@samface

Quote:

In the form as AmigaOS4 exists today, yes.

Then the question becomes again: how do you know it?

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“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@samface

So, let's see... Without discontinued, overpriced and underperforming hardware, AmigaOS4 would not have existed? Note that I'm all for the PowerPC, or at least I was 'till pretty recently, but for different reasons. If having a PowerPC OS means not having any hardware to run it on or having to pay a thousand pounds for a seriously outdated computer, no thank you, x86 all the way.

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@AMiGR

sorry misinterpretation i guess

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Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.

@AMiGR

Quote:

If having a PowerPC OS means not having any hardware to run it on or having to pay a thousand pounds for a seriously outdated computer

well it is possible that that part of the buisness is gone anyway. ainc, and hyperion both have stated we are not their target audience. embedded is what they want so any system they put out for development is acceptable.

anyway i think it is silly to limit their embedded systems to ppc anyway(unless the goal is to get enough orders of ppc embedded systems to subsidize the port, maybe even get a client to subsidize it.)

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Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.

@AMiGR
No, his suggestion (I'm unsure it's a fact, but it may be) was that the A1 sales were needed to pay for the work on OS4. If this is indeed the case, and there was no other funding to be found, then it's possible we are 'where we are' as a result of that, but it did move OS4 forward, regardless of the timeline/many slipped schedules. That _might_ even explain some of the lack of interest in porting to Mac previously as well, licensing issues or non-issues aside, but now in the absence of A1/EyeTech hardware, perhaps things are far along to entertain additional ports in the reasonably near future.

If the above is not a fact, then it makes far less sense IMO to have pursued the hardware lock that was done, but again it also seems possible/likely that AInc have had their had in things with respect to 'allowed hardware' as has been stated elsewhere...which certainly is not the ideal situation. Unfortunately, there is little to be done about it now, other than to see if it's possible to improve future decisions.

Whomever mentioned open-sourcing the HAL may be on to something interesting, if the OS4 HAL is 'complete' in that no hardware specific dependencies or workarounds exist outside of the HAL, and maybe we'll see it happen, or alternatively if the HAL is well-documented enough, that would allow a re-implementation by anyone interested (although an open source, or even NDA source agreement for the existing HAL would be preferable).

That being done would require OS4 be sold standalone, like it will have to be for the classics, which will likely lead to some amount of piracy, but as has been stated, piracy to some extents is also essentially free advertising. If they desired, a scheme could also be worked out where OS/driver updates are driven by user registration, or value-added software only available to registered OS4 customers. That wouldn't stop piracy, but might make it appealing enough for additional people to purchase legitimately. And when it comes down to it, sales are sales, and sales = $.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@thread


saying amigaone is outdated and bugged maybe true.
but so were cyberstorm and blizzard ppc for amiga classic.
everyone knew it, but still ppl bought some.
why?

because, we're not in the megahertz race. every amigan with a brain knew it at that time. sure it would be sweet , but it's not the case.

what really matter is to be able to do what nowdays computer can do, but on amiga.
play videos, making movies, 3d modeling, making music, games, mails, internet
browsing...etc.

so we have problems on few fronts, but thoses are being corected progresively.
like 3d, movie making , inet browsing ..

but we aren't in the mhz race, let's face it.
on the other hand, if you can do same things on your amiga like your mate does it on his peecee, then it's good.
because amigaos experience is diffrent, better, faster. the os compensate for hardware a lil bit outdated.. well, i don't mind.
i don't care. i can watch movies, irc-ing, mail and lots of other things i'm supposed to be able to do with a computer.

linux is twisted and messy
windoze is a ####..
comeon make your pick ;)

i hate to hear that stupid excuses of ppl saying "outdated hardware"
big news it was already the case with 68060 vs pentium 75mhz back in the days

what was important is that i liked better my amiga 060 than m$crap95 running on intel. i could do the same thing, just better with amiga.
and it's still true. so buy an amigaone.
or die and buy a peecee with winxplamah ;)

well, if it's for aros or linux it's not THAT bad but ..

