@samface

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samface wrote: @Bodie_CI5 Unlike: Quote: If you've got some dignity, have the courage to come out and say "I'm sorry, I'm just trolling". Or else, keep being the quadruple-faced, boldly childish, uselessy confrontational and poor argumenter person that you've appeared to be so far. ? Not to play some childish "he started it" game, I just found it a bit odd as the first thing to react to in this thread.

a) I'll reply where I want and when I want. (not that I particularly give a sh|t anymore, but anyway)

b) I specifically referred to your 100 times over comment (hence the bold)

c) I have no more motivation to mod anymore, so there is no need to think that that was a mod comment (just in case you thouht that was the case)

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@Bodie_CI5

Chill out. I didn't mean to imply anything besides that I felt that it was rather odd to only react to that when considering what has been posted prior to it. I mean, even if a "tone" may seem provocative, what is that in comparison to a direct insult?

Of course you're free to comment as you please and yes, you may leave it unmotivated if you want too.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

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samface wrote: @Bodie_CI5 Chill out.

It is cold in Melb.

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I didn't mean to imply anything besides that I felt that it was rather odd to only react to that when considering what has been posted prior to it. I mean, even if a "tone" may seem provocative, what is that in comparison to a direct insult?

Dunno, wasn't on the receiving end. I only commented on what I saw.

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Of course you're free to comment as you please and yes, you may leave it unmotivated if you want too.

Cheers man, on second thought, my post did seem somewhat defensive, sorry about that.

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@samface
here is one to do it for you:

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@samface

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Quote: I was less than thrilled by the AHT affair, of course. ? How does that imply that Hyperion would have a different view than Amiga Inc.? I'm sure Amiga Inc. isn't thrilled about the AHT affair too.

What EntilZha appears to have meant is that he was not thrilled with the way it was brought to a halt. This I infer from the fact that the deal was nearly done when Amiga, Inc. stepped in. This would seem to be very different from the attitude of Amiga, Inc., which was the party responsible for bringing negotiations to a halt.

-- gary_c

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@Yo

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/me Googles 'reunification'....

Maybe the inverse of Samface + gary_c.

Sorry for getting caught up in another one of these downward spirals. Anyway, whatever way Samface wants to interpret events is up to him. In the end, if there is some kind of Amiga reunification, it'll be up to the people who want it to happen. Those who don't can go their own way.

-- gary_c

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@gary_c

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What EntilZha appears to have meant is that he was not thrilled with the way it was brought to a halt.

As you said, that's how it appears to you. Furthermore, that still doesn't neccessarily mean that Amiga Inc. was thrilled about it.

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This I infer from the fact that the deal was nearly done when Amiga, Inc. stepped in.

Well, from a perfectly objective standpoint, it remains impossible for me to confirm this claim of yours as a fact for as long as you don't provide me with something to back it up.

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This would seem to be very different from the attitude of Amiga, Inc., which was the party responsible for bringing negotiations to a halt.

How can you possibly conclude that Amiga Inc. was responsible? It seems to me that you're just reflecting whose claims you've decide to believe in here. As Fabio and I actually managed to agree on, people shouldn't state their unsubstantiated opinions as facts.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@gary_c

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In the end, if there is some kind of Amiga reunification, it'll be up to the people who want it to happen. Those who don't can go their own way.

That is exactly what I said back when the MorphOS Team and bPlan decided that they didn't need "the name". Ironic, isn't it?

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@IonMane

Thank you, that was a great relief for my head.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

From what Hyperion has been saying, it was Amiga Inc had stepped in...
Plus since EntilZha POV is that 'he not thrilled with the way it was brought to a halt', side stepping your non relevant 'unthrilled' remark, it at least shows that Hyperion isn't walking the Amiga walk, rather 'dragged' on by...

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Well, from a perfectly objective standpoint, it remains impossible for me to confirm this claim of yours as a fact for as long as you don't provide me with something to back it up.

But from a 'perfectly objective standpoint' you can infer:
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Furthermore, that still doesn't neccessarily mean that Amiga Inc. was thrilled about it.

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How can you possibly conclude that Amiga Inc. was responsible? It seems to me that you're just reflecting whose claims you've decide to believe in here. As Fabio and I actually managed to agree on, people shouldn't state their unsubstantiated opinions as facts.

If Enthilza wasn't jumping with joy, then you might conclude that it was either
a) Amiga Inc,
b) Eyetech

who stepped in... if not, Enthilza would had expressed differently.

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Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@samface

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That is exactly what I said back when the MorphOS Team and bPlan decided that they didn't need "the name". Ironic, isn't it?

Samface, you've seen the light... indeed is that simple!
Maybe they hadn't decided that they didn't need the name, rather that they had a product...

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Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@samface

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How can you possibly conclude that Amiga Inc. was responsible? It seems to me that you're just reflecting whose claims you've decide to believe in here.

Are you saying AHT's people are liars?

If not, then you're bound to believe them.

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@pixie

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pixie wrote: @samface From what Hyperion has been saying, it was Amiga Inc had stepped in...

That is no response to my request for something to back that claim up.

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Plus since EntilZha POV is that 'he not thrilled with the way it was brought to a halt', side stepping your non relevant 'unthrilled' remark, it at least shows that Hyperion isn't walking the Amiga walk, rather 'dragged' on by...

No, that logic is flawed. If Amiga Inc. feels just as 'unthrilled', they are obviously walking/dragged down the same path. A statement by EntilZha (which BTW wasn't speaking on the behalf of Hyperion) saying that they were not thrilled by the situation does in no way imply that Amiga Inc. was thrilled about it nor that they would have different views at all.

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But from a 'perfectly objective standpoint' you can infer: Quote: Furthermore, that still doesn't neccessarily mean that Amiga Inc. was thrilled about it.

Yes, to be objective is to be able to see things from more than one perspective.

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Quote: How can you possibly conclude that Amiga Inc. was responsible? It seems to me that you're just reflecting whose claims you've decide to believe in here. As Fabio and I actually managed to agree on, people shouldn't state their unsubstantiated opinions as facts.

Yes, from a perfectly objective standpoint, the lack of anything substantial *proves* what we don't know.

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If Enthilza wasn't jumping with joy, then you might conclude that it was either a) Amiga Inc, b) Eyetech

With what kind of logic do you conclude that someone had to be thrilled about the situation at all? It's perfectly possible that *noone* was thrilled about it.

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who stepped in... if not, Enthilza would had expressed differently.

He didn't express anything besides his miscontent about the affair. You're making way too much out of it. In fact, his miscontent about the affair doesn't even exclude the possibility of Hyperion being the ones who stepped in. Please note that this is not something I claim to be the truth, it's a perfectly hypothetical example, that's all.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@falemagn

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falemagn wrote: @samface Quote: How can you possibly conclude that Amiga Inc. was responsible? It seems to me that you're just reflecting whose claims you've decide to believe in here. Are you saying AHT's people are liars? If not, then you're bound to believe them.

No, I don't have to believe them nor make the conclusion that they are liars. That is Fabio-logic which doesn't comply very well with real world issues. Get this amazing and new revolutionary concept; it is possible to refrain from making conclusions until it has been confirmed as a matter of fact. Try it some time, it's refreshingly intelligent.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

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Well, from a perfectly objective standpoint, it remains impossible for me to confirm this claim of yours as a fact for as long as you don't provide me with something to back it up.

Like I said, do a search. It wouldn't be hard to find. It generated plenty of conversation at the time, and I'm surprised (well, not really) that you don't seem to be aware of it. If I have time, I might get to it, but I'd rather not dwell on that old stuff. An opportunity came and went. Case closed.

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How can you possibly conclude that Amiga Inc. was responsible? It seems to me that you're just reflecting whose claims you've decide to believe in here. As Fabio and I actually managed to agree on, people shouldn't state their unsubstantiated opinions as facts.

Amiga, Inc. staff haven't said anything about that situation, as far as I know. The other two parties have, and they both point to Amiga, Inc. as the reason things stalled. That's all I can say, Anyway, I shouldn't have to remind you that I'm not putting anything forward as "facts." Everything I've written is my opinion -- founded, I hope, on information from those who were involved and know a lot more about it than I do. It's tiresome to have to remind you of this again.

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Quote: Quote: In the end, if there is some kind of Amiga reunification, it'll be up to the people who want it to happen. Those who don't can go their own way. That is exactly what I said back when the MorphOS Team and bPlan decided that they didn't need "the name". Ironic, isn't it?

Ironic indeed, given that "the name" platform has no hardware and thus no future, while Genesi is trying to sell hardware and something (irrational?) is preventing the two from working together.

-- gary_c

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@samface

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No, I don't have to believe them nor make the conclusion that they are liars. That is Fabio-logic which doesn't comply very well with real world issues. Get this amazing and new revolutionary concept; it is possible to refrain from making conclusions until it has been confirmed as a matter of fact. Try it some time, it's refreshingly intelligent.

And then you wonder why would Bodie say that you've got a condescending tone, or even wonder why I call you with the names that suit you much better than any "samface" would.

