :)

-Vikke

Unlike the Amiga in 1985, Cell doesn’t have 7 year advantage.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hammer 
Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
Posted on 14-Jan-2006 21:24:51
#340 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@minator

Quote:
The PPE and it's higher clock speed alone will give a hefty boost compared to what is/was available in the Amiga market.

Notice the performance cloth simulation on PPE's VMX vs Pentium IV i.e. less than 10 percent. The G5’s VMX is quite competitive against Pentium IV. Clock speed alone doesn’t equal performance.

Quote:
Cell is already on the market, see Mercury's announcement last week.

Not quite in the market.
"Availability of the Dual Cell-Based Blade is planned for Q1 of calendar 2006, and production is planned for the following quarter" i.e. Q2 2006.

In the imaging market, Cell would be in competition with GpGPU manufactures and vendors offering GpGPU array based systems. GpGPU is also spreading to DSP applications. GpGPUs are already targeting RT ray-trace (with DX9c).

Quote:
By the time x86 can go quad core you will be able to put 2 Cells on a chip and they'll scale better.

SPU’s main weakness is double precision floats and IEEE 754 compliancy.
You can't run general purpose code on SPU. X64 cores is directly competition with PPE, while GpGPU is against SPU. PS; Both Opteron and GpGPU also scales nicely.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle