@VidarL

Quote:

VidarL wrote: @hatschi Quote: Do the "talking against a wall" comments,these statements, the "*cough* next question please" in IRC and various other comments sound as if there is great communication going on between them? No, but I didn't say that either. I just said that Amiga Inc read emails sent to them. How, when or what they answer is another matter. My **GUESS** is that Amiga Inc wants more money if Hyperion ports OS4 to non-A1 hardware, and that Hyperion is unwilling due to the extra effort they have put into OS4.. Maybe we'll never know the truth..

My guess (take it with a grain of salt) is that Amiga Inc is behind "the next" hardware coming out, maybe finacially or just by letting the "hardware people" take free rides with their motorbike any time they like.

That's why they rather wait for "it" to be ready instead of
licensing OS4 to anything else.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@gnarly
Quote:

gnarly wrote: @wegster Quote: So, while I'm still at a total loss as to why someone with no Amiga exposure whatsoever would even want to write such an article, or why OSNews would bother to even post it... Thom ond his readers obviously have a passing itnerest in platforms other than the mainstream. Many don't know the situation surrounding the Amiga at present. Seems like a nice little topic to mull over on a Sunday afternoon.

Yes, but I also expect some facts with the editorial content, moreso if I'd expect it was going to be read by many. Otherwise, yes, I take offense. It isn't 'only' his article, I used to write editors of clueless Linux 'writers' back in the dayl. If you're going to write something that's going to be read by many, do your homework before writing it, period. Also, making a clear delineation between 'fact' and editorial content is usually a nicety not often seen...or worse, understood by some readers.

Quote:

Quote: Oh, was the 'point' that the situation is pathetic? Sorry, everyone knows that one already, no 'news' there... Do they? We do, obviously, because we read the forums all the time. Not so obvious for anybody who doesn't religiously frequent these fora though. Anyway, dropping the subject now...

Yeah, possibly true enough RE: OS4 status etc, but one might also think there have been enough AOS articles on OS4News in the past, and the occasional slashdot bit. If it was a simple factual article, I suppose I'd have less of an issue with it, but why write an article about OS4 without any links whatsoever (os4 home page, screenshots, etc)? That, as well as it's content, makes it appear much more of a rant or tirade than anything to be taken seriously.

Last edited by wegster on 27-Mar-2006 at 09:12 PM.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Quote:

Yes, but I also expect some facts with the editorial content, moreso if I'd expect it was going to be read by many. Otherwise, yes, I take offense. It isn't 'only' his article, I used to write editors of clueless Linux 'writers' back in the dayl. If you're going to write something that's going to be read by many, do your homework before writing it, period. Also, making a clear delineation between 'fact' and editorial content is usually a nicety not often seen...or worse, understood by some readers.

There IS a clear distinction. This is NOT an article, but a COLUMN. It is CLEARLY marked as such, mr Wegster. I expect a more thorough approach from someone who made it to forum moderator.

Also, you are insinuating there are factual errors in the article ('do your homework before writing it, period'), so I ask you, like some have asked others who are claiming the same: please point out the factual errors.

It seems to me you simply cannot handle that someone brought this on the frontpage of a not-so-small website, shining a partial dimmed light over your community. I can uinderstand that from a casual forum dweller, but not from someone who is a moderator.

@Thom_Holwerda

It's quite simple really.

Just like being a writer on a web site, forum moderation is something you "earn" in the sense that you're supposed to be level headed, unbiased and able to judge somewhat objectively. You know when to stay out of things and you have the knowledge (or ability to gain it) when you have to figure out what's what in a discussion.

To be honest I'd have expected more of an OSNews writer too (as I've said on a previous occasion). But at least I can see in the comments that the Amiga stories aren't the only ones getting this kind of treatment.

Oh, and for the record: Wegster represents all of the virtues mentioned above in my book.

-- edit:

As for doing your homework:
It's not really that hard to search on a site like this or using google in order to find out the reason why your "options" aren't options. That is what I'd call homework in your situation.

Last edited by Trezzer on 27-Mar-2006 at 09:53 PM.

@Trezzer

Beating around the bush. Still no factual errors identified in my article. And until someone points out the factual errors, mr Wegster is simply lying and therefore not suited as a moderator.

THAT is simply, really.

Quote:

It's not really that hard to search on a site like this or using google in order to find out the reason why your "options" aren't options. That is what I'd call homework in your situation.

Did you read the column? I even explained that every option is highly unlikely! I SPECIFICALLY explainend why each option is unlikely!

And when I was done with that, I said: from an outsider's POV, the Peg seems like the best way to go.

Now you again. And here's the passage:

In conclusion, all the possibilities seem rather unlikely. The best option, looking at it from an outsider's perspective who doesn't bear any grudges and old fueds on his shoulders, the Pegasos route seems the best option.

Last edited by Thom_Holwerda on 27-Mar-2006 at 09:58 PM.
Last edited by Thom_Holwerda on 27-Mar-2006 at 09:56 PM.

@Thom_Holwerda

Why would you look at "options" in this light:
Quote:

I am not knowledgeable enough to figure out how much work exactly would be involved in porting Amiga OS4 to x86, but I think we're safe to say it would be a pretty daunting task.

When clearly this is not even an "option" to begin with?
Amiga Inc.:
Quote:

A formal approach for the AmigaOS would first of all require that the product be a PPC platform.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

Quote:

Thom_Holwerda wrote: [quote] Beating around the bush. Still no factual errors identified in my article. And until someone points out the factual errors, mr Wegster is simply lying and therefore not suited as a moderator.

I found your article relativelly cheap and overly negative toned. As I allways say, criticism without any solution is reserved for ppl, who are incabable/incompetent more. You absolutely got pole. Sometimes it is acceptable and constructive after all. Not in this case, it seems.

About @wegsters suitability act here as moderator ... he is one most respected person in this very site. So I think, that he suits for us
He has quite wide experience outside amiga and it gives perspective. This is only one thing, why he is good in his job...

You may not have slightest idea, what is going on behind scenes. When you pointed out Amigaing/hyperion relation, you didn't any connection to hw vendor/vendors.

Anyway your article was most underivative, what I remember from past to this day.

Quote:

In conclusion, all the possibilities seem rather unlikely. The best option, looking at it from an outsider's perspective who doesn't bear any grudges and old fueds on his shoulders, the Pegasos route seems the best option.

You have at least some information about our community... anyway last nice try and another cheap punch. I have news for you, Red-Blue war is over.

From Sir Alex Ferguson. Some people says, that footbal is whole life. I'm dissapointed with them, it is much more.

For Amiga users it is same, for somebody more, somebody less. So don't be surprised, what you get.

Sorry, my text is not maybe very good, but I don't think either, that I'm a writer or cabable for it

@Thom_Holwerda

Quote:

Beating around the bush. Still no factual errors identified in my article. And until someone points out the factual errors, mr Wegster is simply lying and therefore not suited as a moderator.

I actually find it fairly accurate but I do have a problem with the following:

Quote:

Due to the opennes of the Pegasos platform, any vendor can use the schematics provided by Genesi to build Pegasos clones.

Thats just not reality. Too few details have been released at this point for a manufacturer to produce a motherboard. In time it may come but it's not there yet. Additionally I don't see people lining up to produce this hardware.

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But if Hyperion and Amiga Inc. are not able to pull their heads out of the sand-

This is assuming that Hyperion has their heads buried in the sand. I personally feel that Hyperion is doing everything they can to bring OS4 to market.

Quote:

Yet, only three men and a cow are able to actually run the damn thing.

This to me implies that only a small group of special people or Devs have access to the hardware. In reality the motherboards were sold by several distributors and multiple production runs were sold out. We still have tops maybe two or three thousand boards out there but thats a bit different.

_________________
Micro A1 866 Mhz and AmigaOS 4.1
PowerMac G4 1.4 Ghz and MorphOS 2.7

@Thom_Holwerda

Of course I read it. Otherwise I wouldn't comment it. And your wording was also the reason why I was much gentler in my comments than last time (mentioning the uncertainty etc).

Now, did you read Wegster's comment? He didn't say there were factual errors. He said there was a lack of facts - and suggested you did your homework. With which I can only agree.

Now, I suggest you apologize to Wegster for calling him a liar.

@Thom_Holwerda

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Still no factual errors identified in my article.

How about these ones.....

Quote:

the Pegasos route seems the best option. The problems are more emotional than technical.

Quote:

But if Hyperion and Amiga Inc. are not able to pull their heads out of the sand-- that is, to forget past grudges and move on for the sake of the platform--

Oh and then theres the fact you completely dismiss the possibility that the Amy05 and PowerVixxen have any chance of seeing the light of day.

Your article is one sided, it comes across as wanting to convince people that AmigaOS4 will fail. This is why people are upset.

Last edited by Turambar on 27-Mar-2006 at 10:49 PM.

