@syner

Delete honest to goodness spam ?

What on earth for ?

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I dont suffer from Insanity - I enjoy it

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@Amon_Re

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Amon_Re wrote: What i said was factual, they are bound by their contract, a contract none of us has seen (unless it leaked?), and whatever their backup plan is, it will be within the scope of said contract.

Which never was the issue here. What we are talking about is if Hyperion are limited by this contract to the degree that they need Genesi's "help" or not.

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There are only two other things they can do, get the contract declared void & null (unlikely) or get Ainc arround the table to renegotiate said contract.[(quote] That is assuming that the contract would be a limiting factor, something we wouldn't know since neither of us knows the actual terms of the contract nor what Hyperion is planning. Quote: [quote]No, I disagree. It's definitly not that simple. Ever heard of the expression "out of the ashes, into the fire"? I think you mean, out of the frying pan & into the fire.

Well, that's how the saying goes in Sweden atleast but I guess that works too.

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What it all comes down to however, is business, not politics, Hyperion writes software for a specific architecture, they need said architecture to be available & on sale.

Of course, I agree completely.

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There are a number of possibilities here: - Get Eyetech to do another run of A1's - Go for old Apple hardware - Go for the Peg-II / Effica - Wait for Troika - Wait for ACK

Now here is where your thinking goes wrong. I repeat, we don't know Hyperions plans and we don't know what companies they are currently cooperating with. There can be thousands of hardware manufacturers lined up at their doors from what we know.

As I said before, we are not in a position to judge wether Hyperion would need Genesi's help or not. That's for Hyperion to know and for us to speculate about. If Hyperion would be in such desperate need of Genesi's intervention, I'm sure they would contact them on their own initiative. For some reason, I doubt Hyperion would have any involvment with this "Amiga Reunification" initiative or the legal proceedings that Genesi claims to have initiated against Amiga Inc.

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Out of those, i'd only consider Genesi at this point in time.

I wouldn't trust Genesi even if they would be offering me a hand while I'm hanging off a cliff.

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Offcourse, this is all moot since Ainc has the final call it seems

Appearantly, Hyperion isn't *completely* unable to make some kind of arrangements since they are openly encouraging hardware manufacturers to contact them directly on the official AmigaOS4 website, even hardware manufacturers that targets a different CPU architecture than the PPC.

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Quote: Yeah, and be sure to *at all times* have a fund ready for legal representation. You wouldn't want to let them catch you off guard and unable to legally defend yourself... Such is life

Such track record is unacceptable for any potential business partner, IMO.

Last edited by samface on 15-May-2006 at 03:31 PM.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

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@samface

Sam, the problem is, there's just not alot of PPC hardware out there that's suitable for OS4 other then embedded.

I'm sure some people would wet themselves at the idea of a pda or something like that running OS4, but let's get some desktops out there first shall we?

The reason why i wouldn't mind seeing OS4 on Genesi hardware is purely for practical reasons, the Pegasos-II is "out there", it can be bought relatively easy, and their after sales support seems to be decent, if not great.

Offcourse i'd also be cautious with dealing with BBRV, but i would deal with him, a solid contract can be a life saver when dealing with a shark.

As for other posibilities.... Honestly, i don't see many alternatives anymore when it comes to PPC hardware

Last edited by Amon_Re on 15-May-2006 at 03:46 PM.

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Amon's digital home

@wegster

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Quote: The_Editor wrote: @syner How many A1200's you have ? Err, 8, of course?

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You can crack anything with your head, even the head itself.
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...proud AOS user since 1993
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@Thread

For all of you fighting you need to just stop. I know I have said a few things in here back in the past that deserved flames, but for the most part I have been quite tame. I only decided to come back because of all the hard work BBRV is attempting to do, and help bring us all back together again. Its needed now more then ever.

Look all things aside OS4 needs good hardware produced by someone that can get good prices and high volumes. bPlan and Genesi can do that with the EFIKA. It is out and available now and has been shown. Who cares how you feel about them. So maybe they did some things to piss some of you off. I cant speak for that matter, but I can speak about OS4 needing hardware to run on if you expect it to get any place at all. The small number of Amiga One systems out now were made by people that cant or dont want to support them any longer. When they break you all know how hard it is to get a working replacement. I have read the threads here off on the side about that sort of stuff. You know its true. What are you going to do when you cant get any more replacement boards or parts?

