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      /  OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
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wegster 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 28-Mar-2006 17:54:41
#221 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@brotheris

Quote:
Yes, it's depressing, because in real world Amiga is over, possible momentum has been lost many moons ago, it will never be anything more than hobby platform. No world domination, etc etc etc.

Yep, but it's also reality (regarding hobby platform). I think the last hope for real momentum was lost when the QNX deal went south...timing-wise, there was still some interest, and it might have become something, regardless of people's feelings on QNX...sometimes timing is more important than the product. As time has passed since, the longer than time passes the less relevant the platform becomes, and the harder it will be to get 'anywhere' outside of a hobbyist OS. That doesn't mean it can't enjoy some sort of limited success (meaning the development is paid for with some profit), but the longer it takes to release, the longer it goes without hardware, the lower the interest level and relevancy.

I'm still amazed at the people who think it's going to 'take on' Microsoft in any way, shape, or form. Linux development efforts are now in the hundreds of millions of dollars in developer and corporate work, and is still fighting for desktop share. Likewise, OS X is barely making inroads perhaps past 5% desktop use, and makes for a lousy server OS, that Linux (as well as FreeBSD) at least does well in.

That doesn't mean there's no hope to ever become anything...nor that there's anything wrong with being a hobbyist OS, if people enjoy it and it's profitable enough for the companies involved, and maybe we'll see some surprise use of it at some point. Hyperion keeps saying embedded, and while I can't think of a specific thing AOS would be 'the best choice for,' that doesn't mean it's not possible, but it would take a pretty long amazing trip to even eventually (think 5-10 years of actual, real progress, with funding) have a chance at taking on a small desktop market share.

Quote:
Freescale shrugged when developers told, that MorphOS has 68k emulation and can run AmigaOS3.1 software, they just said "why?"

Yeah, that's kinda sad, but not entirely surprising.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

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brotheris 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 28-Mar-2006 18:43:39
#222 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-May-2005
Posts: 193
From: Unknown

@wegster

Quote:
nor that there's anything wrong with being a hobbyist OS, if people enjoy it


Yes, there is nothing wrong with that. Just plain fun while playing few games, doing some coding, etc. No blame games, no company "worshiping", no tries to find excuses for their incompetence.

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terminator 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 28-Mar-2006 23:14:02
#223 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 19-Nov-2003
Posts: 322
From: Unknown

@ssolie

Quote:
I think a vast majority of AW.net users are not 'angry' at all. There are a few vocal posters that didn't like it but that is about it. It is just a column. An opinion. Nothing more.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll just go back into my 'deep pit' of despair now. The whole Amiga experience is doomed to fail after all. And failure means someone else must be winning. And winning is the only thing that matters in this world.


Tell me about it.

When the A1 came on the market everyone complained about the price, but a few put their money down and got one.

When the uA1 went on sale, people were lined up to get one. When I posted the prices, everyone was eager to get one. But when I posted them to that other website, the first comment was "it costs too much".

Now they complain that hardware isn't available. Where were they when it was available. Seems there is a large disconnect between "apparent" demand, and actual demand.

I've even seen a Genesi rep make a complete fool of himself. Pretty sad when you have nothing to say about a "superior" product, and a lot of negative things to say about the A1.

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terminator 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 28-Mar-2006 23:24:46
#224 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 19-Nov-2003
Posts: 322
From: Unknown

@wegster

Quote:
Yep, but it's also reality (regarding hobby platform). I think the last hope for real momentum was lost when the QNX deal went south...timing-wise, there was still some interest, and it might have become something, regardless of people's feelings on QNX...sometimes timing is more important than the product.


QNX. Been there, done that, even got an "Embed with the Best" T-shirt.

When they came to our user group, the place was packed. Like sardines. Didn't even get that kind of turnout for Fleecy. Not that no one came to see and hear Fleecy, still a good crowd. But the QNX event attracted a lot of QNX developers.

After the QNX split, interest seemed to decline. Our UG declined to the point where it was 3 or four people, with an occasional unannounced visit by an Amiga VP.

That was what the Amiga UG was all about. It wasn't about long boring tutorials on how to save a file in Word, or what cool websites you could visit with internet exploiter. It was about cool ideas and technology, not boring productivity software used by boring PC owners.

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Colin_Camper 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 29-Mar-2006 0:10:37
#225 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2003
Posts: 1188
From: Unknown

@terminator

I remember when I got my QNX floppy and booted it - the same feeling I got when a mate gave me a Amiga floppy with full motion video of a 'colourful' nature and I played it on my A500.
It's a real shame Amiga didn't go QNX.

Quote:
Not that no one came to see and hear Fleecy, still a good crowd.


What is Fleecy up to these days - do you know? I notice he hasn't logged on here for 2 years now - pretty strange given his OS4 evangelising here on the 'Ask Fleecy'.

