@Helgis

Quote:

If you only could do the same excellent job with an x86-port of AmigaOS4, it would be even better...

Ic!!!!

You change your mind, again?

And what topic you will write tomorrow?
maybe

SHOULD AmigaOS Be Ported To 6510?

_________________
retired

@Stephen_Robinson

x86 is not necessarily i386 anymore. We have gone far beyond that, remember.
It would be excellent to run AmigaOS4 on AMD Athlon 64 PCs with powerful, cheap hardware...

@Rogue and Enthiza

Now the topic has reached page 16

@Insanity

The problem here is one: *ARE* we EVER gonna get a stable supply of hardware? The currently announced hardware "solutions" do not show me anything like that. A weird, non-RoHS compliant Ts109 board with a bizarre layout, a low-end design we haven't seen yet, despite it having been announced bloody ages ago and missing all presentations and deadlines, and another high-end board using $700 CPU cards. WHERE is the potential in ANY of these?

_________________

@Rogue

Quote:

Apple went for Intel because they get better prices for their iPod CPU's then

Do you have proves that this is actually the case, rather than just making your own statement on this? Sorry if you feel attacked. We only try to be realistic...

@AmigaBlitter

I never actually changed my mind. I love PPC, but i find it hard to believe it will ever get cheap and easy to get like x86, and i have thought long about AmigaOS4 on x86, and i really feel now it's time...

Now, my view on this won't be changed. This is my clear view, and i choose to be realistic. I'm tired of dreams that will never happen...

@Helgis

Quote:

@Rogue and Enthiza Now the topic has reached page 16

No need for the repeated taunting. Even if they would agree (what they don't), they can't do anything about it due to the OS4-contract they signed.
The only hope is to wait for a miracle after OS 4.0 final is released.

_________________
This signature is in the middle of a much needed facelift!

@polka.

You are right. No need to spam. That was also the failure i did and it was the reason why i was banned for 80 days, including insulting Coder with anger. I was very sorry for that, but that's another story...

Again, i have tried to contact Amiga Inc through that technologylicensing@amiga.com address and i have made it clear why a port of AmigaOS4 to x86 will be necessary and i have explained that the situation has to be taken very seriously. I also mentioned that the plan about merging AmigaDE and AmigaOS never happened, but i also explained that AmigaOS4 for PPC is almost complete and will be in a stage where a port to x86 will be possible. Amiga Inc knows that they own the rights to AmigaOS4, and it's only for them to decide to licensing a port of AmigaOS4 to x86 to other software companies who want to do the job and who know how to port AmigaOS4 to x86. It remains to be seen what the answers will be. I said we want it to happen now, not sometime in a future that would most likely only be false promises...

I am certainly totally fine with waiting a bit more, as long as i know something is happening. If i knew hyperion would be working on a x86 port after they feel the ppc version has reached a stable release, then i could easily wait a few years if that is what it takes.

I would also be fine with it, if i knew for sure that some reasonable priced hardware was around the corner.

@Helgis

Ok, this topic is now off the front page. To be honest, I'm suprised it has gone on as long as it has, and really ought to have been nuked the moment it was created, simply because we have more than enough debates on this topic already in the fora.

_________________
Test sig (new)

@Tomas

True, that's true. That's the realistic view we need to have...

@Wegster

Has this topic been moved off the frontpage? Don't you think it's more important to stay among the most viewed topics? This is an extremely important topic, you know..

@_Steve_

I understand what some might feel about this, but still this is extremely important and the huge feedback on this topic, as well as many other similar topics, prove that most of us want AmigaOS4 to be ported to x86...

I still think this topic should be along with the most viewed topics. In the frontpage, as it is more easy to see the topic, until and if people stop typing to this topic of course...It however seems that this topic continues to grow very strongly...

@Helgis
Quote:

Do you realize what this means?

it means you started a discussion based on misinformation, assumptions and lack of insight. and that you keep throwing more uninformed comments into the discussion constantly.

Quote:

And it's even more funny that you choose not to comment more on this

do you have any clue how much work it is to correct the bunches of factual errors you continually make? its a fulltime job only sorting the worst gibberish out.

im sure they have better things to do.

Quote:

I'm just being realistic

no, you are being thickheaded and misinformed.

Quote:

this proves that most of us here in AW actually want to see AmigaOS4 on x86 hardware

hardly. anyway, as is obviously the case with you, most end-user dont even know what they want. and they especially dont know the consekvenses of their mindless requests.

Quote:

Do you have proves that this is actually the case, rather than just making your own statement on this?

apple went to intel because they didnt want to be threated just like any other customer at ibm. they wanted special deals, deliveries, and most important, they didnt want to pay for having chips customized to their needs - from a buiness point of view, going to intel made great sense.

ibm on the other hand doesnt have to care. they are shipping vastly more, and way more advanced power(pc) cpu's than ever before.

Quote:

everbody can more or less say that Amiga needs x86 in order to really be on the pair with Windows and MacOS X that now runs on Intel...

thats just utter nonsense. the cpu itself doesnt make or break anything.

Quote:

It's easy to see that PPC doesn't do well in the desktop market anymore

by all means, please point out why its easy to see. powerpc has all the requirements to make a fantastic desktop. ibm has the technology and knowledge to do it. do you even realise that the reason amd does good desktop cpus now, is because they licened ibm technology?

Quote:

be ported to x86, and there would be even more fun and a lot of x86 games and software could be ported easier and faster

nonesen. where would all this extra software come from? santa claus? porting sure wouldnt be easier.

