@LoneHaranguer

Given that Amiga Inc has shown zero interest in AmigaOS4, do you honestly think they care about what OS Genesi supports?

@CodeSmith

It's funny (I mean strange, not humorous) that Amiga, Inc. has zero positive interest, but seems to be interested when it affects AmigaOS in a negative way. Stepping in at the last minute to kill the AHT Europe set-top box deal is one example.

This is the kind of thing that makes me think, even as near-dead as they are, there's still enough life to smack down anything to do with Genesi.

-- gary_c

Last edited by gary_c on 18-May-2006 at 10:32 AM.

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Related to my last post, it occurs to me that after announcing stuff (& then failing to deliver) Troika/etc have gone silent, which IMHO is worse for the market, as people will start to drift away.

What Troika/etc should have learn from their mistakes is to not announce guesses about the future - rather they should just announce their ACTUAL progress, however fast or slow. Absolutely no-one could reasonably complain about progress updates, and it'd keep the interest going. Stealth mode is killing us.

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@gary_c

Quote:

Stepping in at the last minute to kill the AHT Europe set-top box deal is one example.

An example of absolutely nothing. All you've heard at the most is the claims from AHT, who by the way also claimed to instead support AROS with their set-top box, which never materialized either, AFAIK. Could it be that Amiga Inc. had already realized that their product wasn't going to materialize with the business plan proposed? We don't know, we can only speculate. Leave it at that and refrain from such inflammatory claims, gary.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Quote:

An example of absolutely nothing. All you've heard at the most is the claims from AHT, who by the way also claimed to instead support AROS with their set-top box, which never materialized either, AFAIK.

That goes to show how little, really, you know about the things you talk about.

The Ariana very well materialized on my desk, I ported AROS to it, and it ran quite well on top of it!

Then, AHT decided to switch to another platform, and asked me whether I would port AROS to that as well, but told them that I really didn't have time to port AROS to an entirely different architecture.

So, indeed, AHT supported AROS.

Will you ever learn to shut up when you don't know things?

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@falemagn

Eeehm... When are you going to stop putting meanings into what I say that doesn't exist and then accuse me of talking about things I don't know? What I said was that AHT's plans never materialized. That is by no means claiming that you nor Amiga Inc. would have never had access to some kind of prototype or developer board.

The point of what I said was exactly what you are telling me here, that we shouldn't be making claims about things we don't know. To that you respond that I should learn to not speak of things I don't know? When are you going to learn how to understand what you read?

I'm sorry but your arrogance is starting to become somewhat annoying...

Last edited by samface on 21-May-2006 at 12:33 PM.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Quote:

Eeehm... When are you going to stop putting meanings into what I say that doesn't exist and then accuse me of talking about things I don't know? What I said was that AHT's plans never materialized.

Liar.

You said, and I quote, "their set top box, which never materialized."

The set top box materialized alright!

Quote:

That is by no means claiming that you nor Amiga Inc. would have never had access to some kind of prototype or developer board.

And where exactly I said that you claimed that?


Quote:

The point of what I said was exactly what you are telling me here, that we shouldn't be making claims about things we don't know.

Glad you agree, so when are you starting to follow that advice?


Quote:

To that you respond that I should learn to not speak of things I don't know? When are you going to learn how to understand what you read?

As soon as you learn how to write.

Sammy, how is it that you always mean something different each time you write a reply? You even try to twist your own words, by misquoting yourself and not quoting the message you reply to, as if people weren't able to scroll the page up and read by themselves what you had written originally.

But let's not derail the discussion... the discussion you intervened it was about AHT not being able to make a deal about having AmigaOS4 on their board for AmigaInc stepping in and demanding last minute conditions.

That is a fact, stated by AHT themselves and undisputed by Amiga Inc so far.

What has this got to do, then, with AHT later on changing their plans and coming out with a different product than the one which was the subject of the proposed deal AInc? How in the hell can you make so giant logic leaps?

You said "AHT claimed to instead support AROS", as if it were some sort of lie. AROS did get support from AHT, I got documentation, a board, technical support and aid, all for free. And when they later on switched board, I was offered the same kind of support, it was me who declined. No doubt a company willing to make money would have accepted, instead, and probably, had the deal with AmigaInc come to a happy end, AHT could also have not changed their plans!

Whatever happened more than one year after the proposed deal with AInc, can't possibly change the outlook on AInc's behaviour one year earlier! You now claimed that maybe AInc even kind of smelled that plans would change, so that's why they didn't make the deal happen. How more twisted can your logic become?

Quote:

I'm sorry but your arrogance is starting to become somewhat annoying...

What you call "arrogance" is just the effect of your continued effort of twisting reality just so that you can continue trolling all over Amiga boards.