You can get an EFIKA now for much less then a CPU card alone for the A1. I say you all welcome them with open arm and get some support for the project. Amiga Inc and Hyperion (even more so Hyperion) would be just nuts to ignore a manufacturer that will to let them use a board like the EFIKA. You dont have to like the person that is behind it, but a computer system is a lot more then two people. It takes a lot more to get it out the door.

One last thing. I am sure you all hate a lot of the people that were the former Commodore management, but I dont see that stopping a huge number of classic users from using what they have.

Last edited by Acill_MOS on 15-May-2006 at 05:32 PM.

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@Acill_MOS

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For all of you fighting you need to just stop.

That would be nice.

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Look all things aside OS4 need good hardware produced by someone that can get good prices and high volumes. bPlan and Genesi can do that with the EFIKA. It is out and available now and has been shown. Who cares how you feel about them. So maybe they did some things to piss some of you off.

Its Bill Buck i dont trust, the HW is irrelevant in that conncetion for me, i think Efika looks like a nice embedded mb, but i have no trust in Bill Buck and i dontwant him to get in control of OS 4.

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You can get an EFIKA now for much less then a CPU card alone for the A1.

Even if the license from Amiga Inc. wouldnt be needed Hyperion still wants 20.000¤ for the work on the port, and it will take about a month, seen 3 to 6 weeks mentioned depending on how much work put into it, so its not an instant solution to the HW problem.

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One last thing. I am sure you all hate a lot of the people that were the former Commodore management, but I dont see that stopping a huge number of classic users from using what they have.

I see no point in this hating.

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@SlayeR__

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Its Bill Buck i dont trust, the HW is irrelevant in that conncetion for me, i think Efika looks like a nice embedded mb, but i have no trust in Bill Buck and i dontwant him to get in control of OS 4.

Who is talking about controlling OS4 here? It seems to me that Hyperion is in controll of it. I am just wanting to see hardware for it so they have something to release it with. As it is now who the heck can buy OS4 if it ever gets released as a final product? All the current A1 owners have paid for it with the A1 they got. That leaves a very small number of classic owners that wont do much for bringing in much needed cash to be able to continue development of OS4.

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@SlayeR__

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i dontwant him to get in control of OS 4.

Well control of OS4 ain't the problem!

It's control of the licensing of hardware Hyperion are permitted to sell OS4 with.

Also while we are talking about trustworthy;

While there have been pages and pages of threads discussing the court case, cessation of payments to developers/webmaster - bbrv have never to my knowledge ripped off their customers. In fact, as someone else pointed out, they have always offered good, if not great, after sales support.

Amiga Inc. on the other hand misled customers right from the first day 2000 with the Yeehaw! email and carried on cynically farming the Amiga community for hand outs all the way through - x86 Dev Kits - Zico - Matrox video cards - Windows SDK - Linux SDK - Zaurus - CAM - Vouchers - Coupons etc etc.

I was succered for all the above save the x86 dev box (Even I saw the lack of emperors clothes there) and of course Zico was Merlancia/Eyetech vapour.

@Acill_MOS

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Who is talking about controlling OS4 here?

BBRV is talking about liberating OS 4 from Amiga Inc., and if he gets it his way he will be able to controll/sublicense OS 4 to any he wish.

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@SlayeR__

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BBRV is talking about liberating OS 4 from Amiga Inc., and if he gets it his way he will be able to controll/sublicense OS 4 to any he wish.

Oh no, hopefuly that never happens, because that could mean that OS4 might actually be sold for existing hardware (think EFIKA, Peg2, PPC-Mac, Classic PPC) instead of being locked away with no new licensed hardware!

@hatschi

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Oh no, hopefuly that never happens, because that could mean that OS4 might actually be sold for existing hardware (think EFIKA, Peg2, PPC-Mac, Classic PPC) instead of being locked away with no new licensed hardware!

Efika Peg2 and Peg3 will only happen if he gets a license somehow, and it would still need time to be done and the porting fee to be payed, dont expect OS 4 on PPC macs anytime, Classic PPC is planned to be released after OS 4 final is released on new HW, HW that hyperion believes is on the way, wish i knew more about what projects there are and how far they are from releasing HW.

But i dont see BBRV as a savior of OS 4.

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@SlayeR__

We were talking about a scenario where BBRV had "liberated" OS4 from Amiga Inc.

With the other stuff (license needed) you aren't telling me anything new.

@hatschi

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We were talking about a scenario where BBRV had "liberated" OS4 from Amiga Inc.

You think that will solve all our problems with new HW ?.

What if hyperion wont do a port or Genesi wont pay for a port, then we havent moved an inch anyway, despite Efika Peg 2 or Peg 3.