Anyway, let's see... can you come up with a way to state "as a matter of facts" that AHT is either lying ot saying the truth?

If you can't, can you at least come up with a good reason not to believe them?

Let's make an example... If I tell you "hey, sammyboy, the sky is falling, run!" what are you gouing to do, believe me, not believe me, or just ignore me as if I had never said anything (which is what you're doing right now with AHT)?

Ok, this was a simple one... it's easy to check whether the sky is falling, just look up in the air. So that might be the equivalent of your "confirmed as a matter of fact."

Now, let's make things a bit more complicated... Say you don't feel well, like something is wrong with your health... then you go to a doctor, right? The doctor tests you, and concludes that you've got a pretty bad illness which, if not operated, might lead to your death. You have no way to test by yourself whether he's right, you're not a doctor, and all other doctors refuse to talk to you! So you've got to choose one of the following 3 options:

Last edited by falemagn on 22-May-2006 at 02:01 PM.
Last edited by falemagn on 22-May-2006 at 01:59 PM.
Last edited by falemagn on 22-May-2006 at 01:45 PM.

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@gary_c

I see nothing wrong with the fact that Amiga Inc. wants hardware named Amiga to run an operating system called Amiga OS4 and would like to make a buck on that. That's what companies do.

I also see nothing wrong with the Fact that Genesi does not want to pay porting costs nor does it want to name it's hardware "Amiga" or some derivitive thereof and hence pay for licensing the "name"

If there is anything "(irrational)" here it is that Genesi refuse to accept the terms Amiga Inc. have for it's licensed OS(AOS4) and that it wants it on licensed hardware.

Of course there also seems to be bad blood between the two so further "(irational)" emotions may be in play also, but if genesi really want to heal the breech as it were, simply making a few ambiguous posts here on AmigaWorld and posting word to the effect of: we have the hardware and want to supply it, really does not do much to that end does it.

If the relationship between Genesi and Amiga Inc. is ever going to be healed, it is my belief that one of them will have to be the "bigger man", step up to the plate and actually apologize to the other. Thats how it is done between people, and business is run by people.

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@IonMane

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the fact that Amiga Inc. wants hardware named Amiga to run an operating system called Amiga OS4 and would like to make a buck on that.

They do? Cool! So they must have changed their business objectives.

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@gary_c

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gary_c wrote: @samface Quote: Well, from a perfectly objective standpoint, it remains impossible for me to confirm this claim of yours as a fact for as long as you don't provide me with something to back it up. Like I said, do a search. It wouldn't be hard to find. It generated plenty of conversation at the time, and I'm surprised (well, not really) that you don't seem to be aware of it. If I have time, I might get to it, but I'd rather not dwell on that old stuff. An opportunity came and went. Case closed.

For you maybe, but that's not going to cut it for me. And no, I have no interest in digging for proof of your claims. Since it is your claim, the burden of proof is yours.

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Quote: How can you possibly conclude that Amiga Inc. was responsible? It seems to me that you're just reflecting whose claims you've decide to believe in here. As Fabio and I actually managed to agree on, people shouldn't state their unsubstantiated opinions as facts. Amiga, Inc. staff haven't said anything about that situation, as far as I know. The other two parties have, and they both point to Amiga, Inc. as the reason things stalled.

I thought we already concluded that wether Hyperion thinks of it as Amiga Inc.'s "fault" is a matter of interpretation rather than a fact? EnthilZa's expression of miscontent about the affair does by no means imply that it would be Amiga Inc.'s fault nor that Amiga Inc. would be more thrilled about the matter than Hyperion. EnthilZa wasn't even speaking on the behalf of Hyperion, mind you.

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That's all I can say, Anyway, I shouldn't have to remind you that I'm not putting anything forward as "facts." Everything I've written is my opinion -- founded, I hope, on information from those who were involved and know a lot more about it than I do. It's tiresome to have to remind you of this again.

Try using e-prime sometime, it would probably help alot.

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Ironic indeed, given that "the name" platform has no hardware and thus no future, while Genesi is trying to sell hardware and something (irrational?) is preventing the two from working together.

It is correct that there currently is no hardware available for AmigaOS4 besides a few A1's that are still around, but your logic that what you are refering to here as "the name" platform would therefore have no future is flawed and Hyperion, Troika, ACK, etc. obviously doesn't agree with you. There is a business strategy in the works, let's see how it unfolds before we start jumping to such conclusions.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@falemagn

You're a lost cause, Fabio. You're still not understanding anything from what I've said. I'm sorry but there simply is nothing more I can do for you.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)