I'm just reading this stuff and was just thinking. If OS4 did go to x86 it would probably kill off AROS. I for one think that would be a shame. I think it would be better to leave AROS the king of the x86 and let OS4 go in another direction. The current PowerPC is fine for doing most anything you want on a computer. I will be using mine for a long time to come.

@nzv58l

Kill off AROS exactly... how?

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@nzv58l

Quote:

I'm just reading this stuff and was just thinking. If OS4 did go to x86 it would probably kill off AROS. I for one think that would be a shame. I think it would be better to leave AROS the king of the x86 and let OS4 go in another direction.

I don't see this one happening, myself. AROS is open-source, and free, and that alone will appeal to some and/or make it of more interest to them. As AROS is also re-implementing the 3.X API, there are already going to be some differences.

Additionally, as AROS matures/moves further along, it's possible for it to go in directions different from OS4 itself, or vice versa. (May already be happening, I'm only casually aware of AROS going-ons)..

There's also no binary compatibility between the two, which right now would make some difference due to older apps without source...this may become less of an issue in the future.

Either way, the two (AROS and OS4) would share similar heritage yet remain different, even if both available on the same platform to not at least affect one another short-term IMO. Longer term, unknown but unlikely...

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@smithy

There are two ways to combat piracy: you can either give up and go work for the public sector. Or you can make your product so unattractive that nobody wants it anyway. Amiga's solution of over-priced, under-performing hardware with serious supply problems meant they obviously went for the second option.

~~~~~~~

The elevator was never broken - somebody just pressed the DOWN button. And now they've gotten out and started digging.



Great taglines...
(Not ment as a troll, made me laugh first time this week..)

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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@TheodoreTwinky

Nice to see you post Welcome aboard.. Bit late (considering the join date) but as you forgot to post until now...

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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@nzv58l

I disagree about OS4 killing AROS. We have a very good counterexample: Linux and Windows. Both are complex OSs competing in the same space. Windows is (you have to admit) a lot better than Linux when it comes to ordinary users who don't want to worry about a hardware compatibility list, and which version of glibc you're running. Yes, windows has a lot of problems, but it is undeniably the most popular OS out there. Sure, you get windows with every PC you buy, but you have to consider how many people keep using Windows, especially when you consider that installing Linux is just a matter of downloading a CD image and using it to overwrite the Windows that came with your box. However, despite this Linux is not anywhere even close to dead; it has a vibrant user community that don't really care about userbase, but about having fun with their computers. I see AROS and AmigaOS as being in a similar situation: AmigaOS is the more popular closed-source version, while AROS is the scrappy open source variant that won't go away (mind you, in the AmigaOS vs AROS case the difference isn't nearly as marked as it is in the Windows vs Linux case, but considering how many OS4 users there are, even before we have hardware to run it on, I think it's a no-brainer. Unless we end up with *no* OS4 hardware at all, and AROS will end up on top by virtue of actually *having* hardware to run on...)

@Seer

Been browsing for a few days
Mainly read, contemplate and think

@TheodoreTwinky

Mainly read, contemplate and think

And the verdict is ?

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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After all that different companies has put the Amiga through, (and I dont mean the developers) i would rather trust the opensource aros to make it. Itś a shame it hasńt got more attention from amiga users.
If aros was near as useful as OS4 there would be no demand for OS4/MOS. (hypothetic I know)
Just think of it, a free download that every geek who has the knowhow/time can improve on. And also run on the fastest/cheapest hardware there is. No company can compete with that.
That is 1 dollar for burning the CDr verses 1000 dollars for bying a whole new system that does not even match the PC hardware you allready have. (probably) Much more chance to improve on the userbase!