Last edited by falemagn on 21-May-2006 at 02:40 PM.
Last edited by falemagn on 21-May-2006 at 02:30 PM.
Last edited by falemagn on 21-May-2006 at 02:28 PM.

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@falemagn

Blah, blah... You're arguing semantics now, as so many times before. I've never changed my words or twisted them, it's just you who chooses to interpret them in a way that suits your agenda.

First of all, no, just because you have a developer board does not mean that the actual product materialized. I never talked about any developer boards or anything like that, I was refering to actual end-user products, nothing else. Why in god's name you automtically decide to interpret my words as if I was talking about anything besides an end-user product (you know, the kind that you can actually go out and buy in stores) goes beyond me.

As for your ramblings about their dedication to the AROS project, since the end-user product never materialized, I don't consider it as supporting AROS. I mean, what good does a product do if it never becomes available for sale? Whatever they did prior to the decission of not releasing the end-user product, it's all in vain, now isn't it? In fact, they have cost you the time you have invested in making AROS run on their hardware that never came to good use for anyone besides you and maybe some other possible owners of those developer boards, right? Time that would have been better spent on more useful developments of AROS, right? So, how much did they contribute to your project, really? It seems to me that maybe Amiga Inc. didn't make such a bad decission after all? Who knows, I, for one, am not in a position to judge.

Anyhow, I made it very clear that the main point of my post was just like yours, ie to discourage claims about things we don't know. Yet, with every little word you find in my post that could possibly be interpreted as a claim of things we don't know, you choose that interpretation and refuse to acknowledge other possible meanings even when they are pointed out to you. I find that rather arrogant. Please get that head out of your behind and start reading what I say a bit more objectively.

I have nothing further to say about the matter.

Last edited by samface on 21-May-2006 at 03:06 PM.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Quote:

have nothing further to say about the matter.

Thanks God, no more unsubstantiated opinions claimed as facts! Will this last, though? Something tells me it won't

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@falemagn
Quote:

Liar. You said, and I quote, "their set top box, which never materialized."

Nope. he said:
Quote:

...which never materialized either, AFAIK.

Note the acronym AFAIK which is commonly known as As-Far-As-I-Know which signifies an unconfirmed/uninformed opinion. Hardly a liar.

Now you two kiss and make up before the AW.net moderators have to spank you and send you to bed early. Sheesh.

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ExecSG Team Lead

@samface

Quote:

What I said was that AHT's plans never materialized.

No, Samface, you said " their set-top box, which never materialized either, AFAIK." You may have meant something else, but it's rather silly to deny what was clearly written two posts earlier. But enough about reinterpreting posts. As for your contention that Amiga, Inc. in its wisdom decided not to allow the port to AHT's project because they could foresee it not being successful, of course none of us knows the actual reason. I only know, if I understand what has been posted by those involved, that Hyperion was willing (and I don't think they're known for frivolous adventures as far as business decisions with AOS are concerned) and then Amiga, Inc. stepped in at the last minute and killed the deal. Guess he knew something that Hyperion didn't. In any case, my comment was hardly inflamatory. These events are well known. I'm content enough to wait and watch what hardware deal Amiga, Inc. does consider worthwhile, if your reasoning is correct. Personally, I think we'll all be waiting a long, long time. I hope people have options.

-- gary_c

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@gary_c

Quote:

gary_c wrote: @samface Quote: What I said was that AHT's plans never materialized. No, Samface, you said " their set-top box, which never materialized either, AFAIK."

Oh my... Not you too... For crying out loud, wasn't the set-top box a part of their plans? If so, isn't saying "AHT's plans never materialized" and "their set-top box, which never materialized" the same thing? If not, then I'm awfully and dreadfully sorry, mr Correct. Regardless of the wordings, shouldn't the point I'm trying to make here be clear enough already? Then drop the bloody semantics arguments already. Next thing you are going to say is probably how *I* started the argument about semantics and how everybody laughs at me for making claims about things I don't know. The truth of where I tried to say that people shouldn't make claims about things we don't know is soon forgotten...

Sums up pretty much the entire "samface myth", I'd say...

Quote:

These events are well known.

Ah, the old "this is well known"-argument. Guess what? Obviously not. Can you even back up your claims? Nothing is actually "known" at all until there is something substantial to back it up. Furthermore, even if your theory would be true, you still don't know the circumstances or anyone's reason for doing what they did. Again, it is for that reason I'm suggesting that you refrain from jumping to any conclusions.

Quote:

I'm content enough to wait and watch what hardware deal Amiga, Inc. does consider worthwhile, if your reasoning is correct. Personally, I think we'll all be waiting a long, long time. I hope people have options.

Well, ACK and Troika are obviously of another opinion. In any case, I never was a fan of quick solutions, one step at a time usually gives a better end-result.