Quote:

Amiga needs x86, and we all know that.

despite all your spam posts, you have still to give a single argument as to why this is.

each and every of your posts in this thread is a fight amongst themselves as to which one contains the most nonsense and uninformed babble. please, do us a favor and get a damn clue before you continue your spamming - just take a look at this post, all these lines just to correct a few of the worst errors in 3 of your posts. i sure can understand why hyperion doesnt want to waste time on this topic.

/stone

@stone

Because he's climbing up the top members post table.

@stone

And i assume you know all this so much better than any of us? I don't think i'm misunderstood about the topic. Most have very similar views like i do...

This isn't just a loosy topic....

Like i said earlier. If it can be proven that PPC CAN be cheap and easy to get like x86 again, and still be better in technology, then i shall go down on my knees and appologize about how wrong i might have been. If this fails to be proven, then i think someone elses should appologize to me....

@stone

Again, i would like to hope you're right. I will believe it when i actually see it...
I just can't base my life on these hopeful dreams, even how much i love the PPC concept, but PPC has never been cheap and easy to get like x86. I DO believe that PPC always has provided better in technology than x86, simply because of what you have stated, and with one of the reasons that IBM has invested a whole lot of money into the project. Now it's Cell and P.A Semi is coming up with a 16-core PPC-chip in 2007. It would also mean that PPC-hardware have to get as cheap as x86, then it will also be easy to get as x86 and it would be extremely competitive...

I'm just trying to be realistic, as said too many times. That's why we have these different views and arguments going on here...

Last edited by Helgis on 09-Jun-2006 at 03:24 PM.

@stone

Quote:

despite all your spam posts, you have still to give a single argument as to why this is.

For each argument there's an equally good counter-argument, that's a never ending story...

The thing is, the actual technology in which Amiga OS rellies on is frozen in time, while in the future the PPC might bring a better price/ratio this price ratio exists today in x86 shape and form.. if OS 4 cannot be ported over X86, well create a synergy between AmigaOS 4 and AROS, so more Amiga Software can be extended.

BTW, how steppy is programming for CELL against x86?

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@vortexau

Quote:

I think that it can be safely said that it began far longer than "five years ago"- Quote: The project to bring the Mac OS to the Intel 486 began on Valentine's Day in 1992 and was named "Star Trek". The project was blessed by Intel's CEO Andy Grove, who feared Microsoft's power in the PC market. The task was a tedious one. Much of the software was written in assembly code to make the computer faster and use less disk space. All of this code had to be totally rewritten for the 486. Other parts of the operating system were easier The group missed their deadline by a month and had a functional demo ready by December 1, 1992. Apple executives were amazed to see the Finder run on an ordinary PC.

I had been going by what Apple had announced when they unveiled their plans to move to Intel a few months ago. However, many thanks for this info. I hadn't heard this interesting peice of information.

Could it be when they were talking about 5 years that they were possibly referring to x86 porting of the PPC versions of the OS and not the classic 68k versions, which that 1992 project must have been? Was OSX based on NeXT? If so, then I guess that since NeXT was ported to x86 at some late stage in its life, that it was probably used for creating OSX, allowing the PPC and x86 versions to have progressed alongside one another? Again, I could be confused on this seeing as haven't followed OSX's history very closely nor am I a diehard Mac fan.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@polka.

Quote:

The only thing what is left from the original Amiga is the OS. Amiga was never PPC in the first place, it used a CPU which was very common (Atari ST, Apple 68k Macs) so how can people insist on PPC as the holy grail that "makes an Amiga"?

Very good point. When Amiga was relased, it used what was probably the most common CPU for any brand of micros at the time: the 68k. I mean, just about everything used 68ks, including not only the boxes you mention, but also many Unix flavours and even in devices that would now be termed embedded such as Cisco routers for instance. So you're right, from a processor standpoint, the classic Amigas were not special or different in any real meaningful way. It was the custom chip sets and the OS, along with third party hardware and software that set it apart from the pack, and all that we have left of that now is the OS.

Last edited by elatour on 09-Jun-2006 at 05:14 PM.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@elatour and all

It's very easy to underestimate the fact that it's the entire AmigaOS that is so special and that is the only point, no matter what hardware it runs on...

@Seehund

Quote:

Q: Piracy! A: That's not a "Q", or even a valid concern in this context. It's a conditioned reflex.

Not to mention this was the argument that Apple used for years, while they secretly worked to port their stuff to x86, and look at where they are now....on x86.

Quote:

Q: But AmigaOS can't support a bazillion x86 motherboards. A: Correct. And?

Again, this arguement was also used not only by Apple but also by Sun and look at where Sun is today...on x86.

Quote:

Q: But why drop PPC, when we're so close? A: Who said "drop PPC"? And who said "drop PPC NOW!"?

Why is it that we always come to that question when we discuss x86? Like you said, x86 advocates have never said such a thing, they simply want to know that this option has not ben ruled out and is a possibly for a future port, which Hyperion has ruled out time and time again. Before someone else mentions licensing, please don't. Hyperion is on record for saying this time and time again...ITS NOT DUE TO LICENSING REASONS, BUT BECAUSE THEY HATE X86 AND WON'T CODE FOR IT...PERIOD! AS A RESULT, THEY HAVE NEVER INQUIRED INTO OBTAINING AN X86 LICENSE, NOR WILL THEY, AT LEAST ACCORDING TO ROGUE (A.K.A. Hyperion).

Quote:

Q: But we'd have to compete with Windows, Linux, ... A: If you think AmigaOS would actually be competing with those, then it's competing with those regardless of hardware platform!

Good point! Add the embedded market to that too, where there are many established players out there already, including Microsoft.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...