_________________
I’m the dandy highwayman who you’re too scared to mention
I spend my cash on looking flash and grabbing your attention

@Turambar

Quote:

How about these ones..... Quote: the Pegasos route seems the best option. The problems are more emotional than technical.

Ehm, isn't this a fact? For xyz emotional/political reasons, Amiga Inc refuses to grant a licence.
There's no technical reason whatsoever for which such a port is not feasible.

_________________

@AMiGR

The only fact there is that a license hasn't been granted. The reasons behind it are unknown so saying its for "emotional" reasons cant be considered a fact.

_________________
I’m the dandy highwayman who you’re too scared to mention
I spend my cash on looking flash and grabbing your attention

@Thom_Holwerda

Quote:

Thom_Holwerda wrote: @wegster Quote: Yes, but I also expect some facts with the editorial content, moreso if I'd expect it was going to be read by many. Otherwise, yes, I take offense. It isn't 'only' his article, I used to write editors of clueless Linux 'writers' back in the dayl. If you're going to write something that's going to be read by many, do your homework before writing it, period. Also, making a clear delineation between 'fact' and editorial content is usually a nicety not often seen...or worse, understood by some readers. There IS a clear distinction. This is NOT an article, but a COLUMN. It is CLEARLY marked as such, mr Wegster. I expect a more thorough approach from someone who made it to forum moderator.

And I expected more from someone who made it to be a writer, like perhaps sharing at least relevant bits about an OS as a 'summary for those that don't know the current state.' Let's not even discuss 'thorough' as it pertains to the article...I'm quite sure you've gotten my impression that word doesn't belong in the same breath as your article!

Quote:

Also, you are insinuating there are factual errors in the article ('do your homework before writing it, period'), so I ask you, like some have asked others who are claiming the same: please point out the factual errors.

Already did so previously, comments about Peg previously, as well as the 'ability' to get any hardware vendor (your 'most logical' but highly unlikely/impossible bit..) to produce hardware for you. 'Doing your homework' would also give relevant links to what real information exists.

Obviously, if instead you were writing it as a negative piece in entirety, then you can stop the claim of presenting a summary of facts, as again, I find the fact there were no links given to any of the companies involved, nor to the OS4 homepage, nor screenshots....to simply be at odds with that intended purpose of giving any sort of summary. So, if your intention was to persuade others through a lack of providing them anywhere to find out _anything_ on the subject other thatn your interpretation, I suppose you've....succeeded. Congratulations?

Quote:

It seems to me you simply cannot handle that someone brought this on the frontpage of a not-so-small website, shining a partial dimmed light over your community. I can uinderstand that from a casual forum dweller, but not from someone who is a moderator.

Staff certainly DO have opinions, and you can certainly feel free to point to somewhere where I personally have tried to stifle others opinions...actually, please do. There are more than enough 'dimmed light' type threads and discussions out there, or were you instead perhaps putting more weight in your own words than they warrant?

I don't even object to your perception of things, as I agree that it's an idiotic situation to find the future of OS4 in...what I object to is the sheer lack of any useful information, and the fact that casual readers will take your opinion as fact all too often, rather than doing any research on their own, and you've so conveniently left out any links to where further information can be found. I'd say it might be frustration, which is understandable, but you don't seem to have knowledge (your statement) or interest in it, so am left guessing as to the actual intent/reason to even write it.

Again, it's irresponsible writing, to put it simply. The 'power' of Internet writing: (applicable to more than your article)
1. It doesn't have to be true, enough people will believe it without backing it up, even when the original author doesn't.
2. Say it enough times, even more will believe it's true, regardless of 'facts' or not.
3. It's easier to have an effect in the original article than it is to counter it, once the original is put in front of enough people.
4. Anyone can claim to be an expert in nearly anything. That doesn't make it true, nor does it make a blog entry or story submitter a 'writer.'

So, bearing those in mind (which if you don't agree with, then write some more online, or look at typical tech or other news sites for a while...you'll see people that 'read it somewhere, so it must be true' syndrome all over..), yeah, I think it's pretty irresponsible, regardless of the content itself. If I had to guess at the intent, I'd have to go with FUD, not like there isn't enough there already.

Last edited by wegster on 27-Mar-2006 at 10:56 PM.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Mikey_C

Quote:

Mikey_C wrote: @ExiE I can't betray confidences. Sorry.

Can ye at least let us know if laptopt are involved????

PLEASE!!!

_________________
This sig. intentionally left blank

@wegster

Your reply would have been perfectly in place. if it wasn't for one tiny detail you refuse to acknowledge: this wasn't an article. It's a column, and clearly marked as such, with a link to a description of what the Sunday Eve Column entails.