Last edited by samface on 21-May-2006 at 04:57 PM.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@falemagn

Quote:

falemagn wrote: @samface Quote: have nothing further to say about the matter. Thanks God, no more unsubstantiated opinions claimed as facts! Will this last, though? Something tells me it won't

1. Please, you can call me Sammy or samface.

2. I'm afraid you are claiming your unsubstantiated opinion as a fact right here in this post of yours. There is always someone, such as yourself, to claim their unsubstantiated opinion as a fact.

3. It didn't last at all, I'm afraid.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Quote:

Oh my... Not you too... For crying out loud, wasn't the set-top box a part of their plans? If so, isn't saying "AHT's plans never materialized" and "their set-top box, which never materialized" the same thing?

Probably what you meant to say was "AHT's plan had never materialized", which would refer to the set-top-box by (implicit) reference.

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Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@pixie

No, I meant that they never did. "Had" would have made it preterite tense, as in that their plans never materialized before that point in time. I meant never as in "their plans for releasing an end-user product never materialized in the form of an end-user product", period. Can I make myself any more clear?

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface
Quote:

Quote: For crying out loud, wasn't the set-top box a part of their plans? (...) Quote: No, I meant that they never did. "Had" would have made it preterite tense, as in that their plans never materialized before that point in time. I meant never as in "their plans for releasing an end-user product never materialized in the form of an end-user product", period. Can I make myself any more clear?

If it's part, it's not the whole

Last edited by pixie on 21-May-2006 at 05:31 PM.

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The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@pixie

Please stop it.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@ssolie

Dang, English should be your main language, yet you haven't understood what "liar" was referred to.

In the 2nd post, he claimed he said something which he didn't say. That was the lie.

Perhaps your adversion for me makes you blind?

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@samface

Quote:

If so, isn't saying "AHT's plans never materialized" and "their set-top box, which never materialized" the same thing?

That depends, and the difference could be significant in this discussion and not just semantics. Even prototypes or early production models not materializing is quite different from full-scale market introduction (i.e., the "plans") not materializing. At the point Amiga, Inc. stopped the port, it was way too early for AHT's plans to materialize as AHT was only arranging for the OS then.

Quote:

If not, then I'm awfully and dreadfully sorry, mr Correct.

Apology accepted.

Quote:

Regardless of the wordings, shouldn't the point I'm trying to make here be clear enough already?

It's clear enough now that we've established the sequence of events and context in which Amiga, Inc. killed the deal, yes.

Quote:

Then drop the bloody semantics arguments already. Next thing you are going to say is probably how *I* started the argument about semantics and how everybody laughs at me for making claims about things I don't know. The truth of where I tried to say that people shouldn't make claims about things we don't know is soon forgotten...

Well, Samface, that is a good rule to go by, so let's agree that none of us on the outside -- and apparently not even the people on the receiving end of the decision -- knows why Amiga, Inc. stepped in to stop the Ariana port, only that they did. Similarly, those of us on the outside can only speculate about why Amiga, Inc. has not responded positively (or even responded at all) to any contact regarding an AmigaOS hardware project (that is publically known).

Quote:

Ah, the old "this is well known"-argument. Guess what? Obviously not. Can you even back up your claims? Nothing is actually "known" at all until there is something substantial to back it up. Furthermore, even if your theory would be true, you still don't know the circumstances or anyone's reason for doing what they did. Again, it is for that reason I'm suggesting that you refrain from jumping to any conclusions.

My claim that what? Amiga, Inc. (in the person of Bill McEwen, IIRC) stepped in at a late stage of the negotiations between Hyperion and AHT and prevented an agreement? What do I need to do to back that up? Senex, one of the AHT staff, posted here at Amigaworld.net (and other places like Amiga-news.de) to state that. I believe one of the Hyperion guys also said about the same thing. I don't have time to find the thread just now, but I imagine a search would turn it up pretty quickly. I didn't jump to any conclusions; I just read what the people wrote; there was no need to interpret.

Quote:

Quote: Personally, I think we'll all be waiting a long, long time. I hope people have options. Well, ACK and Troika are obviously of another opinion. In any case, I never was a fan of quick solutions, one step at a time usually gives a better end-result.

Sure, people can have any opinions they want. In the case of Troika, they have conspicuously avoided answering direct questions about Amiga, Inc. OKing their use of AOS4, which doesn't exactly inspire confidense. The ACK guy did say the license was no problem so I assume that's one thing out of the way for him, which is good. As for slow solutions giving better results, depending on the resources involved sometimes things taking a long time just gives you something that isn't so good and took a long time. Anyway, time (lots of it) will tell.

-- gary_c

Last edited by gary_c on 22-May-2006 at 01:27 AM.

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@falemagn
Quote:

Perhaps your adversion for me makes you blind?

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ExecSG Team Lead