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terminator 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 29-Mar-2006 10:22:06
#226 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 19-Nov-2003
Posts: 322
From: Unknown

@Colin_Camper

Quote:

What is Fleecy up to these days - do you know? I notice he hasn't logged on here for 2 years now - pretty strange given his OS4 evangelising here on the 'Ask Fleecy'.


If I had to deal with the abuse that they hurl at him, I'd probably decide not to waste any time on them, or give them new reasons to attack.

Just because we hear little from them doesn't mean that the closed channels available to the developers are dead too. We don't know 10% of what is going on.

Which really bothers those who must know every minute detail, and think they have the right to examine the books, contracts etc. Which is probably why AI is so very quiet, trying reduce the damage that some of the uber-users may cause when they decide to get involved...

Some members of the "kommunity" do more harm than good.

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polka. 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 29-Mar-2006 10:46:14
#227 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2005
Posts: 1820
From: Tortuga

@Colin_Camper

Quote:
What is Fleecy up to these days - do you know? I notice he hasn't logged on here for 2 years now - pretty strange given his OS4 evangelising here on the 'Ask Fleecy'.


I guess he is still visiting the forums, but either as a guest or he just changed his nickname. Same goes for Garry Hare.

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Bodie_CI5 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 29-Mar-2006 11:10:14
#228 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2003
Posts: 6739
From: Unknown

@terminator

Quote:
terminator wrote:
If I had to deal with the abuse that they hurl at him, I'd probably decide not to waste any time on them, or give them new reasons to attack.


If this ultimately is the reason as to the non-communication with the community, then it is a poor reason. My job is one in which abuse is hurled a me on an all too often basis, both from within and from the general populace. Yet I am still there as are my fellow co-workers and those who are the delegates from my office. Non-existent communication is a very poor way of handling business when dealing in sales. How do such practitioners expect to get ahead when nothing is publicised? Noone is expecting that AInc divulge office procedures, minute details of a grand strategy etc. What they want is a little, though, honest summary of where things are, where they stand on certain issues and an honest assessment of the direction that they wish to pursue for the future, whether that be entitled "vision", "strategy", or a barebones "here it is". Quite possibly the Fleecy Q&A's were not lies but were optimistic assessments, however, as events turned out the facts were proven to be otherwise, and frankly, quite disappointing. I am not talking here of OS4 per se but of the whole Amiga scene, and it is easy to see why many users have become frustrated, nay, hostile towards AInc. The loss of credibility is a serious situation and nothing has been done to rectify that. I am not requesting that Fleecy et al come on-line and begin posting in the various threads on AW (or elsewhere for that matter), but a simple one or two paragraph statement in the form of a news article/announcement, would not go astray. Who cares if there are naysayers, naysayers exist in all realms of public and even in private life (we do not live in a utopia, obviously), the point is that they may indeed all be busy (as HMetal has stated here), but a one paragraph statement surely, would not take more than one day to compose.


Quote:

Which is probably why AI is so very quiet, trying reduce the damage that some of the uber-users may cause when they decide to get involved... Some members of the "kommunity" do more harm than good.


No one is denying that some of the present situation can be attributed to the virulent red/blue turf wars of the past few years, but this cannot be at the crux of the problem/s that we, as potential consumers are currently having to face.

And yes, some members of the "kommunity" do more harm than good, and yes, the it has always been a two-way street. A troll is a troll is a troll as they say.







-edit-
Fixed tag...

Last edited by Bodie_CI5 on 29-Mar-2006 at 11:10 AM.

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Bodie_CI5 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 29-Mar-2006 11:13:05
#229 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2003
Posts: 6739
From: Unknown

@polka.

Quote:
polka. wrote:
I guess he is still visiting the forums, but either as a guest or he just changed his nickname. Same goes for Garry Hare.


lol, you're very cheeky you know . I wonder what said person has to say about these allegations.

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polka. 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 29-Mar-2006 11:30:43
#230 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2005
Posts: 1820
From: Tortuga

@Bodie_CI5

Quote:
ol, you're very cheeky you know . I wonder what said person has to say about these allegations.


Well, I could even understand such a behaviour. Sometimes people just want their opinions to be looked at irrespective of their name, their origin, or their background. Moreover, I guess they don't want to be bugged all the time about their past or their current involvement with Amiga Inc.

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Bodie_CI5 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 29-Mar-2006 11:33:08
#231 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2003
Posts: 6739
From: Unknown

@polka.

True, very true.

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Colin_Camper 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 29-Mar-2006 11:40:37
#232 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2003
Posts: 1188
From: Unknown

@terminator

Quote:
If I had to deal with the abuse that they hurl at him, I'd probably decide not to waste any time on them, or give them new reasons to attack.


Well, Garry hare gave occasional matter-of-fact updates, summarised current thinking/goals and bluntly told people to mind their own business on certain issues and I don't recall him getting much abuse.

Quote:
Which really bothers those who must know every minute detail, and think they have the right to examine the books, contracts etc.


Yes, there may be a dozen individuals, half a dozen on this site (They use duplicate accounts so their bark is worse than their bite) who have delusions that they are entitled to confidential/sensitive information - again Garry Hare swiftly dealt with these people. Yes Fleecy got savaged after the 'We're dumping OS4 - and we've had this up our sleeve for a year' revelation - quite rightly so IMHO - but now we know why, he is not beyond rehabilitation on this site or in general.

After all - BBRV have managed to rehabilitate themselves - why shouldn't Amiga Inc staff.

You may say Amiga have the right to ignore 'us' anyway - well, yes they do, but we also have the right to get bored with the current setup and drift away - AROS-EXEC anyone!

Last edited by Colin_Camper on 29-Mar-2006 at 11:46 AM.
Last edited by Colin_Camper on 29-Mar-2006 at 11:45 AM.

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terminator 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 29-Mar-2006 21:41:04
#233 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 19-Nov-2003
Posts: 322
From: Unknown

@Colin_Camper

Quote:
After all - BBRV have managed to rehabilitate themselves - why shouldn't Amiga Inc staff.


That's the difference: bbrv is a slick fast talking salesman. Fleecy is a very focussed tech guy. Like many techies, he does get carried away. He loves the technology and he will answer any question in great depth, because that's the way he is. Tech for tech's sake.

bbrv spins a great yarn, and you just can't wait to buy in. He's one of those salesman who likes to use terms for "pre-owned", rather than "used". It's not about the tech, it's about not stopping till you sign on the dotted line. Like a good salesman.

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Zardoz 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 29-Mar-2006 21:59:17
#234 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@terminator

Fleecy is what? A tech guy? Terminated... Please mate, give us a break...

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Raffaele 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 31-Mar-2006 4:42:03
#235 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy

@Rogue

Quote:
@opi

Quote:


BTW: hope you guys don't mind OS4 (I know, I know it's not up to you, just from technical point of view) on Efika?


Currently busy with the ENIAC port... Maybe after the Turing port...


Hans-Jörg Frieden, Hyperion Entertainment.


I don't know why you both Friedens, instead to play with your second hand ENIAC, don't you pack any of your AmigaONE, loaded with latest stable version of AmigaOS 4.0, and some good programs installed... ...and take first train to New Commodore International in Holland???

Sure they let you keep wating a lot in the hall, but, if you ask for a meeting, they will receive you.

http://www.commodoreworld.com/

Then let's go with the show of what is a new Amiga, and new OS and new programs.

Show their Public relations man, and their "head-hunter" man (and every director you could meet) WHAT A *NEW* AMIGA IS.

Show them the benefits to have a desktop platform of their own, and a multimedia OS aimed at desktop market, embedded market, and set top box market, they can put into their devices.

Amaze them with some gorgeous demos.

Well! Sure it is clear that they have lots of money if them are capable to hire in a brief amount of time an online store offering plenty of USB devices marked with Commodore logo: MP3 players, virgin CD and DVD marked Commodore (SWEEET! I will buy some, to burn Amiga related CDs with C= logo on it!!! ), USB Keys, a multimedia device of 20 gig, a Media Tower, etc.







and MAIN:


The C64 all-in-a-joystick! (C64DTV)

http://hardware.commodoreworld.com/default.aspx?i=3&s=category&c=30



Even Vesalia in Germany sells this product.

http://www.vesalia.de

It is up to you Friedens, who are the best in charge to show these people from Netherlands, that buy ALL INTELLECTUAL PROPERTIES of Amiga from Amiga Inc. and KMOS is a sure bargain, because Amiga will be a great attractive killer apllication/hardware for them.

And more, ask them to pick it all so we all Amigans will have not anymore contacts with Bill Mc Ewen and Fleecy Moss, and we will not bothered anymore with Amiga DE.

Bye, bye Amiga Inc.

Sure the New Commodore International has money, then show them that the new Amiga could attract their venture capital.

And more...

A certain interest into Amiga by New Commodore International Netherlands based is shown by their link into their homepage pointing at one Amiga Club in Holland.

Yes, the links points at an old page of old Amiga Club there... but for the first time it appears in the pages of New Commodore International.

It could be a sign of interest... Or It could mean none... Time will see.

But sure, even if some of us Amigans, consider these persons only jackals who wants the old brand Commodore to sell products of no importance, then they proved to have the guts to create such this firm, and proved they have the capitals to do so.

And sure, they can't be worse than Amiga Inc.

Maybe the new Amiga (shown clearly by you both Friedens) could raise their interest to enter the desktop world, and let them persuade buying Amiga brand to market it with good commercial interest.

Try to do it. It is sure a chance!

Ciao,

Raffaele

Last edited by Raffaele on 31-Mar-2006 at 05:23 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 31-Mar-2006 at 05:20 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 31-Mar-2006 at 05:03 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 31-Mar-2006 at 04:58 AM.

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