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@SlayeR__

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But i dont see BBRV as a savior of OS 4.

Well (aside from Hyperion of course) who do you see as the saviour of OS4?
I estimated in another thread that we are a year away from ACK or Amy if they ever materialise - and neither contradicted me.

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You think that will solve all our problems with new HW ?.

LOL

That's like saying to a man with Acne dying of thirst that a glass of water won't cure his acne.

Back to this Amiga Reunification Project. Regardless of what you think of the reunification project itself, Gunnar's game construction kit looks promising. I played his 194x test game and was impressed. At the bare minimum, this project should get us all some nice new shoot-em-up style games to keep us busy.

Hans

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@SlayeR__

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You think that will solve all our problems with new HW ?

No, it won't solve "all our problems". Most imporantly, it won't solve the problem that hardware will be slow and expensive compared to anything in the x86-world - but that's another discussion.

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What if hyperion wont do a port or Genesi wont pay for a port, then we havent moved an inch anyway, despite Efika Peg 2 or Peg 3.

*shrug* At least there would be a chance that things might change for the better.
Genesi have at least some kind of idea how to run a business. OTOH, I don't see what business Amiga Inc. is exactly aiming at when refusing licensing, staying silent and not answering emails.

@Colin_Camper

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Well (aside from Hyperion of course) who do you see as the saviour of OS4?

I am not waiting for a savior.

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I estimated in another thread that we are a year away from ACK or Amy if they ever materialise - and neither contradicted me.

Nor did they confirm it, why do you believe it will take a year, or where you just trying to get an estimate from them ?.

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@samface & @ all

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Oh my... Some people really need to understand that anyone could probably sign up as a reseller of some cheap standard components motherboard and then lean back and wait for Hyperion to make AmigaOS4 run on it.

some boards were sold to users in a round about way like this before. History repeats!

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Newsflash: Making AmigaOS4 run on your hardware requires collaboration with Hyperion/Amiga Inc. Simply expecting it to happen by itself because you think that it would be in their own interest obviously isn't going to work.

and none of these games are going to build a "good working relationship" between the parties.

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BBRV knows this very well, yet all they do is "blogging" and posting about it in online forums instead of doing any form of serious attempt to actually make it happen. Well, they did suggest in a certain post of the AW.net forums that they are about to take legal action against Amiga Inc. to somehow overcome the obsticle with the licensing scheme. Not that I can see how that could possibly work out considering their previous attempts of this ( see http://www.mindrelease.net/amiga-thendic/ ), but even if they would succeed, how do they expect to be able to cooperate with Hyperion to do the actual porting of the OS to their hardware? I mean, I find it hard to believe that Hyperion would be very thrilled with the idea of working for Genesi. With or without Amiga Inc.'s control of the Amiga IP, Hyperion's work would still be Hyperion's work, controlled by Hyperion.

you see things as they are samface. Further, and no one yet has brought this up yet. But, any lawsuit will have negative results, not positive! If your Hyperion, resources (time, funds) that would go into SW product is going to be refocused into legal. Same goes for any of those working on HW for 0s4. Its risk enough developing HW for platform. Ok, would you further Risk funds (thousands of dollars) for production of that HW when a lawsuit is in progress, and your company can get burned by the outcome?

Im not saying this is going to happen, but the Risk is developing. The very thing users wish Os4 working on new hardware, could be pushed back by poor judgements, and these ego games!

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@hatschi

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*shrug* At least there would be a chance that things might change for the better.

Or worse , i am putting my faith in what hyperion is waiting for.

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Genesi have at least some kind of idea how to run a business. OTOH,

And thats not a reason that OS 4 would be better in their hands IMHO, i am not disputing that they can run a business either.

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I don't see what business Amiga Inc. is exactly aiming at when refusing licensing, staying silent and not answering emails.

Amiga INC.´s aim is AA, the only i have heard that have been refused a license is Genesi and AHT, no wonder Genesi didnt get it, dont know why AHT didnt get it.

They do answer emails it just looks like that it takes some time and not all get answered.

And about staying silent, what is it you expect them to say, they gave the job with next generations amigas to Eyetech and Hyperion, their job was AmigaAnywhere/AmigaDE which they still work with.

I am more looking for some communication from Eyetech, that they havent completely given up on us.

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@hatschi

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We were talking about a scenario where BBRV had "liberated" OS4 from Amiga Inc.

nope Hatschi, not "liberated", more like put under BBRV's thumb of control to line their pockets with $$. A big difference, a very big difference.

this is all about $$$ and ego, nothing about liberation as some would believe.

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"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker