Quote:

Also Bill confirmed; Fully committed to classic Amiga OS as a desktop OS.

Ok, so please tell me: what did A,Inc. do in the last 3 or 4 years for the "classic" AmigaOS...

I see nothing. Is that what you call "committment" ?

Leo.

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@Colin_Camper

Quote:

Colin_Camper wrote: I really can't understand how people are putting a negative spin on Bill McEwens answers.

It doesn't need any negative spin.

Quote:

Does the following make the situation seem more bleak or more hopeful than where we were last week?

Neither. The stuff that's not obvious BS (like OS5, OS6, "we're in negotiations", "we hope", "we expect", "good news" et c.) was already known or suspected.

Quote:

The OS4/Hardware impass : Bill McE -' We are positively trying to secure (ideally) two hardware platforms.'

"Positively trying", "hoping", "expecting", "ideally" et c. in a pep-speech, especially one emanating from any Amiga-related company, means nothing. If people didn't recognise marketese before, then shouldn't 6 years of AInc output have taught them something?

Run this through the anti-BS filter and it simply translates to: There is no hardware platform to run OS4 on.

"Two hardware platforms" was a nice touch though. :D It's like in Nigerian 419 scam e-mails, when they specify that your services are needed in order to transfer "$5,987,431 (five million nine-hundred and eighty-seven thousand four-hundred thirty-one US dollars ONLY)". God bless and felicitations, Bill!

Quote:

The Hyperion/OS4/Amiga Inc contract impass : Bill McE - ' We are trying to reach a settlement and are on friendly terms.'

That's supposed to make people hopeful? That there should be NO doubts whatsoever who actually owns, develops and has the right to sell AmigaOS should be the very least one could expect, surely? Not even this is clear now.

AInc and Hyperion, of all companies, are "trying to reach a settlement"! Yeah, that sure makes everyone feel warm all over...

Great news! Your house is on fire, and we're trying really hard to put it out! *dancing banana*

Quote:

Also Bill confirmed;

"Confirmed"? Man, that gives me flashbacks to AmigaOS articles written by a certain "journalist"...
Do not ever take anything that could possibly be in dispute to be "confirmed" when AInc say something! Never.

Quote:

Fully committed to classic Amiga OS as a desktop OS.

That's obviously BS, and not only contradicted by nearly every past action, statement, and historical fact, but even by statements in this very Q&A session.

Quote:

Still has regard for the classic Amiga community despite the vitreolic and sub human personal abuse from a few mentally sick individuals.

His ability to distinguish actions by one or a few nutjobs from the entire classic Amiga community is outright super-human!

Seriously, to me this doesn't make the outlook for AmigaOS any bleaker or more hopeful.

Quote:

Acknowledged mistakes such as the hopelessly optimistic schedules, coupons and other things.

And made the same type of, or even exactly the same, crazy predictions.
Personally I would regard the coupon thing as "acknowledged" if the promised money had been refunded when it was due.

Quote:

Come on people - let's hear some of the positive conclusions we can draw from all of this!

Well, at least we can be sure that nothing has improved, as expected. Being sure is something positive, I guess... :P

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Oh, bother.

@Colin_Camper
Sorry, but I work up this morning feeling *very* pessemistic about the whole OS4 thing - now that the reality has sunk in:

At the very best, the legal conflict between Hyperion & Amga Inc will delay the release of OS4 for some time - and going by past AI legal conflicts, that could be a year or more - unless one side actually gives in (which does not look likely IMHO). Alternatively Hyperion might go ahead and sell OS4 without Amiga Inc's agreement - and that could be even worse in the long run.

We have it confirmed that no-one has a license for an OS4 board, so far. And it appears that Troika is not even being considered for a license.

I could go on, but I don't want to spread my doom & gloom too much. Suffice to say, I have currently lost all interest in OS4 mobo news. The only thing which will interest me now is an OS4 mobo actually being available to buy - anything else is just more of the same old crap

So rather than worry about OS4, I am going to continue to happily use WinUAE, and work on my Amiga programming projects.

Last edited by ChrisH on 15-Sep-2006 at 10:50 AM.

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Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Colin_Camper

Quote:

I really can't understand how people are putting a negative spin on Bill McEwens answers.

It is very difficult to do such a thing. At the end of the day we just want to see actual results. New products, new advertising and new software.

Whilst I applaud Wayne's ability to get some questions asked and I feel surprised and grateful that Bill has taken the time to answer them I am still stunned as to just how much Amiga inc. 'doesn't get it'.

What we don't want - or indeed need - right now is another set of 'what might happen' answers when virtually all of the previous sets of answers given over the years have turned out as nonsense.

The reason being is that they hold no value. If you couldn't get anywhere near delivering on any promises from before - why should anyone believe any different now?

I think Gary said in one of his interviews that they would never announce anything unless it was done. This is a far better idea.

Also talk of OS5 and OS6 just looks comical.

I still don't see how Amiga Inc. are still alive. I still don't see how they are managing to make any money (must be purely DE - which in itself is quite an amazing feat) and I still don't see how they could possibly make a desktop Amiga any sort of a success without any visible road-map of how they plan to rebuild the user base.

Also - from what was said - I get no implication that the 'legal issues' are anywhere near being resolved. Also the lack of Troika as a licensee is also a strange thing to drop in just at the point as it looks like OS4 could be released. Also I believe there was some requirement of making over half a million US$ sales (I can't check this as Aorg appears to be down) which is way, way off the mark after 12 years of wilderness.

To me at least they are a very strange company.

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Sam

@-Sam-

Quote:

Also the lack of Troika as a licensee is also a strange thing to drop in just at the point as it looks like OS4 could be released.

I don't see that as strange at all. In this case I don't think it's AInc that has been misleading people. Also, some love to deceive themselves, which helps a great deal on this "market", it's built on religion and gullibility after all. False expectations have been built up by others, but anyone who believed the fluff should have asked themselves the bleedin' obvious question: "Why do they always avoid replying to the ONE question that unfortunately matters above all: do they have a licence?"

I get the impression that some people (not addressing you specifically, -Sam-) would have preferred AInc/McEwen to dodge that question and keep up that false facade along with all the others. Then what? Wait with telling the truth? For how long? The truth must come out sooner or later, in case Troika eventually would find some sufficiently functional hardware to sell, and once Hyperion should begin developing AmigaOS for it.

Quote:

Also I believe there was some requirement of making over half a million US$ sales (I can't check this as Aorg appears to be down) which is way, way off the mark after 12 years of wilderness.

That, and every other requirement, only goes for companies that aren't called "Eyetech" and haven't helped invent the licensing scheme. It's for your protection, don't think or ask questions, just buy something! :)

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Oh, bother.

It was GOOD.

Sometimes, if you don't like the answers, it's because the questions need to be
different.
Good to hear from Bill again. I hope he talks to us again.

I came away from reading Bill McEwen's answers with mixed feelings. Partly, I felt happier than I have felt in a while, regarding all things Amiga. Since my A4000 gave up the ghost months and months ago, I've spent less and less time on Amiga sites and more time elsewhere. Once new Amiga hardware is available, that will change.

On the other hand, there was no announcement of hardware currently being developed. No desktops, laptops, palmtops, etcetera. So while I'm happy to learn that Amiga, Inc. hasn't folded and is still a going concern, it's frustrating that it doesn't seem to be going anywhere in particular. As I pondered in my own question, (which didn't get asked) there seems to be no big break yet that will propel the Amiga name into the public's consciousness again.

I, too, would like to hear more from Amiga, Inc., and more frequently.

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@Colin_Camper

I see it as positive as well

@SvenHarvey

Quote:

Not sure what to think... I am wary of feeling positive personally - felt like that before and had my hopes dashed..

That's exactly the way I feel

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@Seehund

Quote:

I don't see that as strange at all. In this case I don't think it's AInc that has been misleading people.

I see your point of view. Lets hope that a real solution can still be realised.

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Sam

I've tried being positive to long. I'll be watching for it, but I'm not getting my hopes up again.

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@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

*Cough* ... I wouldnt say he was busy.. more half ####d and now bricking it saying "OH #### WAS I SUPPOSED TO GET THAT SORTED! WE ONLY HAVE ONE DAY TO GO!! ARRGGGHHH"

Good to see Mikey hasn't changed there then, oh such memories of organising WoASE & WoASE2!

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@Seehund

Honestly I almost never agree with Seehund. In this case though I think he is spot on.

Quote:

I really can't understand how people are putting a negative spin on Bill McEwens answers.

I'm an OS4 user. I have a MicroA1 that I love and I've been doing some limited development. I would like nothing better than to have OS4 finally released and to have hardware available. I find almost nothing positive about Bill's answers. All I see are more legal disputes and empty promises.

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Micro A1 866 Mhz and AmigaOS 4.1
PowerMac G4 1.4 Ghz and MorphOS 2.7

I just hope it works out for Hyperion after all the time they've put into OS4. It would suck to see that go to waste.

@Colin_Camper

Quote:

I really can't understand how people are putting a negative spin on Bill McEwens answers.

It's nice to see them acknowledge the community again. It feels like it's been quite a while since last time they noticed us.

I guess Bill's mention of OS5 being worked on so extensively for so long by internal Amiga engineers explains their web sites comment on "Please note, the development of future versions of the Amiga Operating System is not available for third party development or distribution." finally makes some sense. I never understood that and they never really explained it, it was just there for a long time. It's nice to have a clue. :)

But you have to take some things with a grain of salt. To go from wondering if they still exist to believing all sorts of wonderous things have been going on all along is a bit of a jump for some people. I also don't like how he said they responded to "every" OS4 license inquiry. I consider myself to be an exception to that statement and thus believe it to be false, and I don't understand the word game of putting quotes around every.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

You know, I don't normally agree with Seehund either

But some of his points are valid. I hate trying to decipher the Bean-Speak (tm) to get to any real information, and Bill's message was CHOCK FULL of it. blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda, synergy leverage core competency podcast knowledge transfe...

I mean, please. This is the Amiga community. We could give approximately 1/10 of a sh*t about their current marketing strategies, and honestly? I'm offended that he would treat US, community, this way after such a long hiatus. Blather on in press releases, advertisements and meetings, sure. But here?

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...wait... what?

@cope

> Why did Bill come forward? Are there that many of us that we present a huge
> market potential? Duh! I think he did it cause he actually cares.

I asked that very question, and the response I got was that he (Bill) [paraphrased because it's a private e-mail] "feels bad for the time away from responding to the community and that they got to a point where we (the community) were distracting them from their goals and they spent all [their] time playing on the forums, so a decision was made to become quiet and focus on getting [their] proverbial ducks in a row before [they] could handle the demands of the community."

Even way back then, when the AAC existed, there were murmurs that they "were spending too much time on the forums and not enough time on getting things done", so the fact that they disappeared -- while discouraging -- never came as a surprise. The fact that they not only survived but found funding however is a huge surprise.

I've said this before in the official thread on AO, but even though I helped to arrange this, and have no reasons to disbelieve Bill, I can't help but remain skeptical. Perhaps a better term would be "guardedly optimistic" as -- like everyone here -- I've gotten my hopes up before.

I'm more than happy to talk to him and to help serve as a makeshift moderator between Amiga Inc and the community. I have no reason to disbelieve him (because unlike other Bills I know, McEwen hasn't ever screwed me over), but I can't yet feel as though I haven't heard all of this before.

I'm suddenly wishing I'd been able to buy my Amiwest flight ticket a couple of months ago.

Wayne

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The new social network for Amiga Community Refugees
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@billt

It's nice to see them acknowledge the community again. It feels like it's been quite a while since last time they noticed us.

Hehe, guess he thought let's ignore them, maybe the just go away... Then he noticed we didn't go away.. Well not fast enough anyway.. Can't beat them, join them

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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@Wayne

Quote:

I asked that very question, and the response I got was that he (Bill) [paraphrased because it's a private e-mail] "feels bad for the time away from responding to the community and that they got to a point where we (the community) were distracting them from their goals and they spent all [their] time playing on the forums, so a decision was made to become quiet and focus on getting [their] proverbial ducks in a row before [they] could handle the demands of the community."

I have no idea why I'm posting this, since I know I will end up being doubted
and flamed the rest of the day as a result...
I can confirm this statement.
They -do- care. I've said it before, based on personal experience and private
conversations. And no...I will not elaborate on that.

Wrestling with similar issues here.
Happy to discuss solutions with you at any time. I'm usually in irc here.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 15-Sep-2006 at 04:28 PM.

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@Wayne

I'm interested to know (and suprised others haven't mentioned it before now) who they are planning to aquire? From #13 Bill stated:

Quote:

You will also see several releases of AmigaAnywhere on various platforms and companies partnerships that will drive us forward, and you will also see some company acquisitions, where we have purchased some other company assets.

That is most encouraging to think that Amiga have it in their sight (and the ability) to purchase other companies assets.