If I 'marketed' this as an article, you'd have a really good point. But since that is NOT the case, your reply is out of place. It is none of my concern that people here at AW call this thing an article. It is NOT. Clearly.

Last edited by Thom_Holwerda on 27-Mar-2006 at 11:03 PM.

@Turambar

Quote:

Turambar wrote: @Thom_Holwerda [quote] Your article is one sided, it comes across as wanting to convince people that AmigaOS4 will fail. This is why people are upset.

I can't avoid feel, that article is writed for purpose. Upset ?? No. Maybe dissapointed, that it happend in respectable site like osnews.

@Thom_Holwerda
Oh yes, I missed this. Please explain to me where I am a 'liar.'

Or are you now claiming you are the 'keeper of the facts,' and while you can write something as an editorial/opinion that people will take as fact (mistakenly), you are the single person to judge others statements and opinions?

I did not call you a liar in my previous comments...I did call it irresponsible writing, and said you should have done your homework before publishing that piece, as a COLUMN (caps yours, not mine), editorial or factual article. I also questioned why someone with little knowledge and seemingly low interest, would even bother to write it.

It's basically sensationalistic writing with a strawman argument...you propose solutions that aren't, while not giving enough background information for people to see it. And no, wanting something to be doesn't mean it's a valid solution either...I'd still like to run OS4 on my PowerMac, or better yet, a PowerBook, but unfortunately, that doesn't seem likely in the near future.

But again, please point out where I am a liar.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Thom_Holwerda

Quote:

Thom_Holwerda wrote: @wegster Your reply would have been perfectly in place. if it wasn't for one tiny detail you refuse to acknowledge: this wasn't an article. It's a column, and clearly marked as such, with a link to a description of what the Sunday Eve Column entails. If I 'marketed' this as an article, you'd have a really good point. But since that is NOT the case, your reply is out of place. It is none of my concern that people here at AW call this thing an article. It is NOT. Clearly.

Thom - sure, I understand the distinction, but see the 'internet rules' I previously posted. Unfortunately, they're quite true, in that people all too often simply believe what they read/see/hear, regardless of the context. People like Rush Limbaugh and others play off of that, and while they're amusing,and the people who 'take it all as fact' may indeed be 'scary,' it's still the way it is. That alone is my biggest gripe with 'Internet editorials'...and they're quite damaging because of that behavior.

I'd love to see OS4 on _anything_, including the Peg, Amy '09 and a half, PS3, heck, I'd buy an IBM RSA (which does have video out and PPC) if it would run on it. I don't for a minute hide my annoyance with the vapor companies, lack of communication from most, etc, but nor do I post it to OSNews, either

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Thom_Holwerda

It seems that your article is mostly opinion and guess work, which I see nothing wrong with. I just don't agree with it.

It is really hard to know what is behind the curtain as far as Amiga Inc and Hyperion goes, but of all the companies I trust Hyperion the most. I say that by just knowing their history and their ability to deliver. If they say they are working with other hardware vendors then I have confidence that these hardware vendors will deliver.

If the new hardware players are going to deliver it would make the Peg port not nearly as important. If someone can make a machine that is cheaper that will definitly help things out. I think the Peg is more in the High end as far as cost just like the Eyetech offering. I think if I wanted to go to the high end at this point it would be better to wait for something running on a Cell processor. No, I don't expect Sony to jump on the Amiga band wagon.

I think the article is OK, but probably ill timed. I think the 10 or so users could be an exageration here though. Seems that A1's when available were being sold out all the time which means that Eyetech did not make enough to keep up with the demand. I would say that if Eyetech had made larger batches then they may have been able to sell them cheaper and still made a profit off of them. Even when I bought my A1 I had to wait for it.

I think the story will be a bit different a year from now. Could you do an article then?

I'm just optimistic, blinded by my passion for the Amiga and my A1 running OS4.

@wegster

Quote:

That alone is my biggest gripe with 'Internet editorials'...and they're quite damaging because of that behavior.

Yes, but your personal opinion on internet columns just as well applies to any column-- also in conventional printed media. Do you suggest no one writes his opinions anymore, anywhere?

And on the liar subject-- I apologize for that, I stepped out of line on that one. It's just that suggestions (not nescesarely by you) that I wrote the column with the sole intention of dissing Hyperion/Amiga/Amigans is a pretty serious accusation that I do not take lightly.

So, my apologies on that one. Heat of the moment, I'd say.