But we have allready been there a lot in this thread now. A lot of things will happen this year. Lets see what happens. I hope for the best!

@falemagn

Quote:

falemagn wrote: @samface Quote: In the form as AmigaOS4 exists today, yes. Then the question becomes again: how do you know it?

Like I tried to explain to you before, Hyperion was the ones that stepped up when noone else did. As we all know, all other parties that Amiga Inc. had tried to negotiate with before Hyperion failed. Amiga Inc. had come to a dead end and would have had no option but to fallback on their original plan to discontinue the classic AmigaOS product line if it wasn't for Hyperion. For this reason, you simply cannot take Hyperion out of the equation.

Please don't go wandering down the hypothetical situations lane any further, it's pointless nor will anything constructive come out of it. Just accept the fact that the AmigaOS4 project wouldn't be without Hyperion and Eyetech. The discussion is about wether we should have gone for the open PC market instead of the PPC and the AmigaOne and it's pretty clear that such project wouldn't have been viable with the given circumstances. No point in contemplating that any further. The future, however, is still an unwritten page. Although no doors have been closed, our resources are severly limited and we need to take things one step at a time.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@Seer

We should get OS4 to run on some sort of fruit. Possibly an orange.

@samface

Quote:

Why do YOU avoid addressing the point I made that AmigaOS4 would not even exist if it wasn't because they had a hardware provider willing to start selling the hardware before the OS was finished and use the profit to finance the AmigaOS4 project? Recognize this fact and all other arguments you could possibly have about why they should have targetted the open PC market instead of cooperating with a dedicated hardware provider such as Eyetech becomes null and void.

Nothing fancy, nothing as hard and problematic as what happened on PPC. Just open a subscription, like a 100$ pre-sale of OS4 on x86. You don't even have to start porting it, you can specify that no work will be done on it till you reach 1000 subscribers for example (gives you 100000$ cash to start the port, more than enough if I recall one of Hyperion's developpers talking about a 10000$ cost - correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they'd be quite happy with that money).

So now let's talk again Mr Sincerity

Quote:

Recognize this fact and all other arguments you could possibly have about why they should have targetted the open PC market instead of cooperating with a dedicated hardware provider such as Eyetech becomes null and void.

If that's the reason why you won't answer my replies to your blatant myths, I'm sorry but why did you express them in the first place?

I'm sorry for you, but Amiga OS (I'm talking about the original, the times where we still had the lead and were laughing at other users pathetics efforts to distort the truth) has given its users razor sharp FUD detection skills :P

So take my advice or not, but if ever you want to spread myths again, you'll be more successfull on Windows forums (you might even make a great writer for some Windows magazines out there :) )

@ChrisH

Quote:

No, I think you should be realistic. Moaning at Hyperion won't change a thing. You will have to stick your money where your mouth is - either pay Hyperion to port OS4 to x86 (very costly I suspect), or support the already existing Amiga x86 called AROS.

I fully agree with that. On the other hand, a nice and easy way to allow me to support OS4 port to x86 would be allowing me to cash 100$ as a subscription. They could take 4 months or 4 years to deliver, I wouldn't mind at all.

In fact, asking me to cash 800$ (I don't have them anyway) to run OS4 on Cell (the first version) in *FOUR* years is out of the question. In four year, today's Cell will just be an outdated processor anyway. Cashing 100$ is more reasonnable, especially because on x86, even if the OS ships in 4 years, I'll still be able to run it on modern hardware at this time.

Oh, and another benefit : Hyperion would stop any whinning from those that want to run OS4 :)
(Not that we're whinning anyways. Just a bit upset when people repeat the same myths with the same attitude that sank the boat years ago - I wouldn't be surprised if Irvin Gould and Mehdi Ali were using the same myths as those we can hear in this thread)

Last edited by t3g on 25-Jan-2006 at 01:26 AM.

@TheodoreTwinky

Quote:

TheodoreTwinky wrote: @Seer We should get OS4 to run on some sort of fruit. Possibly an orange.

Make it an Apple.

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"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde